B/W film in summer for urban documentary project, and come kit critique please

[Don_ih]

Some people seem to be confusion "protest" with "riot".

I don't know if that's the case. The protest as described in this thread seems to be potentially volatile. And protests can very easily turn into riots, especially in areas with strong authoritarian control.

But - yes, you can slog through the crowd and take photos with your Speed Graphic or 5x7 RBGraflex, if you want. Whatever floats the boat, you know. You can set up a 8x10 on a cast iron stand and wheel it through the crowd and use that. Will any of that get better photos than a Fed with an Industar 26? Maybe. But if you're looking for advise of any kind, chances are no one will recommend any of the former options.

I'm enjoying picturing some disgruntled protester grabbing the monopod and slamming the Hasselblad attached to it down on the pavement like swinging Thor's hammer.

 

[MattKing]

Just turn the Hasselblad with the WLF on its side, at eye level.

It's a square format and it'll not make a difference unless you are using a 4.5 cm x 6cm magazine or magazine mask.

Too many people don't recognize this opportunity of WLFs, so try it out so you can work out the camera handling and focus requirements.

Cheers

The image will be upside down when you do this.
A challenge for some, and not a problem for others.

 

[BrianShaw]

And if one really wants upside down images, just hold the Hasselblad over your head and look up into the WLF. Square is square...

 

[Alex Benjamin]

You can set up a 8x10 on a cast iron stand and wheel it through the crowd and use that.

I'd love that. I could just see myself directing the whole affair. "Hey! You! Yeah! You, with the smoke bomb! Could you move a little to the right, please? Thanks!"

Seriously though, I was going on the little information that has been given so far (a starting to regret jumping back into this thread). Not knowing in which country this take place, who the protesters are, what they are protesting against (or for), kind of forces one to go out on a limb, hoping that this will lead to a bit more info leaking.

There are many kinds of authoritarian countries, and many degrees of authoritarianism — without going into the forbidden subject of politics, there are plenty of recent examples of protests in democratic countries that turned into riots, and plenty of recent examples of protests in authoritarian states which were allowed to go about their business with the protesters simply and quietly arrested right after.

So, impossible to infer risk without info. And the who, what, where, when goes straight to the subject matter of which gear may or may not fit the purpose the OP wants it to.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

And, inspired by some(!) in this thread, i am looking at 503 bodies now.

What happened to wanting your 553ELX to see the world?

 

[eli griggs]

The image will be upside down when you do this.
A challenge for some, and not a problem for others.

Being square, it won't make a difference, after all, the enlarger only makes use of one negative at a time and as long as you make corrections for the print's

 

[Mike Lopez]

How many people get clocked in the head with the monopod while holding the camera sideways at eye level?

 

[MattKing]

Being square, it won't make a difference, after all, the enlarger only makes use of one negative at a time and as long as you make corrections for the print's

When you orient a waist level finder equipped camera that way, the image of the subject in the viewfinder of the camera is upside down and laterally reversed.
So, using the shot I posted earlier as an illustration, if the scene looks like this in real life:

It will look like this in the viewfinder:

For a fast moving, protest environment, I would find that a challenge.

 

[BrianShaw]

There may not be a meeting-of-the-minds on what, “turn the Hasselblad with the WLF on its side” means.

 

[MattKing]

There may not be a meeting-of-the-minds on what, “turn the Hasselblad with the WLF on its side” means.

This is one of those things that is far easier to demonstrate in real life, than it is to describe on the internet!
I confess I pulled out my Mamiya C330 with WLF to confirm my recollection .

 

[eli griggs]

Confusion about finding your composition in your waist level finder may be experienced by folks with no or small background of large format cameras or only 35mm SLR, but you've already got the camera, lenses and other kit to go shooting, now and practice/learn how to adjust to various usages of that kit.

This is something using a press camera, such as the handheld Speed Graphic, "on the go" can help with or just use what you have to learn, as many have, the Hasselblad, with as many WLF positions you can think of.

In a cloud, or a less terromulesd

 

[RezaLoghme]

***

P.S. I don't know if there is a 60mm lens for the Hasselblad, but doesn't matter, you get my drift.

Hasselblad 60mm f/3.5 Distagon CF T* Lens for Hasselblad 500 Series V System {Bayonet 60}

The compactness, low weight and great depth-of-field make this a very popular all-purpose lens. The Distagon CF 3.5/60 mm lens is a fast, light and compact wide-angle lens. This Distagon lens provides an object field which is approx. 80% larger than that

www.keh.com

 

[Don_ih]

How many people get clocked in the head with the monopod while holding the camera sideways at eye level?

Ah, that was funny....

Confusion about finding your composition in your waist level finder may be experienced by folks with no or small background of large format cameras or only 35mm SLR, but you've already got the camera, lenses and other kit to go shooting, now and practice/learn how to adjust to various usages of that kit.

This is something using a press camera, such as the handheld Speed Graphic, "on the go" can help with or just use what you have to learn, as many have, the Hasselblad, with as many WLF positions you can think of.

A Speed Graphic is generally not used as a "press camera" by looking at the ground glass. The rangefinder or relying on depth of field was standard practice.

And I don't think Matt was talking about confusion as much as disorientation and motion sickness.

Anyway, in unpredictable situations, you want your view of reality to be unobstructed not obfuscated.

 

[RezaLoghme]

I'd love that. I could just see myself directing the whole affair. "Hey! You! Yeah! You, with the smoke bomb! Could you move a little to the right, please? Thanks!"

Seriously though, I was going on the little information that has been given so far (a starting to regret jumping back into this thread). Not knowing in which country this take place, who the protesters are, what they are protesting against (or for), kind of forces one to go out on a limb, hoping that this will lead to a bit more info leaking.

There are many kinds of authoritarian countries, and many degrees of authoritarianism — without going into the forbidden subject of politics, there are plenty of recent examples of protests in democratic countries that turned into riots, and plenty of recent examples of protests in authoritarian states which were allowed to go about their business with the protesters simply and quietly arrested right after.

So, impossible to infer risk without info. And the who, what, where, when goes straight to the subject matter of which gear may or may not fit the purpose the OP wants it to.

Hello Alex,

The project is located in the capital city of a country in the Caucasus or Central Asia. For privacy reasons, I cannot provide more specific details to protect myself, the people involved, and my intellectual property. I am not here to advertise the project but to seek technical input. Some of the feedback I have received has been quite helpful, while other comments have been less so, but I can overlook that. I hope you understand. Thank you.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

This reminds me that the great Chris Killip did all his important documentary work with a hand-held 4x5 camera. This includes not only the work done in Skinningrove but also, and more astonishingly, the photographs he took in the punk dance club The Station, which must have been pretty much like shooting a perpetual riot.

He wrote : "When I first went to The Station in April 1985, I was amazed by the energy and feel of the place. It was totally different, run for and by the people who went there. Every Saturday that I could, I photographed there. Nobody ever asked me where I was from or even who I was. A 39-year-old with cropped white hair, always wearing a suit, with pockets stitched inside the jacket to hold my slides. With a 4 x 5 camera around my neck and a Norman flash and its battery around my waist, I must have looked like something out of a 1950s B movie."

 

[eli griggs]

A great shot, I wonder how large his prints were?

 

[Alex Benjamin]

The project is located in the capital city of a country in the Caucasus or Central Asia. For privacy reasons, I cannot provide more specific details to protect myself, the people involved, and my intellectual property. I am not here to advertise the project but to seek technical input.

I'm curious. Without divulging information that might put people's lives in danger, can you tell me how this project went from doing an Ara Güler-style reportage of the people of this city to focusing on photographing a protest? While I'm not an expert, I'm familiar with Güler's work. His emphasis is on people, ordinary people — poor people, dock workers, fishermen, small cafe or shop owners, school children going about their daily affairs. I don't see protest photography there, or anything ressembling photojournalism. Or is this protest just one part of the project?

Some of the feedback I have received has been quite helpful, while other comments have been less so

Yeah, I always thought Internet forums should come with a warning regarding the risk of that happening .

Joking aside, hope you do come out of this with the info you need.

 

[RezaLoghme]

I want to avoid taking photos of the stereotypical images of that city. The protests are comtemporary, and. that is what I want to capture.

Güler, as you might know, has also documented the Istanbul pogroms, not only the grainy harbour scenes he is known for.

 

[Don_ih]

The protests are comtemporary, and. that is what I want to capture.

What do you intend to do with the photos? Sell them to a newspaper, magazine, or website?

 

[RezaLoghme]

it is not clear yet what the end product is going to look like; it could range from an illustrated essay to a book-on-demand. Maybe some prints (on artisan paper and framed) might end up in a charity auction for a cause related to that whole place, or just be recylcled into personal gifts (i.e. photo book) for people that have or have not to do with the whole thing, as "networking currency" on a very personalized level.

"Selling" is not part of the plan; I am an amateur and my output is probably not "sales-worthy". It is not my plan to make any kind of (financial) profit from this. I will gain a lot from it in other ways (memories, insights emotions, people), as I have gained from previous projects of a similar kind.

 

[pentaxuser]

Hello Alex,

The project is located in the capital city of a country in the Caucasus or Central Asia. For privacy reasons, I cannot provide more specific details to protect myself, the people involved, and my intellectual property. I am not here to advertise the project but to seek technical input. Some of the feedback I have received has been quite helpful, while other comments have been less so, but I can overlook that. I hope you understand. Thank you.

If it is the country I am thinking of that meets what you have said above then I'd be far from sure that anything near a protest other than maybe a very small camera or the ubiquitous i phone camera will not be a problem. A monopod, for instance, might well be spotted by those who will be on the look-out for anything resembling a potential weapon such as a monopod and are authorised to act first and ask questions later

The British Foreign office advises against all travel to the country I have in mind.

Still this has to be purely speculation on my part and presumably you have carefully weighed up all the risks and opportunities wherever it is you are going

Best of luck

pentaxuser

 

[RezaLoghme]

thanks...

 

[Alex Benjamin]

If it is the country I am thinking of that meets what you have said above then I'd be far from sure that anything near a protest other than maybe a very small camera or the ubiquitous i phone camera will not be a problem. A monopod, for instance, might well be spotted by those who will be on the look-out for anything resembling a potential weapon such as a monopod and are authorised to act first and ask questions later

The British Foreign office advises against all travel to the country I have in mind.

Still this has to be purely speculation on my part and presumably you have carefully weighed up all the risks and opportunities wherever it is you are going

Best of luck

pentaxuser

I'm with pentaxuser. There's peaceful march, there's protest, and there's protest that turns into riot. If you are dealing with the latter, you — a self-described amateur, without press identification — will have to remain pretty far on the outside if you don't want to put yourself in danger. The Hasselblad might be good for photographing the aftermath, as the streets are emptying or once they are empty, but if you are indeed dealing with a riot (or the possibility of) and you absolutely want to shoot this on film, then any solid SLR with either a zoom or a small variety of lenses and a good meter will be much more adequate.

And by "variety of lenses" I include a good telephoto. Things turn violent, you don't know how far you might have to go in order to shoot what's happening, if you don't want to get in the middle of it.

Look what happened in Bengladesh the past few days. Student protesters clashing with police. It got very violent, and very chaotic. Press photographers had to stay far during the clashes, which did not prevent them from taking powerful pictures, as shown in this New York Times article (sorry, paywall protected). I've put a few photos below.

I would add that press photographers are provided special training for these circumstances. Photographing a peaceful march can be done by anybody, with just about any equipment, from 35mm to hand-held 4x5, but when in the midst of a clash between riot police and protesters, you need that training to tell you how to stay safe and still get the shot.

Again, not knowing where this takes place, who is protesting and what (or who) they are protesting against — in other words, what chances there are this remains peaceful or veers into rioting — makes it near impossible to adequately give you advice on which gear would be best.

If you believe you might be caught in a situation that can become violent, my suggestion is to find a way to talk to a professional photojournalist who has been in this situation before and get advice on both which gear to take and how to stay safe.

If you know the situation has absolutely no danger of turning violent, then earlier advice stands : take what equipment you know how to use to its full advantages. Mastery of one's photo equipment takes time and a lot of practice, as does mastery of shooting black and white film. If there is no chance the situation can become violent or chaotic, don't buy more gear, focus on and learn to use what you already have.

Bengladesh riots this week by Reuters photojournalist Mohammad Ponir Hossain:

 

[RezaLoghme]

Just to add to the topic of risk - generally, danger can also come from protestors, if they believe the photographer is an "official" one, from the government etc.

There is also some general risk in selecting the right gear - as it had been said before, taking new/unknown equipment to such an event can have the "risk" of exposing oneself to all the aforementioned dangers and ending up with inadequate pics. My X113's autofocus has let me down a few times, and its viewfinder-less architecture does not really lend itself to focussing manually (the rear screen is really useless).

The risk of how much $$$ of gear can be broken - the 553ELX body is 1/4 of a 601 SL.

Etc.

The location is the capital city of a country in Central Asia or Caucasus. Without wanting to generalize - in those countries, police/riot troups might have a somewhat different approach than in some Western countries, but then maybe not. If you look at what happened at protests in Stuttgart (elderly man lost one eye from being hit by a water cannon), one of the most tame and prosperous places in Europe...I dont want to be overly romantic about the region and that specific country I am going, but simply tripping and cracking one's skull on the curb whilst in the middle of a Height-Ashbury-style sit-in with guitars and vegan Martinis can also happen.

So when looking at such a project, I am trying to think holistically (e.g. using CGPT to point out the obvious).

 

[BrianShaw]

Seems like risk is a problem in some places, whether its a protest/riot situation or just existing on the streets... and not just less developed countries, as you point out, and not just Europe/Asia either. Any kind of camera or photography seems to incite retaliatory response from both authorities and thugs... so it mgiht be all the same in terms of loss risk. The biggest losss would be the loss of images and the loss of ability to make more.

But what's a"vegan martini"? That sound like a good reason to riot.