Bad XTOL?

[Dani]

I hope we don't go "there". The batch of XTOL that went bad was actually made in Germany.

 

[Dani]

All developers oxidize quickly and the oxidation destroys them. Do not use a floating lid; use a sealed container with the air pushed out.

I've used that same floating lid container for 5 years now. XTOL always lasts me at least 6 months. This is the first time ever that I've noticed something happening either after mixing or after I'm ready to mix some more. It didn't even last a month!

 

[MattKing]

I hope we don't go "there". The batch of XTOL that went bad was actually made in Germany.

As will be any you buy in the near future - the fragmentary information I've seen indicates that the new packaging also says Made in Germany.

 

[138S]

I hope we don't go "there". The batch of XTOL that went bad was actually made in Germany.

In practice that stamp says it was packaged in Germany, nobody knows where the chem came from.

Making photo chem it's is easy and it's difficult. It is easy because chem employed is low technology.

But it's difficult to make the chem cheap, what is expensive is purity, so the ingredients have to allow many impurities to be cheap, what is dificult is to know what impurities can be allowed with having no problem. This involves learning what raw chem manufacturers make chem that it can be qualified as photo grade becasue the impurities are not technically harmful and not more toxic that the product itself.

The big profits in photochem always have been related to the wisdom in using cheaper ingredients that have non harmful impurities.

 

[MattKing]

Whatever you do, I'd recommend you take 138S's posts with a minimum of at least a kilogram of salt.
It also isn't clear whether the black and white chemicals are expected to remain with film in Kodak Alaris' portfolio - all the references I have seen to the photo-chemical business have referenced the colour photo-chemical business.

 

[138S]

Perhaps, but Alaris is for sell, in sections or the whole thing, I guess you are aware... so what is the Alaris portfolio it will we quite elastic in the near future.

Recently my dektol was brown just after mixing, it worked perfectly but I was to dump it because I never had seen before a recently mixed Dektol looking like if was detroyed. This is not serious.

"In the meantime, the KPP2 trustees have instructed the directors of Kodak Alaris to ‘undertake the exploration of an orderly disposal of the Group or its component businesses…’ according to the Kodak Alaris document."
https://www.dpreview.com/news/3179427253/kodak-alaris-is-looking-to-sell-off-its-paper-and-film-unit

"Kodak Alaris CEO Marc Jourlait confirmed to Inside Imaging that the company has 'privately briefed' potential customers on its intention to 'explore sale of some or all of our assets.' The PPF unit is already 'at an advanced stage of negotiations with a potential buyers [sic]."
https://www.insideimaging.com.au/2019/exclusive-kodak-up-for-sale/

 

[Sirius Glass]

Whatever you do, I'd recommend you take 138S's posts with a minimum of at least a kilogram of salt.
It also isn't clear whether the black and white chemicals are expected to remain with film in Kodak Alaris' portfolio - all the references I have seen to the photo-chemical business have referenced the colour photo-chemical business.

I agree however I would replace kilogram of salt with kiloton of salt.

 

[pentaxuser]

The whole Kodak chemical picture is confused to say the least. There are surely some grounds for all of us users of Kodak materials to cast a sceptical eye towards that company's recent mishaps/mistakes etc

As consumers aren't we here to get to the truth as best we can for fellow consumers irrespective of what the company is?

I have long been a user of Xtol and it is yet to let me down but frankly once I open and use up my final packet of Xtol I have to say that recent events have chipped away at my confidence in Kodak chemicals. It is a truism to say that the Kodak of today bears little resemblance to the Kodak of it heyday due the passage of time and "events" but the plain fact is that almost any company now is not the company it was 10 or 20 years ago and yet there is a danger that we treat is as the same company we knew and loved those 10/20 years ago

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

I've recently become aware that Kodak Alaris has a dedicated email for paper and chemical issues: ProPaperChem@kodakalaris.com
It might be worthwhile to send your query to that email as well.

 

[Peter Schrager]

I don't care who ends up owning it..I love my xtol...

 

[Donald Qualls]

I don't care who ends up owning it..I love my xtol...

Fortunately, there are good alternatives to Xtol. From my reading (haven't tried either one) Legacy Eco-Pro is a 1:1 replacement for Xtol, including self-replenishing at the same rate (though I wouldn't go so far as to assume you could continue an existing replished Xtol line; I'd start fresh instead), and Mytol (home-mixed Xtol) also uses the same times and gives indistinguishable results (and I've seen at least one report of successful self-replenishment with Mytol). One caveat with Mytol is that it may be subject to the Fenton reaction, in which iron or copper present as impurities in the chemicals used (not even in your water!) will consume the ascrobate, reducing the developer activity very suddenly to near the "clear film" level -- current recommendations are to use it only for one-shot diluted processing and leader test before each use.

There likely are other Xtol-alike developers -- pretty sure Ilford offers one, though I don't recall their designation for it, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to find at least one European chemical supplier offering one.

 

[Dani]

Yes, since Xtol is backordered everywhere I ordered Legacy Eco-Pro and used it yesterday as 1:1. The results are, to my eyes, identical to Xtol. I've used Legacy Eco-Pro in the past and I've been happy with it. I'll look into what Ilford offers.

 

[MattKing]

I don't believe Ilford offers an ascorbic acid based developer.

 

[Bormental]

There likely are other Xtol-alike developers -- pretty sure Ilford offers one, though I don't recall their designation for it, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to find at least one European chemical supplier offering one.

Ilford doesn't. I've seen people label DD-X to be "similar" to XTol or even as a "Xtol clone". It isn't. DD-X is very different, it is hydroquinone+phenidone, high grain + speed boost but without Xtol smoothness. Freestyle claims that Fomadon is ascrobate-based and "similar to Xtol" but I have not tried it.

 

[pentaxuser]

I don't believe Ilford offers an ascorbic acid based developer.

That's my belief as well, Matt. Not often we seem to hold the same belief in anything Kodak

pentaxuser

 

[mshchem]

I tried the recalled batch of XTOL it worked perfectly (new German vendor who I suspect is A***. I do have Tetenal made German XTOL in my strategic developer reserve. I haven't tried it but I hear the eco-pro Legacy product works fine.

I haven't hit any brown Dektol because I use Ilford Bromophen.

I seriously doubt that the China buyer has any interest in the B&W chemical business. It will require a small operation. I suspect that all the Kodak dry chemistry in the world could be blended and packaged in 500 kg batches and keep up just fine.

 

[MattKing]

I seriously doubt that the China buyer has any interest in the B&W chemical business. It will require a small operation. I suspect that all the Kodak dry chemistry in the world could be blended and packaged in 500 kg batches and keep up just fine.

More importantly, there is much more commonality between the film distribution chains and the black and white chemical distribution chains.
Almost 100% of the colour chemicals are sold to people who might buy the colour paper - commercial labs.