Best way to cut 35mm film to 2 x 16mm film?

xkaes · Nov 25, 2023

cannotShootStraight said:
It is pretty much as grainy as Kodak Double-X but the sharpness is better. Maybe D96 just sucks and makes everything grainy as hell.

The negative is so tiny you need a finer grain fine (see the SUBCLUB for details). When I want finer grain, I use Delta 100 or even slower film. Many submini camera users like MICROFILM. VERY fine grain and available in unperforated 16mm. Again, see the SUBCLUB for details.

cannotShootStraight · Nov 25, 2023

xkaes said:
It can, but is your film 16mm wide? If not, it may be getting "screwed up" moving from one cassette to the other.

Yes it was. But I figured maybe not exact enough at some areas. Kinda unreliable this process which I don't like. I would never trust it for important photos I feel like.

xkaes · Nov 25, 2023

The other possibilities are a warped cassette -- is yours a one-piece or two? Is it metal or plastic? Is it genuine?

Another issue is loading the film in the cassette. It has to be taped in straight. If not, it gets jammed. Try loading some film with the lights on and then advancing the film by hand -- OUTSIDE of the camera. Maybe the camera advance gear is messed up.

These cameras are usually very easy to reload and use.

And EXACTLY what film are you using?

cannotShootStraight · Nov 25, 2023

xkaes said:
The other possibilities are a warped cassette -- is yours a one-piece or two? Is it metal or plastic? Is it genuine?

Another issue is loading the film in the cassette. It has to be taped in straight. If not, it gets jammed. Try loading some film with the lights on and then advancing the film by hand -- OUTSIDE of the camera. Maybe the camera advance gear is messed up.

Don't think so as it worked fine before using Double-X. My guess still is that my setup using the match box and two blades is not accurate enough.

xkaes said:
And EXACTLY what film are you using?

Ilford HP5 in 35mm.

xkaes · Nov 25, 2023

cannotShootStraight said:
Ilford HP5 in 35mm.

So you are slitting 35mm down to 16mm? or some other width. Is your slitter producing 16mm wide film? Have you measured it? The problem may be your slitter or how you are using it.

Dustin McAmera · Nov 25, 2023

cannotShootStraight said:
What kind of cutter are you using?

I made a cutter myself for 127. It's the body of a dead folding camera, and I made a metal plate with a knife-blade mounted on it, which sits in the film gate and cuts the film and the backing paper as I wind it through. I have to wind the cut-down film onto a 127 spool afterwards, in a black bag. I also swithc the film to a backing paper with my own frame-numbers on it. IIRC, for the 4x6cm size I can just about make one set of the existing numbers work, but for the 3x4cm size they overlap in pairs by a little, so it's worth marking my own numbers. For a TLR, I also have to cut the film down for length as well; even if I left more film, the camera won't shoot past frame 12.
There was another complication: with some of my cameras I can get away with keeping the whole length of the 120 film; but then it doesn't fit in my Hewes stainless 127 reel. I can use a Paterson one, but in the end I cut a few mm out of each 'leg' of a 120 reel: I did a terrible job, but it works well enough unless I drop it on the floor.
I put up some photos of my device in the 127 group at flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/century_graphic/albums/72157594255549742
I quite enjoyed all the tinkering this took to get right. The main benefit is being able to use HP5.

Just a thought: if film cut down from 35mm isn't behaving itself, maybe it's stiffer (because thicker) than the 'real' 16mm stuff, and resisting curling up in the takeup side of the cassette? In that case, maybe it would be worth trying cutting from 120.

xkaes · Nov 25, 2023

Dustin McAmera said:
Just a thought: if film cut down from 35mm isn't behaving itself, maybe it's stiffer (because thicker) than the 'real' 16mm stuff, and resisting curling up in the takeup side of the cassette? In that case, maybe it would be worth trying cutting from 120.

Good thought, but I've used a wide variety of 35mm films -- cut to 16mm -- in lots of 16mm cameras without any problems due to thickness (and Minox & Hit cameras too!)

cannotShootStraight · Nov 25, 2023

xkaes said:
Many submini camera users like MICROFILM. VERY fine grain and available in unperforated 16mm.

Do you mean something like FUJI Microfilm Super HR-21?
I haven't seen it being available in reasonable quantities if at all. The site on sub club dates back to 1996.

xkaes · Nov 25, 2023

There's lots of microfilm floating around from Kodak, Fuji and others. For pictorial use, you have to expose it and develop it differently. Specifically test it -- which will give you a low ISO (ex. 10-100) and lower contrast (microfilm is high contrast film).

Goathill sells it.

guangong · Nov 25, 2023

xkaes said:
Goathill has these slitters -- using blades.

The design without blades is superior. Blades become dull.

lamerko · Nov 25, 2023

cannotShootStraight said:
This is Ilford HP5.
8min D96, 10min Fixing.

It is pretty much as grainy as Kodak Double-X but the sharpness is better. Maybe D96 just sucks and makes everything grainy as hell.

I think it was pushed at least two stops. If you use the readings of a built-in light meter with a selenium cell, be aware that they are very limited in low light and give erroneous readings.

cannotShootStraight · Nov 25, 2023

lamerko said:
think it was pushed at least two stops.

How do you come to that conclusion?

CineStill D96 Dev Chart

D96 is a low-contrast motion picture film developer. Development to a recommended gamma of 0.65 to 0.70 takes 5-8 minutes for most films exposed at their native ISO. Contrast can be controlled by shortening development times, and increasing the development time will result in added contrast...

cinestillfilm.com

ISO 400 => 8mins, that's what I did.

lamerko said:
If you use the readings of a built-in light meter with a selenium cell, be aware that they are very limited in low light and give erroneous readings.

Okay even if that's true, both pictures were shot during daylight. Actually around f/8.0 at 1/200 (something around that).

xkaes · Nov 25, 2023

The grain is inherent in the film. Different exposures or developers are not going to change it much. And with tiny negatives you are always going to have grain, but fine-grain films help -- but have lower ISOs.

lamerko · Nov 25, 2023

cannotShootStraight said:
How do you come to that conclusion?

At least at first glance, the large graininess in your examples points me there. True, the frame is small and emphasizes the grain, but still...

cannotShootStraight · Nov 26, 2023

lamerko said:
At least at first glance, the large graininess in your examples points me there. True, the frame is small and emphasizes the grain, but still...

I mean that's what I have been saying.

ic-racer · Nov 26, 2023

In the early 1980s I make a jig with some nails and about 2 feet of 5/8" aluminum to cut 16mm from 35mm. I only needed 2 feet at a time to load Minolta cartridges. In the dark I used a blade to cut on either side of the aluminum piece.

xkaes · Nov 26, 2023

Two feet? All you need is two INCHES!!! I'm glad you didn't work on the first moon rocket.

Dustin McAmera · Nov 26, 2023

A little bit ad hom there; with this guide, he can cut for width and length in one fell swoop.

I cut a wooden rail with a step along one edge, with the idea of using it to cut 127 film to length for my baby TLRs. I guess it's about the same length: I cut it to match the length of a 'real' 127 film, whatever that is.
If I cut a 120 roll down for width, there's a lot more length than on a 'real' 127 roll. The extra-long roll is too fat for some cameras; and my TLRs won't shoot beyond frame 12 anyway. So I made this rail; but I don't really have a dark space, other than my black bag, and I found it quite awkward in the confined space. In the end I settled for using the backing paper as my guide for length. This involves making a brave cut with scissors in the black bag.
I also found a bulk roll of 127-width colour film, and I cut that down the same way.
I talk about this in the present tense; it's years since I did this; I must dig the stuff out and do some more. I bet I'll get some interesting colours on what's left of that colour stuff...

xkaes · Nov 26, 2023

There are two inch film slitters that will cut 120 film into 127, or 127 PLUS 16mm, or 127 PLUS Minox. Same with 65mm or 70mm film.

Two to three foot film slitters? Thanks for giving me my first laugh of the day.

Dustin McAmera · Nov 26, 2023

xkaes said:
Two to three foot film slitters?

Where did you get three foot from? And when you cut any of these formats, how do you cut to length?

MattKing · Nov 26, 2023

The guide and measuring jig that ic-racer made is two feel long - the length of film he wanted.

xkaes · Nov 26, 2023

I know plenty of people who have made very simple film cutters using a piece of 2x4 with markers & holders to use it in the dark. These can make sense for occasional short strips of submini film. HIT cameras, for example, only need about a foot of film, so this approach can make some sense, but cutting long rolls, such as127 film from 120 film, using this approach is another story. A film slitter the size of a pack of cigarettes is all you need.

Dustin McAmera · Nov 26, 2023

My cutter, described earlier, is in a light-proof camera body, so I can do the winding in daylight, and the cut film is on a spool, and convenient to transfer to a proper 127 spool in the black bag.
But you still didn't explain what you do about cutting the film to length, which is so much better than a strip of wood or aluminium.

cannotShootStraight · Nov 27, 2023

xkaes said:
A film slitter the size of a pack of cigarettes is all you need.

I am not sure how to operate this slitter. What is the purpose of the screws on the side? Are they just holding the blades?
And to slice a film roll you first lay the film ontop of the blades, then press the black plate from the top and pull the film through?

xkaes · Nov 27, 2023

cannotShootStraight said:
And to slice a film roll you first lay the film ontop of the blades, then press the black plate from the top and pull the film through?

I know it sounds impossible, but that's all there is too it.

Best way to cut 35mm film to 2 x 16mm film?

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