Beginner darkroom questions... Tips and tricks welcome!

[winger]

The 4 bladed 11"x14"/14"x17" easels (Saunders are common) are great, but unless you get lucky on Craigslist, expensive.

Yes, expensive, but worth it, imo. I bought an 11x14 one new in the late 90s and it's still great. I've used other types in school darkrooms and the Saunders is way better.

 

[Fraunhofer]

This is all very, very good advice from people who probably all have more experience than I have, but:

Don't get hung up in assembling the perfect enlarger, with the perfect lens and spend days and days restoring everything to perfect working order, and getting the perfect combo of chemistry,etc.

Instead start printing!

It is very easy to overthink, but very hard to over-do, with emphasis on "do". I always learn something useful in a printing session.

You will make mistakes no matter what, so why not get started with that?

 

[MattKing]

This is all very, very good advice from people who probably all have more experience than I have, but:

Don't get hung up in assembling the perfect enlarger, with the perfect lens and spend days and days restoring everything to perfect working order, and getting the perfect combo of chemistry,etc.

Instead start printing!

It is very easy to overthink, but very hard to over-do, with emphasis on "do". I always learn something useful in a printing session.

You will make mistakes no matter what, so why not get started with that?

This is very good advice!

 

[saman13]

This is all very, very good advice from people who probably all have more experience than I have, but:

Don't get hung up in assembling the perfect enlarger, with the perfect lens and spend days and days restoring everything to perfect working order, and getting the perfect combo of chemistry,etc.

Instead start printing!

It is very easy to overthink, but very hard to over-do, with emphasis on "do". I always learn something useful in a printing session.

You will make mistakes no matter what, so why not get started with that?

Yeah, this is definitely good advice. That’s always been an issue I’ve had with film photography because everything has a measurable cost.
But, you’re right. I have all the gear I need RIGHT NOW to start printing so I should get learning. I’ll make mistakes but whatever. Printing is more fun than reading, anyway.
I’m hoping one of the nikons I have listed will sell soon so I can use that to cover the cost of the chems!

 

[saman13]

Well, last night while replacing the rack and pinion mechanism so I could raise and lower the enlarger, I completely stripped one of the rusted out screws. When I went to the hardware store to get a replacement (and an extractor bit), the employee there that helped me out asked what I needed it for and I told him it was for an old enlarger. Well, we got started talking and turns out he work as a graphic design teacher for a local high school and used to be a part of their darkroom program. When I mentioned I was still needing an easel, he told me he had inherited a bunch of enlargers and other darkroom gear from local darkrooms that had closed. He had me give him my number and said he would put together a package of gear to give me as long as I'd put it to good use.

Seriously cool! And what a coincidence running running into him.

 

[tedr1]

About the Ansel Adams books............................while they have much valuable content they should be approached with several things in mind

he was writing a long time ago
he was shooting sheet film, mostly 4x5, each sheet was developed individually to obtain optimum results, this isn't possible with roll films (35mm, 120)
he was working in the era before high quality variable contrast (multi-grade) papers were established, he was using graded papers, which are not ideal beginner material

 

[Robin Guymer]

Hi Sam, Like you I have moved on from F2 repairs to mucking around in the darkroom. So here are a few tips and tricks that I adapted to my setup in a basement room that has no easy access to water and drainage. (see attached photos) To solve this first problem I ran in a water pipe and fitted a tap to that. But with no possible connection to drainage I just ran a small pipe out through a joint in the brickwork onto the garden. No chemicals will be going this way as they go into large storage containers for later disposal the environmental way. I have no sink just a large plastic container which catches the run off from the 20 litre water container that is fitted with a water heating element from an old kettle and a drain tap. It is a great setup, nice and compact and does a good job of print washing which is just a made up spray pipe into a shallow tray.

For a Safe light I adapted a standard 15 watt obscure glass downlight to an old desk lamp. This points at a white ceiling. Fitted over the glass is a Red #25a filter plus a Red safe light filter on top with lots of tape around to block the white light leaks. This works very well and I have done a few 7 minute tests using various methods and it seems fine. It is so bright I do switch it off during enlarging so I can see the print better.

Using the enlarger I found an easy way to do test strips is to use a bit of masking tape to hold the strip in place. Then use a large fridge magnet to move across the test strip. It holds down tight to the test strip and this allows one handed testing. I began by using old print paper to mask the test strip till I discovered that light from the enlarger travels right through print paper. Cardboard works well but my fridge magnet is better than that.

"Darkroom Dave" has some good youtube tutorials as do "Borut Peterlin" and "Clyde Butcher". Try a bit of white light flashing of the prints for some radical highlights. I've pulled prints out of the developer at half way and then used an SB24 flash on auto pointed at the white ceiling and put the print back into the developer till it looks just right. Gives an infrared affect. If you can find an old microwave these are good for a quick 10 second blast on wet test strips, they come out near dry and steaming.

Have fun, make lots of mistakes as every day is for learning.
Robin.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Having both large and small easels is more convenient.

 

[saman13]

Hi Sam, Like you I have moved on from F2 repairs to mucking around in the darkroom. So here are a few tips and tricks that I adapted to my setup in a basement room that has no easy access to water and drainage. (see attached photos) To solve this first problem I ran in a water pipe and fitted a tap to that. But with no possible connection to drainage I just ran a small pipe out through a joint in the brickwork onto the garden. No chemicals will be going this way as they go into large storage containers for later disposal the environmental way. I have no sink just a large plastic container which catches the run off from the 20 litre water container that is fitted with a water heating element from an old kettle and a drain tap. It is a great setup, nice and compact and does a good job of print washing which is just a made up spray pipe into a shallow tray.

For a Safe light I adapted a standard 15 watt obscure glass downlight to an old desk lamp. This points at a white ceiling. Fitted over the glass is a Red #25a filter plus a Red safe light filter on top with lots of tape around to block the white light leaks. This works very well and I have done a few 7 minute tests using various methods and it seems fine. It is so bright I do switch it off during enlarging so I can see the print better.

Using the enlarger I found an easy way to do test strips is to use a bit of masking tape to hold the strip in place. Then use a large fridge magnet to move across the test strip. It holds down tight to the test strip and this allows one handed testing. I began by using old print paper to mask the test strip till I discovered that light from the enlarger travels right through print paper. Cardboard works well but my fridge magnet is better than that.

"Darkroom Dave" has some good youtube tutorials as do "Borut Peterlin" and "Clyde Butcher". Try a bit of white light flashing of the prints for some radical highlights. I've pulled prints out of the developer at half way and then used an SB24 flash on auto pointed at the white ceiling and put the print back into the developer till it looks just right. Gives an infrared affect. If you can find an old microwave these are good for a quick 10 second blast on wet test strips, they come out near dry and steaming.

Have fun, make lots of mistakes as every day is for learning.
Robin.
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Hey, Robin!

Well, I got tired of sending off the negatives I made with that F2 (and paying $11 a roll for D&S) so I wanted to start developing myself. Then I figured if I was developing myself I might as well go all the way and start printing again. Found a bargain for all the supplies I needed for both and now I'm on my way. You once said to me that the easiest way to cure camera GAS is a darkroom and an enlarger and you couldn't have been more right. I've stopped buying old cameras to fix up and now I just want to use the cameras I have to make negatives to print! In fact, I'm going the opposite way, selling off cameras I don't use to buy more film and paper. I've settled on just keeping my F2 for 35mm and Mamiyaflex for MF. Hopefully then I'll focus less on cameras and more on the negs. However, it was pretty fun restoring the enlarger. A lot less precision needed than fixing an F2!

It looks like a pretty nice setup you have there. I'm not going to have a dedicated space for my darkroom (1 bath apartment) so I think I'm going to get some type of rolling typewriter/microwave cart to sit my enlarger on and hold all my supplies underneath. Then I can just wheel it into the bathroom when I'm ready to print (thanks for the idea, APUG!).

Want to post a scan of a print you made using that technique?? I've never heard of that before but it piques my interest.

I've watched many, many of Clyde Butcher's videos. I've been a big fan of his photography for a while and I just moved to Tampa, about 2 hours north from where he sets up shop. In fact, my girlfriend's family has to 16x20 wet prints of his hanging in their home. They bought them from personally a long time ago at some street sale at around $100 a pop. The value of his work has certainly exploded since then! He's at his gallery fairly often so I'm going to try to meet him sometime. I'll give darkroom dave a try.

 

[Robin Guymer]

Hey Sam, another really handy tool for the darkroom is a Heat Gun. They are like hairdryers but a lot hotter and pretty cheap to buy. It is really quick to heat up developer and fixer in a tray to the correct temp. If the temp drops off a bit during darkroom work just wave the heat gun over the developer and within a miniute or so it will be back on 20c exactly. I also use it to prewarm a Patterson tank and it is essential for getting my colour developer c41 kit mixes to the exact temp. But I suppose your more likely to need cooling in Tampa.

I don't think I've ever read where anyone has used a flash in darkroom printing. But I watched some videos where the experts give a print a few seconds of no filter light when on the enlarger after the filtered time. They then mention this increases the highlights. So I just thought what the hell lets hit it with a flash during developing. Well it worked well with the Nikon SB24 flash on auto bounced off the ceiling and I will be doing this some more. However when I tried it with my old Metz it blew the print black instantly - it's a beast of a unit and I use it out photo spotlighting Roos and wildlife at night. It's fun trying new stuff in the darkroom and I get a lot of laughs at all the stuff ups that come from this.

The lab technician who does all the B&W film processing at Melbourne's main camera shop told me he develops his film in Xtol then in his darkroom he tests the strips in normal print developer to establish the enlarger time and filter then develops his final prints in Caffenol for around 3 minutes or so lifting them out during this time to check how there going. I've developed a lot of film in Caffenol but plan to try this printing process soon. Maybe for something radical I'll use the flash on it whilst it's soaking in the Caffenol.

Have fun. Looking forward to seeing some scans of your prints.
Robin.

 

[saman13]

Hey Sam, another really handy tool for the darkroom is a Heat Gun. They are like hairdryers but a lot hotter and pretty cheap to buy. It is really quick to heat up developer and fixer in a tray to the correct temp. If the temp drops off a bit during darkroom work just wave the heat gun over the developer and within a miniute or so it will be back on 20c exactly. I also use it to prewarm a Patterson tank and it is essential for getting my colour developer c41 kit mixes to the exact temp. But I suppose your more likely to need cooling in Tampa.

I don't think I've ever read where anyone has used a flash in darkroom printing. But I watched some videos where the experts give a print a few seconds of no filter light when on the enlarger after the filtered time. They then mention this increases the highlights. So I just thought what the hell lets hit it with a flash during developing. Well it worked well with the Nikon SB24 flash on auto bounced off the ceiling and I will be doing this some more. However when I tried it with my old Metz it blew the print black instantly - it's a beast of a unit and I use it out photo spotlighting Roos and wildlife at night. It's fun trying new stuff in the darkroom and I get a lot of laughs at all the stuff ups that come from this.

The lab technician who does all the B&W film processing at Melbourne's main camera shop told me he develops his film in Xtol then in his darkroom he tests the strips in normal print developer to establish the enlarger time and filter then develops his final prints in Caffenol for around 3 minutes or so lifting them out during this time to check how there going. I've developed a lot of film in Caffenol but plan to try this printing process soon. Maybe for something radical I'll use the flash on it whilst it's soaking in the Caffenol.

Have fun. Looking forward to seeing some scans of your prints.
Robin.

Sounds like a handy investment in the future. For now, the normal room temperature for me is around 70F, so as long as I keep all my chems and dilutions at this temp (developing with replenished XTOL and mixing others with room temp water) I'm well within normal developing temperature with minimal adjustments.

Replenished XTOL is what I want to start with just because I'm attracted to the consistency and always working at room temperature. I never liked running the water for 5 minutes and tweaking the levels until the temperature is just right for one-shot. But, caffenol is something that I'll definitely try at some point. That right there would combine my two favorite things!

 

[saman13]

And now, the fun begins!

 

[saman13]

Developed 4 rolls of film over the past two days without any issues. Those Paterson tanks are loads easier to not mess up than stainless ones!

I also started printing last night and it took me 4 hours total to make 4 prints, and 2 of them were crap. I really need to get my process more efficient....

 

[Svenedin]

Developed 4 rolls of film over the past two days without any issues. Those Paterson tanks are loads easier to not mess up than stainless ones!

I also started printing last night and it took me 4 hours total to make 4 prints, and 2 of them were crap. I really need to get my process more efficient....

People have quite polarised opinions on reels. Use whichever you find easiest!

I'm sure if you post your prints that general advice can be given. You will gain proficiency with time in the darkroom. Don't worry.

 

[saman13]

How do your workflows in the darkroom look? This is what I was doing:
Expose contact sheet, develop, fix, rinse.
Turn on lights, dry with blow drier and see which negatives I might want to print. The contact sheet also gives me an idea of which contrast filter I want to use.
Choose a negative, decide on magnification, cropping, expose a test strip. Develop, fix, rinse, realize the whole thing is over exposed. Expose a new test strip stopped down. Develop, fix, rinse.
Turn on lights, dry with blow drier, determine optimum exposure.
Expose at that exposure, develop, fix, wash, hang to dry.
Then do it all again for another frame.

Does this sound right? Is there anything I can do to make it more efficient? I bet the more I do it, the better I will get. I used to be much quicker when I was at school, but it was a much more convenient layout there.

I also tried processing multiple prints at the same time (something I have done before with good success) but this time they all stuck together and I couldn’t get them apart to interleave them while processing and as a result some turned out pretty bad. It all made for a pretty stressful processing experience, so I won’t be doing that again.

I figure my paper dev is still good for a short while so I’ll try again tonight. Cutting paper took up a big portion of my time last night, so hopefully things will go quicker this time.

 

[MattKing]

On the developing multiple prints front, a little practice will definitely improve results. It also helps to use a long development time - that permits adding the prints individually to the tray. Finally, if you want to easily develop just two prints, put them back to back into the tray, and then agitate by regularly flipping over the sandwich.
More generally, the procedure you are using looks good. As you gain experience, your judgment will improve and that will speed things up. As an example, I can do one print from a roll and then, based on "eyeballing" the image on the easel, centre my test strip times on a likely time. I also use a simple enlarging meter (Ilford EM-10) sometimes to speed up the test strip procedure when going from one negative to the next.
If your volume is consistent enough, it can be handy to do your contact sheets during one session, and then the subsequent prints in the next or later sessions.
Of course, that requires a well developed patience .

 

[M Carter]

Some quick tips:

For print developer, Liquidol (photographer's formulary) is really great, as it has ridiculous tray life. Comes as a liquid concentrate so no mixing big jugs from powder. After a print session, bottle up the tray solution, squirt a little canned air in the top to displace any oxygen (or fill up close to the neck). It really lasts, and just throw a little test strip of paper in it at the start of a session with the lights on. If it doesn't reach full max black, you can splash a bit more concentrate in or just dump it if it's very week or very old. I've gotten great prints with freaking mold floating in the developer!

Get a couple of these super-cheap LED bulbs in the red color for your safelights. You don't even need the safelight filters with them, or just stick them in clip lights. Amazing little things, no fog (but test each bulb to be safe). Bright as hell red light, and they last forever.

Best darkroom printing book I have ever seen is Tim Rudman's Master Printing Course. Covers everything from your first print to contrast filters and split-filter printing, up to very advanced stuff, all clearly explained with tons of photos. Discontinued but widely available used. Absolutely priceless book.

 

[saman13]

My safelights are definitely a weak point. They are old, pretty dim, and are big and clunky so I can’t put them in a convenient place to get the most out of them. They’re old premier ones that are supposed to be mounted on the wall but I can’t do that with them. But, I got them for free so I don’t want to pay for another safelight when I have some that work and money is tight. It is just hard to see what I’m doing all the time.

I’m using ilford PQ developer 1+9 and the published time is 1min for RC paper. That seems pretty short to me but it says 1+14 is only recommended for film.

I’ll try again tonight and see if I can get more comfortable with it all. Hopefully I’ll have some good prints to share here!

 

[MattKing]

I’m using ilford PQ developer 1+9 and the published time is 1min for RC paper. That seems pretty short to me but it says 1+14 is only recommended for film.

I think the data sheet for Ilford PQ Universal developer actually refers to 1+19, not 1+14 for large format sheet film.

More importantly, that data sheet also says: "To maintain print to print consistency when batch processing a large number of either RC or FB prints, it may be advantageous to reduce exposure slightly and extend development."

It also refers to doubling the recommended time for RC Cooltone paper.

Intriguingly, the data sheet for the Ilford RC papers actually recommends a development time of 2:00 for Ilford PQ Universal.

All of which might very well lead you to the conclusion that the recommended development times are just that, a recommendation.
Within reason, you can extend those times regularly. Just make sure to use the same development time for the test strips and the resulting prints.

 

[saman13]

I think the data sheet for Ilford PQ Universal developer actually refers to 1+19, not 1+14 for large format sheet film.

More importantly, that data sheet also says: "To maintain print to print consistency when batch processing a large number of either RC or FB prints, it may be advantageous to reduce exposure slightly and extend development."

It also refers to doubling the recommended time for RC Cooltone paper.

Intriguingly, the data sheet for the Ilford RC papers actually recommends a development time of 2:00 for Ilford PQ Universal.

All of which might very well lead you to the conclusion that the recommended development times are just that, a recommendation.
Within reason, you can extend those times regularly. Just make sure to use the same development time for the test strips and the resulting prints.

You’re right, I misremembered the dilutions. Well, I may try extending the development time to 2:00 in the future.

Question here: do y’all run test strips on your contact sheets? Or do you just know the general amount of time it should take and ballpark it.

 

[Carriage]

Set your enlarger to a height that you can reproduce (mark it or max height if that's suitable) and then do a test strip to work out the time that the black on the paper with no film in front of it is the same tone as the black in the rebates. Use your "standard" contrast filter. Make note of this exposure and use it for your contact sheets with that film and paper. You won't need to do test strips for them again if you don't change film or paper. This exposure will show you all the detail you've managed to capture in the shadow end of things and will look right for the vast majority of correctly exposed negatives. Strong highlights and overexposed negs will blow but they should still be printable.

 

[saman13]

Set your enlarger to a height that you can reproduce (mark it or max height if that's suitable) and then do a test strip to work out the time that the black on the paper with no film in front of it is the same tone as the black in the rebates. Use your "standard" contrast filter. Make note of this exposure and use it for your contact sheets with that film and paper. You won't need to do test strips for them again if you don't change film or paper. This exposure will show you all the detail you've managed to capture in the shadow end of things and will look right for the vast majority of correctly exposed negatives. Strong highlights and overexposed negs will blow but they should still be printable.

I’ll do this, thank you!

 

[Sirius Glass]

After some experience, I know about what the setting will be and that is close enough for contact prints.

 

[cornflower2]

I know there are a bunch of "beginner darkroom" threads on this site and I've read through a lot of them. I've been asking a few questions here and there but decided to just hopefully get everything in one place.

I've developed and enlarged before but while I was in college and had access to all the equipment and chemicals I would ever need. I just graduated (so funds are very tight) and am now looking to set up a darkroom for the first time. I purchased a fairly complete darkroom setup including an Omega B-8 enlarger, trays, lights etc.

Now, what I need is advice on chemicals. I am setting this up in a very small bathroom (the only one in my apartment) so size is a factor. The fewer chemicals the better for both storage and cost. I'm wanting to start developing my film by using replenished XTOL. So, here is the list of chemicals I know I need:

Developer: XTOL for film, Eco Pro for paper
Fixer: Eco Pro Clearfix Neutral Rapid
Stop: I was just going to use water

Now, how necessary is a hypo clearing agent and photoflo? The fewer chemicals I have to purchase, the more paper I can buy, which is GOOD!

I still have some Ilford RC and FB 8x10 paper from my classes so those are what I will be using for now.

Am I missing any vital chemicals? Any tips or tricks for setting up a darkroom for the first time? I can see how easy it would be to get carried away buying equipment and chemicals to start a darkroom which is something I really want to avoid. In fact it is something I have to avoid (my bank account frowns). So, any advice on how to keep costs down? I'm super excited to get this show on the road and start printing again. Nothing beats watching that image appear on the paper. Never gets old!

I'm such a big fan of this website because I don't know how else I would have all of these questions answered by people with such a wealth of information. So please Photrio, unload your collective knowledge on me!

You asked for it!

DO use stop bath for both your film and print processing! It is relatively cheap and will extend the life of your fixer, which is much more costly and needs to be in good condition to provide proper fixing.

DO use Photo-Flo, Agepon or some other wetting agent as a final rinse for your negatives. It will give you cleaner negatives and if (like me) you are in the habit of squeegeeing-off your films with a rubber-blade wiper before hanging them up to dry, it will prevent scratching.

DONT bother with hypo clearing agent for your negs or prints. Instead, for your FB prints only, use Agfa’s old SC1 final rinse, made by dissolving a 1% solution of Sodium Carbonate (easiest and cheapest way to buy it is from the swimming pool shop in a 1kg bag) in water (eg about 50 grams into a 5L container) and then use it to soak-rinse your prints with agitation for 60 secs after fixing and prior to washing. This stuff is CHEAP and ALKALINE and will de-acidify the print fibres to loosen them up and so make print washing much more effective, also causes the prints to separate from each other in the washing tray instead of sticking together.

Then for final washing, soak-wash your prints for an hour (or two or three) by swirling them about in the wash water; leaving them to soak for 15mins; then tipping out and replacing the wash water and repeating this process several times. After using the SC1 bath you will feel how clean the prints become.

IF you are keen to save LOTS of money on photo paper (and its associated processing solutions) and you use an iPhone, iPod touch or iPad, then buy a copy of my app enLARGE on the Apple AppStore as it will let you compute the exposure time needed to make a big enlargement (of any size) once you know the exposure time needed to expose an enlargement of any other size (eg. one which is much smaller, which can be your test or work print). A box of the best FB paper lasts me for ages. Cheers - Andrew Wittner

 

[John51]

I also started printing last night and it took me 4 hours total to make 4 prints, and 2 of them were crap. I really need to get my process more efficient....

I recently got myself some darkroom kit and had a go at printing some negs from 30 years ago. I could bang out over 100 postcards in a session back then so no problem eh? 3 or 4 hours and about a dozen sheets of 8x10 later, I had nothing worth showing.

Thoroughly disheartened and I haven't printed since. I will start again once I've had a proper think about workflow.

Here's what I've come up with up to now:

Absolutely no creative decisions to be made in the darkroom, that's where the time goes. Meaning that I'll never print the same neg twice in a session unless I wanted more than one print before the session started. All prints will be evaluated the next day at the earliest.

I'll be aiming for negs that make good contact prints. If the contact doesn't look good technically, it will need to have seriously good content for me to faff about printing a neg that is technically wrong.

As per the advice of Carriage earlier, post #71, the enlarger will be tested at different heights and notes taken. Once I know the minimum times for acceptable black at various heights, the enlarger becomes my zoom lens. (I'm not the worlds best at composition with a camera.)

Once the testing is done, workflow will be 20 8x10s per session. Should be quick as there won't be anything to think about. Either contacts, work prints or previously decided 'this would look better if I...'

Do the 20, junk the Dektol and the citric stop bath and save the fixer for another day.