Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

[mohmad khatab]

the pyramids were built with slave labour

There is absolutely no reliable scientific evidence for this.
I reject that hypothesis completely.
oh dear, a,
Now there are other more reliable theories.
There are ancient eras that have vanished that we don't know anything about.

 

[mohmad khatab]

Yes. This is a very important part, a key part, really. When they started this project not only Fuji was the sole maker of E6 (along with some remnants of Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200), but also the only makers for C41 film were Kodak and Fuji.

Now the things have changed, we have Kodak E6 again, plus Fuji, plus ugly-colors Fugufilm 400. And in C41 we have a new player, Adox with "Color Mission" which has decent colors and promises to get even better in the next iteration. Plus the rebranded Kodak ECN2 films by CineStill that for practical purposes compete with the other C41 films.

Moreover in B/W film the palette (no pun intended) has expanded considerably -- we have all sorts of B/W film with new players. I would think it isn't easy even to market P30 succesfully right now in 2022. Adox already took the lead for most innovative company for B/W film, they are promoting their B/W slides, making kits for slide development, they have the high-resolution films that probably are the same ISO as the real iso of P30, etc etc.

It's probably that the time window for Ferrania to be highly profitable has passed.

And, also, we can't subestimate the involvement of the local government. This is probably one of the key items that slow things to a crawl. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ferrania folks had to wait months or even a full year until the local government approves some budget or some work.

I really wish them success, because they do have the original people involved in the production of Solaris and Imation Chrome, so they do have the know how, and they have most of the machines. But of course that's not enough.

I was enthusiastic about them since 2012 - in the midst of the latest Egyptian revolution, and I was following their news with great passion.
But they gave up on that old man who was igniting the position of Director of Alchemists, and from that moment on, everything went very slowly.
In the end, I wish them luck and success.

 

[mohmad khatab]

Mohmad may have a point about the culture/attitude

I love them and wish them success, but I blame them, the reproach of a loyal lover.

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

and... we're starting to go way off topic.

 

[cmacd123]

and... we're starting to go way off topic.

has this forum EVER not gone way off topic?

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

Just doing my civic duty…

 

[Nzoomed]

Film Ferrania's main aim was/is to ensure "100 more years of analogue film" by becoming a small, flexible film factory able to move with the times and needs of the market. They correctly noted that the market had bottomed out and was beginning to grow again...and that it might not be predictable what kinds of film customers would want in the future. The idea was to be able to make shorter runs of a given film than Kodak or Fuji could do at the time, to allow more flexibility. The thing is, Kodak have gone some way to be able to do that themselves now and Adox are looking to also become a manufacturer which is able to move with market needs. That doesn't mean Film Ferrania will fail, but the obvious window has closed.

That said, I like P30 and will continue to use it. I'd love to see it in 120 and 8mm formats. It's easily developed as negative or reversal which has advantages too.

From what I could make out, P30 has been at least enough income for them to stay afloat for the time being, they could have either spent money trying to get colour to the market, and not sell any film, or at least sell B&W film and generate some income while at the same time their R&D team can get colour back up and running.
I bet they have to make alot of tweaks to the coater and get more chemistry perfected which will be the most work.
I know they had at least made some progress on some critical chemicals like sensitizers, etc.
They also have 120 production pretty much completed from what I understood.

 

[mohmad khatab]

From what I could make out, P30 has been at least enough income for them to stay afloat for the time being, they could have either spent money trying to get colour to the market, and not sell any film, or at least sell B&W film and generate some income while at the same time their R&D team can get colour back up and running.
I bet they have to make alot of tweaks to the coater and get more chemistry perfected which will be the most work.
I know they had at least made some progress on some critical chemicals like sensitizers, etc.
They also have 120 production pretty much completed from what I understood.

What would happen if they allowed the sale of P.30 reels?
How many photographers here in this forum will buy from them in order to save some money?
If their prices are acceptable and competitive, many photographers around the world will definitely buy from them.
Foma does it and so does ORWO.
If they do this, they will definitely generate a large amount of sales and profits, and therefore they will be able to spend on research, laboratory experiments, and so on.
These are just simple ideas but they will be very motivating.

 

[cmacd123]

From what I could make out, P30 has been at least enough income for them to stay afloat for the time being.

one of the last messages was that they were having to use a contractor, (who was early in their own learning curve) and so the waste was high enough to make it unprofitable. they decided to bring it all in house, on their own equipment, rather than making money losing sales. they also saw the 120 production very close and pledged to have both sizes when they resumed. Then COVID hit.

 

[faberryman]

If, if, if...

Film Ferrania's spokesperson's last post was on January 23, 2020. That is also the date he last visited the forum.

 

[cmacd123]

Film Ferrania's spokesperson's last post was on January 23, 2020.

Indeed, and then COVID hit. And it hit Italy very hard. Sadly I am no longer expecting much.

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

they'd said they had some serious ambitions for 2021- including more formats and more speeds for p30. but we didn't see any of that. They definitely hit some sort of roadblock.

 

[cmacd123]

they'd said they had some serious ambitions for 2021- including more formats and more speeds for p30. but we didn't see any of that. They definitely hit some sort of roadblock.

Old Old Ferania did have several films in the "P" series. their was a P33 at about 160 that used to be sold here as Dynapan way back in the 1960s when I was just starting out. and annother is the 400 range. there were also a couple of slower films. all were phased out when 3M wanted mainly film and paper for their Photofinishing business. (K-mart, Zellers, Sears and others sold private label 3M colour film.) And 3M had a large Photofinishing operation.

the Movie stocks except for regular 8 and Super 8 also faded away. (with Kodak, Fuji and Agfa all selling movie print stock, the market was probably saturated, and I doubt that many productions would risk 3m camera stock when their were already three bigger suppliers wanting the business...- Now Kodak is the only one standing in that market, at least in Colour)

 

[Burninfilm]

I’m surprised to see some still give any weight to anything Ferrania says. If they say they are nearly ready to make 120 film, I sure wouldn’t be making any bets they’ll actually do it. LOL

Are they still producing P30? I periodically check the dealers listed in the Ferrania website, but they always state “ Out of stock”. Maybe it just sells out quickly?

Not sure any Ferrania reps were ever “abused”. If a project takes Kickstarter money and promises something to a backer, then the options are either follow through or accept that there will be disappointed and sometimes vocal backers. It happens. Any failed Kickstarter ends up like that.

It would be cool to see an update from them. I always figured that they’d “fizzle out” unnanounced if they went under. I even said something like that several years ago. Hope that’s not the case. Their little factory would be cool and it’s fun to think about all the crazy film/formats they could support if successful and thriving. But when the company is struggling just to get P30 into a 35mm cassette, it does seem more like dreaming. I’d like to think that just the fact they were able to make ANY P30 from the little derelict film production line is in itself a success. But wouldn’t it be awesome if they were able to do more? Like I said… probably dreaming. LOL.

 

[Agulliver]

they'd said they had some serious ambitions for 2021- including more formats and more speeds for p30. but we didn't see any of that. They definitely hit some sort of roadblock.

Global plague? Much of Northern Italy was locked down for months at a time, it was illegal to leave one's home even to go to work in most cases. Additionally a number of the Film Ferrania folk are no spring chickens, they may well have stayed home even longer than legally required under medical advice. Additionally, we all know the effect the pandemic has had on supply chains. It should not be surprising that they've hit even more stumbling blocks.

What I will say is that they've not communicated that they're still working towards their stated goals. But I tend to go by their last statement, which was that their next communication would be when they've achieved in-house production of P30 from raw materials to market product. That and the fact that all their websites are still up and paid for suggests they're still active. But I will admit it's impossible to be sure.

Not sure any Ferrania reps were ever “abused”. If a project takes Kickstarter money and promises something to a backer, then the options are either follow through or accept that there will be disappointed and sometimes vocal backers. It happens. Any failed Kickstarter ends up like that.

Backers got what they were promised. The machinery and LRF building were saved. That is precisely what the Kickstarter funds were for. They were clear and transparent from the start. Nobody was ever promised anything more. We made a donation towards a hoped for goal. Not an order for film. Not an investment. A donation. And yes, I donated too.

What I call abuse is the accusations of lying, scamming, insults directed at Dave Bias and the Film Ferrania people. And that was and remains evident here and elsewhere.

 

[Burninfilm]

The Kickstarter was to buy machinery and a portion was to be used to produce/pack/ship film to backers. Ferrania stated the film was basically a sure thing, they just needed the money, blah blah. It’s all been discussed before. LOL.

If they wanted a pure donation there were other ways to do it, or they could have simply rewarded backers with just the postcards or maybe a T-shirt. But they offered film and did their best to make it look like a sure thing and then didn’t deliver on that. Definitely a case where backers shouldn’t have faith in the words of a project creator.

 

[Europan]

You know what a lie is? P 30 is a lie. It’s neither panchromatically sensitized, nor has it an E. I. of 30 degrees Scheiner, which is ISO 80. It should be named OP 29 (for orthopanchromatic and ISO 64 DIN 19). I don’t say it’s a bad film, far from that.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I too have questioned the spectral sensitivity of this film and if it truly is panchromatic, as reds are rendered much darker than say, with HP5... And to get decent shadow tones, I have to expose it at around an EI of 20. But.... that said, I find it's look quite interesting, and hopefully I'll get a chance to try it in 120.

 

[cmacd123]

You know what a lie is? P 30 is a lie..

P30 was the name of a 1950's Ferrannia Product, and the P30 that was released is a close approximation of that product. Even in the 50s, the name was not descriptive. (and in the 50s that is what passed for Pancro. Compare with the EFKE pan films)

 

[mshchem]

I just hope everyone survived the pandemic. The world is a mess and has been for the last few years. SinoPromise hasn't made paper or chemistry for the last couple years. Total chaos.

 

[MattKing]

SinoPromise hasn't made paper or chemistry for the last couple years.

I'm not sure that is the case, because one of the supply chain problems they have been having is getting manufactured product actually to its destination, rather than stuck waiting for containers and ships.

 

[mshchem]

I'm not sure that is the case, because one of the supply chain problems they have been having is getting manufactured product actually to its destination, rather than stuck waiting for containers and ships.

This is interesting.
https://petapixel.com/2022/03/31/photo-labs-may-soon-see-kodak-paper-and-chemical-shortages-report/
It may be available in China but not anywhere else. Total chaos right now that's certain. Costs of material and labor through the roof. Fuel costs have nearly doubled.

Do you know if the Carestream plant in Colorado is active with any kind of business? Xray other businesses or is it shuttered? Damn shame.

 

[MattKing]

I don't know whether Carestream is making anything related to photography or X-ray, but my understanding is that Carestream does a lot of things.
They posted this job offering this week:https://careers.carestream.com/job/Field-Engineer-Colorado-Springs-CO/866252300/

 

[foc]

But let us also remember that Dave Bias was pretty much abused when he posted here, so his silence is to be expected.

He may have had a few bad comments passed his direction but he was not behind the door himself in posting caustic replies.

I had a few words with him, on this forum. As you may know I don't use aggressive language, insult people and I try to be civil most of the time.

However I asked a few questions, maybe they were too close to the bone, but the vitriol of his replies surprised me.
It was as if I had "rattled his cage".
My own opinion of his replies was, attack is better than defence.
And so my questions were not properly answered.

 

[Agulliver]

The Kickstarter was to buy machinery and a portion was to be used to produce/pack/ship film to backers. Ferrania stated the film was basically a sure thing, they just needed the money, blah blah. It’s all been discussed before. LOL.

If they wanted a pure donation there were other ways to do it, or they could have simply rewarded backers with just the postcards or maybe a T-shirt. But they offered film and did their best to make it look like a sure thing and then didn’t deliver on that. Definitely a case where backers shouldn’t have faith in the words of a project creator.

"was basically a sure thing".....and then the Italian government cut the campus in two and shot off the electricity and gas supply...and then they discovered asbestos.

and *any* funds given to Kickstarter campaigns are donations. It's there in the T&C. Plain and clear.

But there's no point in actually telling people that because they refuse to listen.