Bad News About Ilford

[jovo]

Telling wonderful stories that all the pros are switching back is like Custer telling his men that he thinks he can hear a bugle off in the distance. The reinforcements just ain't comin'.

Michael McBlane

Custer was listening to the opening of Mahler 5 on his ipod...he wasn't paying attention in the first place.

 

[L Gebhardt]

Does anyone know if Ilfochrome is included in this restructuring? I have just started using it so I would hate for it to go away.

 

[kwmullet]

Film Microbreweries?

Okay... in my own fantasy world, I'm thinking that the b&w expendible industry might go from large multinationals to regional "microbreweries", where you could order a few boxes of "rio-grande Royal X" each season from that film company that operates out of an old aircraft hanger in Waco or some such.

Are there comparatively smallish coating machines that could produce 35mm/120/LF film on plastic stock with high-level QA?

I'm thinking it wouldn't take too much effort to learn to make my own developers, and if I got really shoved into the digital corner, I could become motivated to learn Pt/Pn, but I don't see any way I, as a private individual, could produce film stock as good as what I get from the large outfits.

thinking out loud... maybe too loud...

-KwM-

 

[k_jupiter]

Hmmmm. Classic 200 is fine with me. Not an expansion film but it has held up very well with minus and normal development. As long as my processing is consistent, my negs are consistent.

I am always amazed at how little sense of humor some people have. THOSE films are the ones I use. I was warning Aggie away from messing with them as she has had a run of bad luck with her favorite films.

I hate explaining humor.


tim in san jose

 

[FrankB]

I'm late on thread, again...

Really awful news.

Here's hoping they find a buyer who can keep their existing trad B&W lines going (especially as that's every B&W film and paper that I regularly use!) and keep their workforce intact (I've been in a similar situation and it isn't a fun place to be).

Obviously, if anyone hears anything then please post it.

Regards,

Frank

 

[Dave Miller]

Well, bad news isn't it. I've just done my bit and ordered a 'fridge full of 120 - just a thought, where will we put the food!

 

[Ed Sukach]

Ed wrote:

Anyway... I receive and read the magazine ... "The Professional Photographer". One would think that by now, it would be purely "digital". It is NOT.

Ed they must be sending you copies from the 1990s. As of the July issue virtually every display ad in the magazine that dealt with cameras, labs, and everything but lighting was digital.

Really?

I retrieved the July 2004 issue, and there is a lot of "digital". However, one cannot overlook the Fuji Film insert between pages 34 and 35 ... not completely dedicated to film, but a LOT of copy about Velvia 100F, and Portrait NPH 400. I'd say close to 50/50 film/digital. Then there is the marvelous "Message from the farthest land", starting on page 64, All done with a Canon EOS-1N with Fujichrome Velvia film, except one image on page 68; Fuji Provia 100. Don't forget "Rites of Passage" on page 98... Cambo 4x5 on Kodak 160 vc Film.
That was July 2004. More "digital" images than usual.

August is freshest in my memory ... Inside front cover ... "No one film can capture skin tones and color this beautifully ... - New Portra 800 film (Kodak).

This is all *grinding* overkill. I do not have my head buried in the sand ... certainly there is a LOT of digital photography being done. The point I am trying to make is that there is a lot more for the professional to consider than a Lemming follow-up, with the idea of "everyone (else) is doing it .. it must be the only way to go."
EVERYONE is not doing digital photography. The"Digital Revolution" is not complete. There is no wholesale mass movement of *everyone* to digital.

Many, (this may be biased, but everyone I know) are still capturing on film, and the "digital" manipulation is done at some following time. I personally doubt that film/ chemical will ever "go away" completely ... no more that photography succeeded in totally replacing oil painting.

I can't remember the last advertisement I saw for a Leaf, Phase 1, Sinar, Jena, or other High-End back for the 'Blad.

 

[jim kirk jr.]

Hopefully the worst will not happen but if it does I believe Les mentioned something on a previous posting about former Eastern block countries becoming the mainstay of B&W film-maybe Hans O Mahn,the makers of Maco film products will buy them out.

 

[Mark Savoie]

We have all seen these types of threads about the death of film, which may turn out to be true in some way over time. What I never see in the threads are the sales numbers. Kodak is not selling a hundred rolls per person to a couple of thousand users. They have sales of $13 Billion and the infoimaging industry is about $385 Billion a year. Just the film industry in China is expected to be $870 Million.

My questions:

What are the sales numbers of film? I can't seem to find the numbers. I think they are making money but the numbers are not going up which drives stock down.

Why are places like Kodak taking losses to go to digital? My suspicion is that they perceive that they will make more money. Most households buy less than 16 rolls per year and use the same camera for a long time, but they would probably would replace their digital camera sooner for a higher cost and would also replace the storage cards at a higher costs.

 

[DKT]

Does anyone know if Ilfochrome is included in this restructuring? I have just started using it so I would hate for it to go away.

consider this a rumor--an ilford tech told me about a year ago that ilfochrome was "history" as far as photofinishing goes. I didn't think much of it, but he predicted a year and a half life left for it....

I wrote this off as gossip--otoh, another tech (another company) told me back in the late 90s, that Ilford was "getting out" of the processing business (machines, commercial lab gear). Same thing here--this guy was from a competitor, so who knows? But then, Ilford did in fact, quit making their processors and they seriously scaled back support.

Funny--our ilford machine broke down last Tuesday. A service call was placed the next day, and for 2 days we played phone tag. It's been a week down, but should be fixed soon. I just had an order of 2 cases of Ilford paper, a case of Ilford 4x5 film. BUT--there was twice that for kodak, plus kodak b&w chem, plus 6 mos. worth of E6. On top of that was 2 cases of Polaroid sheet film. Everything except the Ilford has arrived.

it's not unusual for there to be delays and delivery problems with Ilford stuff though. I have gotten some mixed signals in the past year or so from the repair techs--so it will be interesting to see what they have to say about future parts and support. After all, these service contracts are for 1500-2000 a year. If the company tanks out in the middle of one.....bummer....I'd like to think they would let us know, but they never told us they quit making the processing machine until about 2 yrs afterwards.

My opinions only. Not my employers.

 

[glbeas]

No contest - The inkjet would be *MUCH* easier. I use a JOBO, and keeping the tanks clean has never been a problem.
All this DOES make sense for the one-hour labs.

Hmmm... I did not know that Fuji Crystal Archive was "double duty". I have been using Ilfocolor --- I love the stuff. I'll try some Fuji in the near future.

From experience I know for a fact that the pictures the photo labs print from digital files onto wet process color paper looks a lot smoother, sharper, and better color rendition that what I can do on my Epson 2200. I wish I had one of those machines myself to play with.

 

[TPPhotog]

Yet more bad news and at the end of the day we have no choice but to wait and see if the administrators think that there is a profit margin worth making in film to be able to find a buyer. So for the time being I'll carry on until we hear the outcome. I see no point is chasing around finding alternative films and papers for them to disappear just when I can guarantee a customer a standard I feel comfortable with. If all the big players pull out then I guess I'll retire from photography altogether

 

[argentic]

Courts are throwing out evidence that is not film based. Maybe internally the shots are digital at a police department, but for court room evidence it has to be film. But I see you are in the netherlands. May be different there.

Courts maybe throw out digital evidence when it's from somebody else. But he is an official sworn in police officer/photographer. And courts here in Holland accept his digital photographs. The only occasions he uses his analog equipment now is for family pictures. ALL policework is done digitally.

Gilbert

 

[Eric Rose]

Just goes to show Les was way ahead of us.

 

[TPPhotog]

I've just been Emailed this Link

 

[Aggie]

Think I will buy a freezer and fill it with FP4 in roll and 4x5 sheets.

 

[noblebeast]

I think this is opportunity knocking for you, Sean. You're often complaining about how much you dislike your current day job. Make them a reasonable offer for the film business - you can worry about how to pay for it later. Imagine the new label - "APUG Ilford FP4 +" - ect... Hard times call for bold risk taking! We'll all be right behind you - depending of course on how much shipping from New Zealand costs, and if it takes more than a week...

 

[Chuckiesinluv]

Ilford in trouble???

This is a sad day indeed but it is looking more and more that film photographers ( except for Kodak and Fujicolor at Walmart) may be in deep trouble. This is troubling indeed.

 

[jovo]

As a long time devotee of Delta 100 and ID11, I am more than saddened by this news; I actually lost sleep over it last night. I know it's premature to mourn what's not yet dead, but there's a pall that may not lift for quite a while if ever. The bright side? Entrepenuership is a quirky and infinitely surprising enterprise. Welcome to the world of the 'niche market'. For example, I know of a tiny artist's oil paint firm in Kingston, NY that makes extraordinary products which serve a loyal artist community. The owner does well, but he cares about his product and the people who use it as much as he regards his 'bottom line'. I hope we'll eventually be as well served by suppliers of analog materials who feel similarly.

 

[John McCallum]

Well said.

 

[Ian Grant]

I can't remember the last advertisement I saw for a Leaf, Phase 1, Sinar, Jena, or other High-End back for the 'Blad.

Well in Ipswitch, England or any other town of it's ilk the commercial, and advertising photographers would all be using digital backs already. Certainly most of my friends shoot digital and even the most luddite computer loathing took to digital imaging like a duck to water. Sure they still have to shoot film for the occasional client.

Most ads for film etc are aimed at the GP (general purpose) photographers still using film. High-End backs are one off buys to last a while and not consumables.

How many ads do you see in Photo mags for memory cards

 

[kjsphoto]

I swear if film is no longer produced I am throwing away all my camera gear and goign back to oils, brushes and inks exclusively. digital is s&*( and the quality comes nowhere close to film. Yeah I said it. I shoot digital and I hate it. I even went back to film for doing weddings. I wont go into it but I am sick and tired of this digital s*&^ being forced down my neck.

I pray that there will be a supplier that will not rip us off in sale prices. That woudl be a tragedy!

Photography is an art and so is print making. What a shame it would be to lose one of the great arts.

 

[Ed Sukach]

Well in Ipswitch, England or any other town of it's ilk the commercial, and advertising photographers would all be using digital backs already. Certainly most of my friends shoot digital and even the most luddite computer loathing took to digital imaging like a duck to water. Sure they still have to shoot film for the occasional client.
Most ads for film etc are aimed at the GP (general purpose) photographers still using film. High-End backs are one off buys to last a while and not consumables.
How many ads do you see in Photo mags for memory cards

I can't - won't - argue with the fact that they are using "digital". Are they using the US$10,000- US$30,000 Leaf - Phase One 22+ Megapixel Backs or the lesser 35mm ( - or so) 6 -13.7 (effective) Megapixel Cameras?

Digital has its place. Film has its place. I don't think digital will completely constitiute ALL Professional Equipment - ever.

Myself ... I learned on "film". Looking back, it was NEVER drudgery.... true - there was a LOT of work that I considered to be less than successful. I never regretted one image that I took. I have been disappointed, without question ... but NO REGRETS. The bright sparks of discovery - and the rare successes - more than compensated for all of the effort.

Now .. I look at some neophytes and Old Masters who have been exclusively using "digital". One, especially, with 40+ YEARS of amateur and Industrial Photography (head of a large corporate Industrial Lab) acquired a Leica Digilux. After the intial flurry of excitement ... he hasn't touched that camera for five months.

Why do I do photography? To tell the truth, I really don't know - or rather, I don't have a logical explanation.
One thing is sure - It is NOT because it is an easy, automatic, mistakes mean *nothing*, activity - far from it.

BTW ... Do they spell the name "Ipswitch"?

 

[eclarke]

The coating machinery involved in making film is immense, not a bunch of little presses. My brother-in-law was tech services director for Ansco/GAF and responsible for QC on the film coating machine. This machine was several stories high and the building that housed it a couple blocks long. To keep such a machine running it requires the sale of millions of sq. feet of film. There are only 2500 registered users at APUG, who will support the manufacture of all this film?..Evan Clarke

 

[jovo]

The coating machinery involved in making film is immense, not a bunch of little presses. My brother-in-law was tech services director for Ansco/GAF and responsible for QC on the film coating machine. This machine was several stories high and the building that housed it a couple blocks long. To keep such a machine running it requires the sale of millions of sq. feet of film. There are only 2500 registered users at APUG, who will support the manufacture of all this film?..Evan Clarke

This is true when one is mass producing the stuff, but I'd be surprised if a scaled back to realistic-for-the market size plant would not be possible and, hopefully, profitable. The problem would be to convince investors (venture capatalist types e.g.) that there is a solid and continuing market for film, paper and chems. BUT....that's the province of the visionary entrepeneur. Not exactly a white knight, cavalry leading, mythical savior, but someone who can expect to make a reasonable return on investment, and most importantly....wants to!!

Or do I really have to wake up now?