Beginner with a Yashica FX-3 Super 2000 How can I really understand and control Depth of Field on film?

[Pedroga]

I have a Yashica FX-3 Super 2000, and I’m a complete beginner in analog photography (honestly, photography in general).

I’m trying to properly understand Depth of Field, but here’s my main problem:

the viewfinder doesn’t show changes in real time, so I have no idea how the photo will actually look on film. It feels like the result could be either a horribly blurry mess or a perfect shot — and right now it’s basically luck.

I tried a few Depth of Field simulator websites, but I’m not sure I fully understood how to apply that information in real life.

My lens has that distance and depth-of-field scale (kind of like a ruler), and I was told it’s used to “calculate” or estimate DoF. I want to learn how to use this properly and professionally, not just guess and hope it works.

For example:

• I want to take a portrait where the person in front of me is completely sharp and the background is blurred.
• I want to take a wide landscape where everything is sharp, even people in the scene.
• Or even a portrait with the background also in focus.

Right now, my understanding is something like this:

For a portrait, I should open the aperture to around f/5, use a 50mm lens, focus at about 1.5 meters, and shoot.

But I honestly don’t know if I’m on the right track or just repeating things without really understanding them.

How do you actually learn to predict and control Depth of Field on a fully manual film camera like this, before pressing the shutter?

ML Zoom 35-70mm F/3.5-4.8 Lente C/Y

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ic-racer]

Choose another camera. One that has a depth of field preview button. Though, I have five FX-3 and can say I never missed having a DOF preview button.

 

[wiltw]

Commonly understood principles...

1. Controlling (and understanding) DOF is no different on film than it is for a digital camera
2. DOF is always 'thinner' with a larger aperture (smaller number in f/-stop) than smaller aperture
3. DOF is always 'thinner' at really close subject distances than at really far subject distances

Commonly not understood...

1. DOF tables and DOF marks on lenses most usually have poorer basis, in the human eye's actual abililty to detect what is 'not in focus'...most eyes actually see LESS DOF than the DOF tables and lens marks lead you be believe. This is often referred to as 'manufacturer standard' DOF calculation, but the average person has better visual acuity than that poor assumption.
2. DOF tables and lens marks assume you are looking at an enlargement which is 8x10" from about 10" away. If you make a different size print, and/or view it from any other distance other than the diagonal measure of the print, the DOF tables and scales will NOT APPLY!
   A smaller print will seem to have more 'in focus', while a larger print will seem to have less 'in focus', at the same viewing distance.
3. If you crop the image to smaller than the full image of the original camera frame, DOF calculations applying to that image will be invalidated.
4. If you shoot with different FL lenses, and if your camera is proportionally farther away with longer FL, the DOF will be THE SAME!!!
   ● the portrait shot with 50mm FL at f/4 at subject distance of 5' will have manufacturer standard DOF zone which is 0.75'
   ● the portrait shot with 100mm FL at f/4 at subject distance of 10' will have manufacturer standard DOF zone which is 0.75'
   ● the portrait shot with 200mm FL at f/4 at subject distance of 20' will have manufacturer DOF zone which is 0.75'

Having stated the above, as the reality of DOF, responding to each of your bulleted quesions in sequence...

• Take the portrait with a fairly large aperture (small f/number), focus on the subject's eyes...the eyes will be in perfect focus, things that are near to the plane of the eyes will SEEM TO BE in focus, and things far behind will be more blurry (out of focus). For someone with 20/20 vision looking at an 8x10" print from 10" away the portrait shot with 100mm FL at f/4 at subject distance of 10' will have manufacturer standard DOF zone which is 0.75', but the usual person with usual visual acuity will perceive that things outside a DOF zone of 0.25' are out of focus (blurry)
• Take the wide landscape with a smaller aperture, focus on the people (about the center depth of the group, if they stand at different distances from you) with a smaller aperture (like f/11), and things closer and farther back will be 'in focus'. If you can stand 25' away from the group, things will appear to be 'in focus' from about 20-40', even though manufacturer standard will lead you to think that the DOF zone is about 12' - Infinity!
• You will NOT be able to shoot a portrait with the background 'in focus'...with 50mm lens at f/11 even if you are taking a full length 'portrait' from 25' away, your eyes will tell you that the DOF zone is about 18' - 39', even though manufacturer standard will lie to you about the DOF zone being 12' - Infinity

The DOF preview button will give you a better idea of the final shot DOF, but it is never an accurate representation! And hyperfocal distance calculations are of limited value in understanding what will be 'in focus' in a shot.

 

[mshchem]

I have a Yashica FX-3 Super 2000, and I’m a complete beginner in analog photography (honestly, photography in general).

I’m trying to properly understand Depth of Field, but here’s my main problem:

the viewfinder doesn’t show changes in real time, so I have no idea how the photo will actually look on film. It feels like the result could be either a horribly blurry mess or a perfect shot — and right now it’s basically luck.

I tried a few Depth of Field simulator websites, but I’m not sure I fully understood how to apply that information in real life.

My lens has that distance and depth-of-field scale (kind of like a ruler), and I was told it’s used to “calculate” or estimate DoF. I want to learn how to use this properly and professionally, not just guess and hope it works.

For example:

• I want to take a portrait where the person in front of me is completely sharp and the background is blurred.
• I want to take a wide landscape where everything is sharp, even people in the scene.
• Or even a portrait with the background also in focus.

Right now, my understanding is something like this:

For a portrait, I should open the aperture to around f/5, use a 50mm lens, focus at about 1.5 meters, and shoot.

But I honestly don’t know if I’m on the right track or just repeating things without really understanding them.

How do you actually learn to predict and control Depth of Field on a fully manual film camera like this, before pressing the shutter?

ML Zoom 35-70mm F/3.5-4.8 Lente C/Y

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Test shots, review film, repeat. Keep good notes.
Experience, even DOF preview can be vexing

 

[Don_ih]

Depth of field is on your lens.

 

[Pedroga]

Choose another camera. One that has a depth of field preview button. Though, I have five FX-3 and can say I never missed having a DOF preview button.

I just bought this camera and I really miss having a depth-of-field preview button.

Commonly understood principles...

1. Controlling (and understanding) DOF is no different on film than it is for a digital camera
2. DOF is always 'thinner' with a larger aperture (smaller number in f/-stop) than smaller aperture
3. DOF is always 'thinner' at really close subject distances than at really far subject distances

Commonly not understood...

1. DOF tables and DOF marks on lenses most usually have poorer basis, in the human eye's actual abililty to detect what is 'not in focus'...most eyes actually see LESS DOF than the DOF tables and lens marks lead you be believe. This is often referred to as 'manufacturer standard' DOF calculation, but the average person has better visual acuity than that poor assumption.
2. DOF tables and lens marks assume you are looking at an enlargement which is 8x10" from about 10" away. If you make a different size print, and/or view it from any other distance other than the diagonal measure of the print, the DOF tables and scales will NOT APPLY!
   A smaller print will seem to have more 'in focus', while a larger print will seem to have less 'in focus', at the same viewing distance.
3. If you crop the image to smaller than the full image of the original camera frame, DOF calculations applying to that image will be invalidated.
4. If you shoot with different FL lenses, and if your camera is proportionally farther away with longer FL, the DOF will be THE SAME!!!
   ● the portrait shot with 50mm FL at f/4 at subject distance of 5' will have manufacturer standard DOF zone which is 0.75'
   ● the portrait shot with 100mm FL at f/4 at subject distance of 10' will have manufacturer standard DOF zone which is 0.75'
   ● the portrait shot with 200mm FL at f/4 at subject distance of 20' will have manufacturer DOF zone which is 0.75'

Having stated the above, as the reality of DOF, responding to each of your bulleted quesions in sequence...

• Take the portrait with a fairly large aperture (small f/number), focus on the subject's eyes...the eyes will be in perfect focus, things that are near to the plane of the eyes will SEEM TO BE in focus, and things far behind will be more blurry (out of focus). For someone with 20/20 vision looking at an 8x10" print from 10" away the portrait shot with 100mm FL at f/4 at subject distance of 10' will have manufacturer standard DOF zone which is 0.75', but the usual person with usual visual acuity will perceive that things outside a DOF zone of 0.25' are out of focus (blurry)
• Take the wide landscape with a smaller aperture, focus on the people (about the center depth of the group, if they stand at different distances from you) with a smaller aperture (like f/11), and things closer and farther back will be 'in focus'. If you can stand 25' away from the group, things will appear to be 'in focus' from about 20-40', even though manufacturer standard will lead you to think that the DOF zone is about 12' - Infinity!
• You will NOT be able to shoot a portrait with the background 'in focus'...with 50mm lens at f/11 even if you are taking a full length 'portrait' from 25' away, your eyes will tell you that the DOF zone is about 18' - 39', even though manufacturer standard will lie to you about the DOF zone being 12' - Infinity

The DOF preview button will give you a better idea of the final shot DOF, but it is never an accurate representation! And hyperfocal distance calculations are of limited value

I think I more or less understand it now, but in practice I wouldn’t be able to do this with my lens since it only goes up to 70mm, right?

Depth of field is on your lens.

Where is it on my lens, and how do I use the scale on my lens?

 

[MattKing]

If it is this lens, I don't thing there are any Depth of Field scales on it.
https://lens-db.com/yashica-ml-35-70mm-f35-48-1986/

I think I more or less understand it now, but in practice I wouldn’t be able to do this with my lens since it only goes up to 70mm, right?

There is a noticeable difference in the depth of field characteristics of your lens between using it at 35mm and at 70mm.
And once you have a little more experience with this, you will find that you can really notice the differences between depth of field at 35mm, 50mm and 70mm - at least near the f/3.5 end of the aperture range.

 

[wiltw]

Telephoto FL does have less DOF than use of WA FL at the same camera position, as the subject is larger with tele FL and the blur circles away from the plane of focus are more readily seen away from the plane of focus.

BUT Iif you shoot with different FL lenses, and if your camera is proportionally farther away with longer FL and the subject identically sized in all shots, and the DOF will be THE SAME!!!
● the portrait shot with 50mm FL at f/4 at subject distance of 5' will have manufacturer standard DOF zone which is 0.75'
● the portrait shot with 100mm FL at f/4 at subject distance of 10' will have manufacturer standard DOF zone which is 0.75'
● the portrait shot with 200mm FL at f/4 at subject distance of 20' will have manufacturer DOF zone which is 0.75'

 

[Pedroga]

If it is this lens, I don't thing there are any Depth of Field scales on it.
https://lens-db.com/yashica-ml-35-70mm-f35-48-1986/
View attachment 417702



There is a noticeable difference in the depth of field characteristics of your lens between using it at 35mm and at 70mm.
And once you have a little more experience with this, you will find that you can really notice the differences between depth of field at 35mm, 50mm and 70mm - at least near the f/3.5 end of the aperture range.

This is exactly my lens.