Better III with a wider lens?

Pythagorean · Dec 31, 2020

I’m thinking of picking up a Barnack Leica but I’d like a bit of advice before I blindly pull the trigger.. how convenient is it to use a small 28 or 35 Summaron with either the IIIf or IIIg? Is one better suited than the other? I know the IIIf is slightly smaller and that appeals to me, but is the larger finder on the IIIg suitable for say 35mm without a shoe-mount finder?
Any advice or first hand experience with either or both will be appreciated.

thanks!

Renato Tonelli · Dec 31, 2020

With any lens, other than a 50mm, you will need an external viewfinder in other to compose your image (the focusing frame on the Barnacks is for a 50mm angle of view). I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
I would say: pick a lens that suits your photography and then pick the corresponding viewfinder. It’s easy to get used to it; I have a Pentax 43mm lens and corresponding viewfinder on my IIIf.
Happy New Year.

BradS · Dec 31, 2020

If accurate framing is desired, the Barnack Leicas all require an additional (usually very expensive!) external viewfinder when any focal length other than 50mm is used.

Pythagorean · Dec 31, 2020

Ok, then I guess with an external finder the IIIg doesn’t have anything to offer beyond the IIIf, and it’s even a bit bigger. Unless I’m missing something that makes it an easy choice. Thanks, Happy New Year!

Sirius Glass · Dec 31, 2020

Skip the 35mm lens is too close to 50mm to make it useful, however the 28mm is far enough away from 50mm to be very useful and not so wide as to add distortions that cannot be seen with a range finder while composing and taking the photograph.

BAC1967 · Dec 31, 2020

The Summaron is one of my favorite lenses. I don’t think it matters what Barnack you put it on, just get one that’s in good condition, preferably with a CLA. I use a VIOOH finder but there are many others that will work just as well.

Leica IIIf with Summaron and a VIOOH universal viewfinder.

Leica IIIf Summaron 3.5cm f3.5 by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

a few examples with the Summaron.

Abandoned Oregon Farm House by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

Redscale Kodak Max 400

Smoke in Redscale by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

darkosaric · Dec 31, 2020

If you want smallest - then If or other LTM without viewfinder at all is the best way, you will be using external finder anyhow.

Pythagorean · Dec 31, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
Skip the 35mm lens is too close to 50mm to make it useful, however the 28mm is far enough away from 50mm to be very useful and not so wide as to add distortions that cannot be seen with a range finder while composing and taking the photograph.

Hi, do you mean that it is more difficult in some way to shoot a 35mm lens with a Barnack vs. a 28mm? Or just that the cost/benefit is not worth it with a focal length so close to 50mm? I currently have a M3 outfitted with a 35 goggled Summaron that I rarely grab because of the size/shape of the setup, though I do love the lens and the camera separately. I was hoping that a smaller camera/lens rig even with a external finder would be a more comfortable travel companion. The 28mm Summaron is a lens I’ve always wanted to try but I’m not yet familiar with the focal length. Do you consider a 28mm/35mm kit redundant?

Pythagorean · Dec 31, 2020

darkosaric said:
If you want smallest - then If or other LTM without viewfinder at all is the best way, you will be using external finder anyhow.

I should have been more clear, I will like to have a setup that I can carry easily anywhere but I also often photograph my family indoors with a tripod and slower shutter speeds with a self timer to minimize movement. Since the Barnacks lack a shutter release capability I will prefer a model with a Self timer.

Sirius Glass · Dec 31, 2020

Pythagorean said:
Hi, do you mean that it is more difficult in some way to shoot a 35mm lens with a Barnack vs. a 28mm? Or just that the cost/benefit is not worth it with a focal length so close to 50mm? I currently have a M3 outfitted with a 35 goggled Summaron that I rarely grab because of the size/shape of the setup, though I do love the lens and the camera separately. I was hoping that a smaller camera/lens rig even with a external finder would be a more comfortable travel companion. The 28mm Summaron is a lens I’ve always wanted to try but I’m not yet familiar with the focal length. Do you consider a 28mm/35mm kit redundant?

35mm is just not wide enough to make it worth having. It is just too close to 50mm. I could just step back about 10 feet and get the same thing. 28mm is wide enough that it is useful but not so wide that one has to keep it level to avoid distortion. For 35mm cameras I like the 20mm lens but it is of very limited use. I like 24mm lenses especially for interiors but if it must be kept level to avoid distortion. When I travel, if I am weight limited or space limited I first choose my 28mm and 50mm. I have not owned a 35mm lens for decades and when I had purchased one, shortly after I traded it in for the 28mm lens and never looked back.

Pythagorean · Dec 31, 2020

BAC1967 said:
Leica IIIf with Summaron and a VIOOH universal viewfinder.

Leica IIIf Summaron 3.5cm f3.5 by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

a few examples with the Summaron.

Abandoned Oregon Farm House by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

Redscale Kodak Max 400

Smoke in Redscale by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

lovely photos! I love the Summaron too and you’ve really flared up my GAS! All else aside that IIIf is a beautiful machine. In other news I’m now really interested in looking into beerinol!

Arthurwg · Dec 31, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
Skip the 35mm lens is too close to 50mm to make it useful, however the 28mm is far enough away from 50mm to be very useful and not so wide as to add distortions that cannot be seen with a range finder while composing and taking the photograph.

+1

R.Gould · Dec 31, 2020

Personally speaking the 35mm lens on a Barnack Leica, in my case either a iiic or iiif, is a nice lens, I like the combination, and for the old Leica's it is often considered the classic combination, I often use it, as for a Viewfinder, I use a russian made turret viewfinder, as I find even the 50mm viewfinder can be difficult due to it's size, these turret finders are not that expensive, I paid £29GBP for mine, and no problems, so I can use my 35,50,85 and 135 lenses, plus if you want to you can use a 28mm, with parralex correction

Pythagorean · Dec 31, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
35mm is just not wide enough to make it worth having. It is just too close to 50mm. I could just step back about 10 feet and get the same thing. 28mm is wide enough that it is useful but not so wide that one has to keep it level to avoid distortion. For 35mm cameras I like the 20mm lens but it is of very limited use. I like 24mm lenses especially for interiors but if it must be kept level to avoid distortion. When I travel, if I am weight limited or space limited I first choose my 28mm and 50mm. I have not owned a 35mm lens for decades and when I had purchased one, shortly after I traded it in for the 28mm lens and never looked back.

Awesome, thanks! I think I’ll try the IIIf with a 28 first then. I’ll keep the M3/35 combo for now and I can always pick up a 35 Ltm later if the 28 doesn’t suit me but for 2021 I think it’s time for a change of perspective!

madNbad · Dec 31, 2020

For a few years one of my favorite combinations was a IIIc with a Voigtlander 21 4.0 Color-Skopar. It was compact and the 21, even at medium apertures, kept focusing to a minimum. Only problem is the LTM versions are becoming harder to find.

darkosaric · Dec 31, 2020

What I use often as a second camera when traveling (Leica or Nikon as first) is some P&S, like Pentax Espio or Fujifilm P&S. It costs next to nothing, has a self timer, wide angle. For lens quality - Pentax Espio is best kept secret - cheap P&S with excellent lenses. You can give it a try, it will cost you like 20$ or even less.

Edit: here is how my travel kit looks like, it is really small:

reddesert · Dec 31, 2020

If you want to use a 35mm lens, use it. Perspective is a matter of taste. It's not always possible to step back 10 feet.

If you want to use a 35mm lens with a screw-mount rangefinder, there are Canon RFs that have a 35mm finder frameline built in. They are a bit larger than Barnack Leica bodies, but arguably they are smaller than Barnack Leica bodies with an extra viewfinder mounted on top.

darinwc · Dec 31, 2020

If you consider the extra height needed for a 35mm external viewfinder, a small slr becomes much more comparible. And you get easy loading, auto exposure, lenses longer than 135mm if you want them.

darinwc · Dec 31, 2020

The downside of the barnak style Canon cameras is that the viewfinder is horrible small. Smaller than the leica. More like a pinhole. If you have good sight, they might be ok.

reddesert · Dec 31, 2020

To clarify, if you want a 35mm frameline in a Canon RF camera, you need the non-Barnack style Canon RFs, I think a V, VI, P, or 7 will do. They are a bit larger than the Barnack Leicas, but they are a lot more affordable than M Leicas.

For this type of camera, it makes a lot of sense to choose a body that goes well with the focal lengths of lenses you expect to use.

Pythagorean · Jan 1, 2021

reddesert said:
To clarify, if you want a 35mm frameline in a Canon RF camera, you need the non-Barnack style Canon RFs, I think a V, VI, P, or 7 will do. They are a bit larger than the Barnack Leicas, but they are a lot more affordable than M Leicas.

I've considered the Canon P as it’s cheaper for sure, I already have a nice canon 35/2 I could mount on it, and I’ve heard good things about user experience/ergonomics with those too. I would like to get one to try out at some point but all else equal I’d like to pick up a III sooner rather than later in case the prices go the way of the M’s lately...

Huss · Jan 5, 2021

darkosaric said:
What I use often as a second camera when traveling (Leica or Nikon as first) is some P&S, like Pentax Espio or Fujifilm P&S. It costs next to nothing, has a self timer, wide angle. For lens quality - Pentax Espio is best kept secret - cheap P&S with excellent lenses. You can give it a try, it will cost you like 20$ or even less.

Edit: here is how my travel kit looks like, it is really small:
View attachment 262672

I use the Nikon LiteTouch AF. It has a superb 28mm lens and the camera is tiny.

Huss · Jan 5, 2021

Pythagorean said:
Awesome, thanks! I think I’ll try the IIIf with a 28 first then. I’ll keep the M3/35 combo for now and I can always pick up a 35 Ltm later if the 28 doesn’t suit me but for 2021 I think it’s time for a change of perspective!

If you're going with a 28mm (or wider lens) you do not even need an RF. You can very easily estimate the focus due to DOF. This allows you to go for an even smaller option - the Leica 1F:

Pythagorean · Jan 6, 2021

Huss said:
If you're going with a 28mm (or wider lens) you do not even need an RF. You can very easily estimate the focus due to DOF. This allows you to go for an even smaller option - the Leica 1F:

What?!? I never even considered the If, that’s a gorgeous setup you have there! And a great idea..

darkosaric · Jan 6, 2021

Huss said:
I use the Nikon LiteTouch AF. It has a superb 28mm lens and the camera is tiny.

Sometimes when I look prints from those small P&S - I ask myself why I have those Leicas, big SLR's and so on . I know the answer - because I can, but image quality from many cheap cameras equal the Leica glass, that is a fact.

Better III with a wider lens?

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