Beginner MF for slide film - 645 vs 67?

[Roger Cole]

If you're mostly interested in projection, I'd go with 645 or Super Slide. If you print or scan and print, 6x7 would be my choice.

If you are unsure, or like the freedom to choose after the fact, Mamiya RB 6x7, Hasselblad, and probably Bronica all have backs that will give you Super Slides when you want, and 6x6 or 6x7 if you prefer. Best of both worlds.

I was also going to suggest one of the 4x4cm twin lens reflex cameras, but you'd want to research 127 slide film first. I shoot occasionally with a Yashica 44, but only B&W and I order Efke film from Freestyle but I haven't checked the availability of color.

JD

You haven't bought any 127 Efke in a while, have you? Because it hasn't been offered in a while, since Efke went under and they sold out.

You can get film made by Maco and repacked to 127 in Japan and you can get color neg that is Portra cut down and repackaged in Canada. There's a thread about this that I was in recently after inheriting my mother's 127 Brownie. But I'm not aware of any slide film. You could probably reversal process the black and white.

 

[tomfrh]

pentaxuser's comment is most relevant if you limit your slide projection to just an 8" x 10" screen!

Actually, I think he is commenting as much about how good 35mm projection systems can be, rather than any perceived problem with MF projection.

In addition, historically there was a long period of time when the arguably best film for projection - Kodachrome - was only available in 35mm.

If you are projecting (enlarging) to "a few metres across", there is a visible difference between 6x4.5 and 35mm. You might see more of that difference though if you use a good screen rather than a painted wall.

Yes, I'm quite amazed at how good 35mm projection is! If that was as good as it gets I'd be more than satisfied. When I first projected some of my mother and grandfather's slide I was stunned. I'd never seen slides before and was blown away by it. I couldn't believe everyone gave that up in exchange for chemist shop prints and digital images!

Anyway, I'm glad to hear there is a visible difference between 6x4.5 and 35mm, as I don't want to spend money and increase my clutter for no gain!

 

[jadphoto]

You haven't bought any 127 Efke in a while, have you? Because it hasn't been offered in a while, since Efke went under and they sold out.

You can get film made by Maco and repacked to 127 in Japan and you can get color neg that is Portra cut down and repackaged in Canada. There's a thread about this that I was in recently after inheriting my mother's 127 Brownie. But I'm not aware of any slide film. You could probably reversal process the black and white.

Good to know...thanks for the update.

JD

 

[outwest]

There is very little visual impact difference to the viewer between 35mm and 6x4.5. (True, the image quality of the 6x4.5 is better but that is lost on the majority of viewers.) For the wow factor you need to put up a square, screen filling image from a 6x6. The best use for 6x4.5 is to use the little accessory cutter Mamiya made to cut super slides in one stroke out of them. Throw a super slide into a 35mm show and watch the response from the viewers. I have numerous 35mm cameras and 4 projectors, and 3 6x4.5 and 4 6x6 cameras and 3 projectors. I've done more than a few slide programs for large groups. I also have several 6x9 cameras and use a boardroom lantern slide projector for them, but, that is a whole other ballgame.

 

[tomfrh]

There is very little visual impact difference to the viewer between 35mm and 6x4.5. (True, the image quality of the 6x4.5 is better but that is lost on the majority of viewers.) For the wow factor you need to put up a square, screen filling image from a 6x6. The best use for 6x4.5 is to use the little accessory cutter Mamiya made to cut super slides in one stroke out of them. Throw a super slide into a 35mm show and watch the response from the viewers. I have numerous 35mm cameras and 4 projectors, and 3 6x4.5 and 4 6x6 cameras and 3 projectors. I've done more than a few slide programs for large groups. I also have several 6x9 cameras and use a boardroom lantern slide projector for them, but, that is a whole other ballgame.

I'm completely confused now!

Some of you are saying projected 6x4.5 will look a lot better than projected 35mm, others are saying there's very little difference!

Tom

 

[MattKing]

I'm completely confused now!

Some of you are saying projected 6x4.5 will look a lot better than projected 35mm, others are saying there's very little difference!

Tom

Tom:

The answer to your question depends greatly on your audience.

People who see and appreciate the clear difference between digital projection and 35mm projection are much more likely to appreciate the difference between 35mm and 6x4.5 projected.

Of course, some people just won't notice.

I cannot guarantee that everybody you show slides to will notice the difference. But I would, and you might too.

Part of the difficulty with your question is that we rarely have an opportunity to compare the two formats side by side. When the 35mm slides are well exposed and well projected, the viewing experience is excellent. So it is difficult to conclude that it is deficient in some way. But one can conclude that something else is even better.

outwest is correct - fill that square screen with a projected super slide and it will really stand out. But that is mostly due to the filling the screen. If you accomplish that with a 6x6 slide, it will be even better.

One thing I can say for sure. A projected 6x4.5 or 6x6 transparency is a lot more impressive than one viewed with a loupe, and a lot easier to share with others. That is reason enough for me to project them.

 

[Roger Cole]

There is very little visual impact difference to the viewer between 35mm and 6x4.5. (True, the image quality of the 6x4.5 is better but that is lost on the majority of viewers.) For the wow factor you need to put up a square, screen filling image from a 6x6. The best use for 6x4.5 is to use the little accessory cutter Mamiya made to cut super slides in one stroke out of them. Throw a super slide into a 35mm show and watch the response from the viewers. I have numerous 35mm cameras and 4 projectors, and 3 6x4.5 and 4 6x6 cameras and 3 projectors. I've done more than a few slide programs for large groups. I also have several 6x9 cameras and use a boardroom lantern slide projector for them, but, that is a whole other ballgame.

It doesn't make any sense that a superslide would be more impressive compared to 35mm than a 6x4.5 one. The 6x4.5 one is larger in BOTH dimensions than the superslide, slightly so on the short side but 50% bigger on the long side. The only real difference would indeed be the one Matt mentioned, filling a square screen.

I have a nice projection screen but when I built my home theater I was going to use that paint that's designed to make a screen out of your wall. It's expensive. My buddy doing some of the work talked me into trying plain oyster shell white paint first. I did and then threw some slides on it, side by side with my screen. I'll be... I honestly could not tell the difference. So I just use the same painted wall now that normally serves as the screen for my home theater. When I want to show slides I just get out the slide projector.

 

[AgX]

As far as I know, no one is currently making 6x7 slide mounts, which would be a slight problem. Of course you can always crop 6x7 negatives to 6x6 if you plan accordingly.

At least two manufacturers still offer 6x7 mounts.

GEPE and Kunze

 

[guangong]

6x7 slide mount availability

Not long ago i spoke to Gepe. Unfortunatly，they are no longer manufacturing 6 x 7 glass slide mounts . Glassless plastic mounts are available from a korean manufacturer and are sold on the big auction site. I have about 60 glass mounts which should last my lifetime for pics worth mounting in glass.
As for the projector，a Leitz Prado 500 or its rebadged Hasselblad twin （crackle vs shiny）were designed to handle 6x7 slides. The trick is finding the dual 6x6 6x7 slide carrier. This is an all manual projector.
Usually I shoot 6x6 with Hassy，Rolleiflextlr，or Super ikonta B. When 6x7 i use Fuji gf670. I shoot both b/w and color slides.
My advice：do whatever gives you pleasure. This is a great advantage over the“professional” and gives greater freedom.

 

[BrianShaw]

Roger, it may not make arithmetic sense to you, but the difference was quite real to my audiences. Interesting how some can see a difference and some cannot. Kinda like how hi-def TV is just TV to some.

 

[GRHazelton]

Another consideration might be the "Super slide" format which is 4x4 cm, these can be used in a standard 35mm projector. They are very impressive compared to standard 35 slides.
Super slide backs for Hasselblads are very cheap, though it's not a particularly economic use of the 120 roll film image area. The backs give you 16 frames on a roll of 120. Or you could always crop to that size using a 645 or whatevef.

The problem with Super Slides is the availability of film. It is practically non-extant. I used my Komaflex S for Super Slides back in the day; I'd have the camera repaired today if there were a decent choice of film at reasonable prices.

 

[BrianShaw]

Yes, that is the problem with the whole concept... Unfortunately. The good old days of slides and slide shows are a good but distant memory.

 

[tomfrh]

Yes, that is the problem with the whole concept... Unfortunately. The good old days of slides and slide shows are a good but distant memory.

Not for me! I only just started shooting slides. I'm late to the party perhaps, but I intend to enjoy what's left!

 

[tomfrh]

Ok, I've decided I'll start with a 645 camera - most likely a pentax 645n.

Regarding projectors, are 6x45 projectors and 6x6 projectors the same thing? Any recommendations? I'm thinking of a rollei p66, which a lot of people mention.

Tom

 

[AgX]

I know of no 6x4.5 projector. Just use a 6x6 projector.

 

[Alan Gales]

Back in the 80's I was a member of St. Louis Camera Club. We used to project our 35mm slides with a Kindermann projector for critique. Occasionally they would project a super slide and the audience would ooh and awe at the sight.

I was recently a member of another club that used a digital projector. It was awful. My old 1980's Kodak carousal projector with Schneider lens completely blew it away.

 

[MattKing]

Ok, I've decided I'll start with a 645 camera - most likely a pentax 645n.

Regarding projectors, are 6x45 projectors and 6x6 projectors the same thing? Any recommendations? I'm thinking of a rollei p66, which a lot of people mention.

Tom

The exterior dimension of the slide mounts is the same for 6x6 and 6x4.5 slides, so any projector that will take one will take the other.

If you have a selection of projectors available to you, make enquiries about the included lens. Some are better than others, although the fairly basic ones tend to be good for moderate size rooms.

There are some lenses available that are designed to be usable only for large (auditorium size) rooms. Lenses like that are accessories, rather than general purpose. Try to get something between 120mm and 150mm. Remember, the shorter the lens, the larger (and dimmer) the projected image.

 

[outwest]

The Rollei P66 is a good choice. You may even be able to find a bargain in a P11 which will give you the ability to project 6x6, 35 (and superslide) all in one. I'll attach the Rollei guide to lenses/projection distance/screen size which you may find useful in your selection.

 

[tomfrh]

The Rollei P66 is a good choice. You may even be able to find a bargain in a P11 which will give you the ability to project 6x6, 35 (and superslide) all in one. I'll attach the Rollei guide to lenses/projection distance/screen size which you may find useful in your selection.

Thanks for the info. I think I'll get a Rollei 66.

 

[destroya]

my local camera store today had a pretty good condition rollei P66S projector with the basic lens and one cartridge and the wired remote for $99. good deals can be found if you get lucky

 

[tomfrh]

my local camera store today had a pretty good condition rollei P66S projector with the basic lens and one cartridge and the wired remote for $99. good deals can be found if you get lucky

If only I could find a deal like that!

The best I can find is $400 on ebay.

 

[Chris Livsey]

E-bay Germany always has a selection but I suspect the carriage could be the killer.

 

[sanjayc]

Gepe still makes the 6x7 slides - both glassless and glass . They do not seem to be available in US. they can be ordered from their website and are shipped from Germany. Its the 54 x68 slide mount .

 

[sanjayc]

https://www.gepe.com/website/index.asp?pageID=276

https://www.gepe.com/website/index.asp?pageID=268