B&W Equipment/Developer Needed

[srtviper15]

Consistency is rewarding in this endeavour.
But with black and white, as long as you are within a few degrees of 68F/20C, you can maintain consistency by making simple time adjustments.
In my case, my workflow means that I always develop at the ambient temperature in the room - there are simple formulas/graphs/tables or calculator dials that make the adjustment simple.
You won't be using a sous vide though for black and white, as they aren't set up to maintain temperatures near to room temperature.

Awesome! I’m really looking forward to it!
I will look up tables and graphs to help in the process. I will just save the sous vide for my color endeavors when I get there.

 

[srtviper15]

You don't have to cut your practice roll from the spool.
In fact, many of us don't cut the spool off until the reel has been almost completely loaded.

That’s a good point, I will follow up on some videos on the process.

For practice I’ll plan to just start to load the spool almost all the way onto the reel and then roll it back onto the spool to practice again.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Thanks! I really want to use XTOL but might use that after I get some experience with development first!

Update: Replenished XTOL is just kepp topping it up as you use it with fresh powder correct?

No, not powder. Into the partially filled container of replenished XTOL, pour 70ml Stock XTOL per roll, then fill with the rest of the replenished XTOL from the tank, and discard whatever is left over. If you want more details or information, just ask me.

 

[srtviper15]

No, not powder. Into the partially filled container of replenished XTOL, pour 70ml Stock XTOL per roll, then fill with the rest of the replenished XTOL from the tank, and discard whatever is left over. If you want more details or information, just ask me.

I would love more details! Because I plan on ultimately going to XTOL after 4-8 rolls of B&W with 1 shot developer. If you want to message me that works!

 

[MattKing]

Use the XTol first - I would recommend either re-using the stock solution, as recommended in the datasheet, or using it one shot with the 1 + 1 dilution.
Then, if you are interested, you can easily switch to whatever option you prefer, including a replenishment regime.

 

[srtviper15]

Use the XTol first - I would recommend either re-using the stock solution, as recommended in the datasheet, or using it one shot with the 1 + 1 dilution.
Then, if you are interested, you can easily switch to whatever option you prefer, including a replenishment regime.

Thanks! I’ll just start with XTol and take it from there.

 

[BillBaileyImages]

Great recommendations so far! In my experience, consistency is essential. If you're somewhat obsessive (as I am), your note-taking should start with shooting notes, then processing notes, and results notes. I recommend you change only one variable at a time, and when you move to color, your good B/W habits will serve you well. When you work in the Zone system, you will want to establish a film speed--and that's virtually impossible without consistency. Shooting a gray card will help to chart your progress. So much fun in your future! Always more to learn. I've been processing film since 1954, and there is not a day that I don't learn something new. As Omer (the owner of CatLabs) always says, "Shoot more film."

 

[Agulliver]

I use a really handy app on my phone, "Film Developer Pro" which cost something silly like 3 dollarpounds. You can select your film size, film brand/type, developer, ISO speed you shot at (for push and pull), and temperature of your chemicals for pretty much any feasible B&W film/developer combo. And you can select how often you agitate, and for how long. The app will then give you a recommended development time and has a countdown timer built in with audible pips to fill the tank, to agitate and to end your process and empty the tank.

+1 on not starting with stand or semi stand development. I know some folk swear by it but in something nearly 40 years of developing film I've never even felt a need to try. The easiest place to try is with a common film and developer combo, shoot at box speed and follow the film manufacturer's instructions. You can then learn with your first few rolls if you need to tweak your technique. But, barring some unforeseen disaster, you'll get decent results keeping it simple to begin with. Then later have fun with different developers, try stand and semi stand if you like, try pushing and pulling, experiment with different films and then try colour. I've not done C41 but I have done E6 and it's not *that* much more difficult than B&W, the main thing is maintaining a consistent temperature within 0.5C of the standard.

Temperature isn't as vital for B&W as it is with colour but it's not unimportant especially if your room temperature (and thus likely your developer itself) is more than 2C either side of 20C. That's where the app I mentioned can come in handy. Temperature can also affect the contrast of the negatives and you do want to try to avoid development times under 6 minutes if possible.....that way the small deviations in time spent pouring in and out really don't matter.

 

[Sidd]

I will add those to the kit!

Ok, I might just start with what I have first and move to stainless from there!

I will try to find some old film to practice loading with! most on Ebay is pretty expensive! worst case I will just buy a few rolls of Kentmere Pan 400 for $5.29 to try opening and loading! I'll also check Marketplace and Craigslist for old film.

That is a great idea for writing out the steps! I do have a dedicated kitchen time to use. And I will keep in mind the consistently and cleaning up.

Thanks!

Collect some exposed/developed/destroyed roll from a friend, actually only one such is sufficient. Practice loading with that, first in open well lit space. Later try that inside a dark mode room or light proof changing bag.

Definitely try fresh rolls to begin with, and as experienced persons above suggested, start with a one time use liquid developer. In addition to what others suggested, you may try Ilford DDX, I found it it to be very consistent and it doesn't get wasted very soon. In fact, I would suggest you to use all Ilford chemistry, namely Ilfostop stop bath, Ilford Rapid Fix, Ilford washing aid. For wetting agent you use any of the brands, but spend as little as possible.

And, please follow all instructions on the packages meticulously. Ilford has released very good videos regarding film development in YouTube, you may follow those.

 

[Romanko]

Welcome!

A few tips. A shower cabin with some sort of arrangement to hang film is a good substitute for a drying cabinet. Run hot water for a few minutes in the shower before hanging the film. The steam will remove dust from the air.

I always wear nitrile gloves when loading film in the changing bag. This protects the film from fingerprints, gives you more freedom with handling the film and removes the sweaty hands problem. I also like the extra friction that the gloves provide. I can just gently touch the film with my gloved hand and slide it into the reel.

Another tip is to put a cutting mat into the change bag to have a clean and flat work surface.

Paterson plastic reels are adequate to start with. I eventually replaced them with JC and Poilot which are better. Remember to fully dry wet plastic reels before reusing them.

Plastic bottles are sufficient to start with but if you can find 1L wide-mouth amber glass lab bottles they are a good investment. I don't need to bother with funnels and can comfortably pour the chemistry in and out of the bottles straight out of and into the tank.

And the main advice: Don't overthink it. B&W process is very forgiving. You have everything you need. Go and shoot some film and start developing (and if anything goes wrong we are always here to help).

 

[tykos]

powder developers usually last 6 months (i tried even a little more) without problems, if closed tightly. 6 months is usually the manifacturer's indication.
Liquid developers last...nobody knows. Old rodinal and hc-110 were immortal but the new formulations sometimes are not. Nobody knows when they die (it depends a lot on how you treat the bottle) and when they do they usually leave you with a blank roll.
All this scary words to say: don't just buy right now the biggest bottle you can find. Sure, it's cheaper than the smaller ones, but if you cannot consume it in a decent time you'll have to throw it anyway...
(1L of rodinal can develop 160 rolls at 1+50 dilutions, if i'm not wrong. those are a lot of rolls)

 

[srtviper15]

Great recommendations so far! In my experience, consistency is essential. If you're somewhat obsessive (as I am), your note-taking should start with shooting notes, then processing notes, and results notes. I recommend you change only one variable at a time, and when you move to color, your good B/W habits will serve you well. When you work in the Zone system, you will want to establish a film speed--and that's virtually impossible without consistency. Shooting a gray card will help to chart your progress. So much fun in your future! Always more to learn. I've been processing film since 1954, and there is not a day that I don't learn something new. As Omer (the owner of CatLabs) always says, "Shoot more film."

Really looking forward to it! I will take a ton of notes. I am ordering some film shot books today.

 

[srtviper15]

I use a really handy app on my phone, "Film Developer Pro" which cost something silly like 3 dollarpounds. You can select your film size, film brand/type, developer, ISO speed you shot at (for push and pull), and temperature of your chemicals for pretty much any feasible B&W film/developer combo. And you can select how often you agitate, and for how long. The app will then give you a recommended development time and has a countdown timer built in with audible pips to fill the tank, to agitate and to end your process and empty the tank.

+1 on not starting with stand or semi stand development. I know some folk swear by it but in something nearly 40 years of developing film I've never even felt a need to try. The easiest place to try is with a common film and developer combo, shoot at box speed and follow the film manufacturer's instructions. You can then learn with your first few rolls if you need to tweak your technique. But, barring some unforeseen disaster, you'll get decent results keeping it simple to begin with. Then later have fun with different developers, try stand and semi stand if you like, try pushing and pulling, experiment with different films and then try colour. I've not done C41 but I have done E6 and it's not *that* much more difficult than B&W, the main thing is maintaining a consistent temperature within 0.5C of the standard.

Temperature isn't as vital for B&W as it is with colour but it's not unimportant especially if your room temperature (and thus likely your developer itself) is more than 2C either side of 20C. That's where the app I mentioned can come in handy. Temperature can also affect the contrast of the negatives and you do want to try to avoid development times under 6 minutes if possible.....that way the small deviations in time spent pouring in and out really don't matter.

Thanks, I will look into the app.

I'm really looking forward to the results!

I do have a thermometer to monitor the temp, so I will use it for B&W also.

 

[srtviper15]

Collect some exposed/developed/destroyed roll from a friend, actually only one such is sufficient. Practice loading with that, first in open well lit space. Later try that inside a dark mode room or light proof changing bag.

Definitely try fresh rolls to begin with, and as experienced persons above suggested, start with a one time use liquid developer. In addition to what others suggested, you may try Ilford DDX, I found it it to be very consistent and it doesn't get wasted very soon. In fact, I would suggest you to use all Ilford chemistry, namely Ilfostop stop bath, Ilford Rapid Fix, Ilford washing aid. For wetting agent you use any of the brands, but spend as little as possible.

And, please follow all instructions on the packages meticulously. Ilford has released very good videos regarding film development in YouTube, you may follow those.

Thanks for the recommendations for the developer. I will follow all instructions with precision.

 

[srtviper15]

Welcome!

A few tips. A shower cabin with some sort of arrangement to hang film is a good substitute for a drying cabinet. Run hot water for a few minutes in the shower before hanging the film. The steam will remove dust from the air.

I always wear nitrile gloves when loading film in the changing bag. This protects the film from fingerprints, gives you more freedom with handling the film and removes the sweaty hands problem. I also like the extra friction that the gloves provide. I can just gently touch the film with my gloved hand and slide it into the reel.

Another tip is to put a cutting mat into the change bag to have a clean and flat work surface.

Paterson plastic reels are adequate to start with. I eventually replaced them with JC and Poilot which are better. Remember to fully dry wet plastic reels before reusing them.

Plastic bottles are sufficient to start with but if you can find 1L wide-mouth amber glass lab bottles they are a good investment. I don't need to bother with funnels and can comfortably pour the chemistry in and out of the bottles straight out of and into the tank.

And the main advice: Don't overthink it. B&W process is very forgiving. You have everything you need. Go and shoot some film and start developing (and if anything goes wrong we are always here to help).

Thank you for the helpful tips!

I really like the one about the cutting mat into the changing bag!

Trying my best to not overthink it. But I think I will be fine!

 

[srtviper15]

powder developers usually last 6 months (i tried even a little more) without problems, if closed tightly. 6 months is usually the manifacturer's indication.
Liquid developers last...nobody knows. Old rodinal and hc-110 were immortal but the new formulations sometimes are not. Nobody knows when they die (it depends a lot on how you treat the bottle) and when they do they usually leave you with a blank roll.
All this scary words to say: don't just buy right now the biggest bottle you can find. Sure, it's cheaper than the smaller ones, but if you cannot consume it in a decent time you'll have to throw it anyway...
(1L of rodinal can develop 160 rolls at 1+50 dilutions, if i'm not wrong. those are a lot of rolls)

I will start small and work my way up. Thanks!

 

[mshchem]

Best source of information for beginners is Ilford Photo.

 

[srtviper15]

Plastic bottles are sufficient to start with but if you can find 1L wide-mouth amber glass lab bottles they are a good investment. I don't need to bother with funnels and can comfortably pour the chemistry in and out of the bottles straight out of and into the tank.

Something like these?
Amber Wide-Mouth Glass Jars - 32 oz
They are 32 oz so only about 946ml not the full 1L would the 50+ ml make a big difference?

 

[srtviper15]

Best source of information for beginners is Ilford Photo.

Thanks!!!

 

[MattKing]

1. That recommendation from Ilford Photo to use a film squeegee is very controversial - unless those squeegees are kept in perfect condition, kept scrupulously clean, and used correctly, they can easily damage film.
2. Chances are good that those Amber Glass Jars are big enough to hold a litre, because many US quart size containers do. Some US providers seem to think that including metric information will scare US purchasers away! But otherwise, the difference isn't likely to matter much.

 

[srtviper15]

1. That recommendation from Ilford Photo to use a film squeegee is very controversial - unless those squeegees are kept in perfect condition, kept scrupulously clean, and used correctly, they can easily damage film.
2. Chances are good that those Amber Glass Jars are big enough to hold a litre, because many US quart size containers do. Some US providers seem to think that including metric information will scare US purchasers away! But otherwise, the difference isn't likely to matter much.

Thank you, I was not planning on using a squeegee in my process. I have heard some horror stories with just a little bit of research. And just paying attention to different forms and the Analog subreddit.

Ok, I will give those a try. Worst case I can always return!

Thanks!

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Amber bottles are a waste of money. An egregious waste if chemistry is kept in the darkroom or in a storage cupboard.

Plastic bottles are a good idea as they don't shatter when dropped.

All the bottles you need are at the grocery store. A high quality 1 liter PET bottle, full of soda, can be had for less than a price for a plastic bottle at the photo store.

Superb 1 gallon PE bottles are available at Costco, each holding a gallon of mango, papaya or passion fruit juice. Unfortunately the labels are fused into the bottle and can't be removed.

All that said, my darkroom is stocked with Nalgene bottles bought from an outfit in Texas that sells crates of things that fell off the back of a truck or were backed into with a Towmotor and declared salvage by the insurance company. I think it will take me the rest of my life to go through the 144 boxes of KimWipes that came in a cardboard carton with a crushed corner. It is hard to crush a Nalgene bottle or box of lint-free kleenex. Try ebay - a lot of salvage shows up there.

I have used my fingers, naked or clothed in nitrile, for squeeging 35mm and 120 negatives for the past 60+ years with nary a scratch to show for it. Never have to search for the squeegee or wonder if there is a grain of sand hiding in it.

 

[tykos]

or: no need to squeegee anything. When using photoflo (costs next to nothing, lasts forever) just a slight film of water stays on the film that will dry in a short amount of time leaving no traces.
Using a proper squeegee or fingers or gloves is always one step more that could go wrong.

 

[Romanko]

Something like these?
Amber Wide-Mouth Glass Jars - 32 oz
They are 32 oz so only about 946ml not the full 1L would the 50+ ml make a big difference?

This is what I use:

Wide neck bottles 1000 ml, amber DIN 68, w/o 9072167 screw-cap pack of 12 | LabFriend Australia

Wide neck bottles 1000 ml, amber DIN 68, w/o 9072167 screw-cap pack of 12

www.labfriend.com.au

Color chemistry comes in 1L kits so the 54 ml excess might be a problem unless this bottle can hold a bit more if filled to the rims (which you want to reduce oxidation). As @Nicholas Lindan said, not an essential item, can be replaced with whatever you can source from a local supermarket, but I like the convenience these bottles offer (plus they last forever if not dropped).

A notebook is indeed the most important tool in your development kit. Get into the habit of writing down all your development parameters (date and time, film, developer, temperature, development time, agitation regime etc.) starting with the first roll you process. Add information on when you mixed your chemistry solutions so that you can replace them based on time and capacity.

 

[mshchem]

Squeegees scratch film.