Best 9x12 folding plate camera to start

Steve Smith · Sep 24, 2008

gandolfi said:
Today I just got a Bergheil 9x12 in a beautiful condition!!

I have just done a bit of a search on Bergheil and unless I am mistaken, I think I have one.

I certainly have a similar camera with the spring loaded lens release mechanism. Mine didn't come with a lens or its associated mounting plate but I'm sure the catch on the body is the same. Can you post a close up of this area so I can compare them?

Steve.

Ian Grant · Sep 25, 2008

Steve, there were about 30 different manufacturers producing very similar looking cameras, mainly in Germany, up until the end of the 1930's. Some of them use common parts, or possibly copied parts.

It would be better to post some images of your camera.

Ian

Steve Smith · Sep 25, 2008

Ian Grant said:
Steve, there were about 30 different manufacturers producing very similar looking cameras, mainly in Germany, up until the end of the 1930's. Some of them use common parts, or possibly copied parts.

You are right. I have two or three of these but only one has the catch for a quick release lens plate.

I forgot to look at it last night though.

I was going to make a plate to permanently fit to the front but if there is a possibility of making a plate which works with this catch, I might give it a go (after I finished the hundreds of other things I have started or thought about doing!).

Steve.

Ian Grant · Sep 25, 2008

Steve, I have noticed at least two UK sellers on ebay who quite obviously strip the lenses off 9x12cm cameras and sell them separately, a good the lens on it's own sells for far more than a complete 9x12 camera, in the UK.

Somewhere I have an image of a non-Voightlander 9x12 which took interchangeable lenses, with a bayonet mount. My guess though is if yours is a Bergheil someone sold the original lens for 5x4 use. My Rodenstock camera with an excellent Eurynar cost me around £30, currently 2 Eurynars are on Ebay for £120 +£125.

Ian

Steve Smith · Sep 25, 2008

Ian Grant said:
My guess though is if yours is a Bergheil someone sold the original lens for 5x4 use.

That would be my guess too even if it isn't a Bergheil as I bought it without a lens.

I had planned to make it into a simple, lightweight 5x4 camera with a basic film holder and use a modified film holder with a ground glass for focussing but as I have a few holders which fit it and it's original ground glass viewer, I may keep it as it is.

I did buy another, similar camera without the lens mount which was not in good condition. I bought it for the lens, a Zeiss 135mm Tessar, to use on my home made 5x4. Despite reports to the contrary, it does cover 5x4 with limited movements. This lens could be put back to use on a 9x12cm camera.

Another interesting thing I found was that all of my 9x12cm film (glass plate actually) holders were fitted with supplementary holders to take 2" x 3" plates.

Steve.

Ian Grant · Sep 25, 2008

The 135mm f4.5 Tessar was very common on 9x12 cameras usually on the top of the range models, only really Voightlander and other camera/lens manufacturers like Rodenstock & Goerz didn't use thems. They were also often fitted on 5x4 Speed/Crown Graphics, they do cover 5x4 but edge/corner sharpness is poor until f16 and best at f22.

Ian

gandolfi · Sep 27, 2008

Steve Smith said:
I have just done a bit of a search on Bergheil and unless I am mistaken, I think I have one.

I certainly have a similar camera with the spring loaded lens release mechanism. Mine didn't come with a lens or its associated mounting plate but I'm sure the catch on the body is the same. Can you post a close up of this area so I can compare them?

Steve.

hi steve.
here are two images for you.
the first is the frontplate of the Bergheil. The second, the back of the lens..

Hope that was what you was asking about. (?)

emil

Mark Layne · Sep 28, 2008

Zeiss Ideal, Favorit, Juwel and others all had removeable lenses but a photograph of the camera would easily identify it. The Zeiss lenses have two bayonet ears extending outside the shutter housing, the Bergheil uses a flange behind the shutter.
Mark

elekm · Sep 29, 2008

I have a Zeiss Ikon Miroflex, which is a fairly amazing camera:

Reflex viewing, a focal plane cloth shutter with speeds to 1/2000 and an interchangeable lens (with some effort). The standard lens is a 15cm Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar.

Of course, the challenge is to find one that doesn't need new curtains, is working on all speeds and has a ground glass screen and focusing hood intact.

Otherwise, great camera.

Soeren · Nov 20, 2008

Hmm Did I post this link to a site on some Voigtländer plate and roll filmcameras
http://www.cinci.de/index.html

kind regards

dhosten · Dec 1, 2010

Even though I am a happy Voigtlander Avus owner, I'd have to say if I was starting over, I would consider the Zeiss Ideal 250/7 (9x12) just for the drop bed feature. The Voigtlander Bergheil is a great investment as the lens alone is worth good money and people will pay for the reputation.

JPD · Jan 8, 2011

Ole said:
No Ian, the film emulsion will be 0.3mm farther back than the plate emulsion when using film sheath inserts.

The adapter is there to hold the film flat and in place, but the folded-over edges mean that the emulsion is offset by 0.3mm.

The film sheaths I have let the film rest on the guides in the holders, and the folded-over edges stays free, so there's no offset. Film sheaths were probably manufactured to fit certain holders.

Best 9x12 folding plate camera to start

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