B&H Lists XTOl (5L) as Discontinued

htmlguru4242 · Aug 13, 2023

I was putting an order together on B&H yesterday, and figured I'd add a pack of XTOL to the order so I have one as a backup. Their site lists it as "discontinued".

It seems to be available everywhere else, and I see no product notice from Kodak. Anybody have any idea what's up with this? Did B&H just stop carrying it? I didn't call them to ask, because those kinds of questions historically haven't gotten me anywhere with them (though their customer service has been otherwise fantastic).

logan2z · Aug 13, 2023

Same story with HC-110. I spoke to B&H and they said it was no longer being made.

htmlguru4242 · Aug 13, 2023

I've heard mixed things about HC-110 as well (though it's not something that I personally use). I know it was reformulated in 2019, and beyond that, I haven't heard anything.

john_s · Aug 13, 2023

Maybe it's temporarily unavailable and the system at B&H shows it as discontinued?

Kino · Aug 13, 2023

I have had almost identical results with LegacyPro EcoPro Ascorbic Acid developer from Freestyle as a replacement for XTOL.

YMMV.

logan2z · Aug 13, 2023

john_s said:
Maybe it's temporarily unavailable and the system at B&H shows it as discontinued?

That's what I thought might have been the case with HC-110 which is why I reached out to B&H for clarification. The person I spoke to said the product was no longer being made. I guess it's possible he was wrong.

Ian C · Aug 13, 2023

An inquiry to Kodak Alaris should clarify this.

MattKing · Aug 13, 2023

Ian C said:
An inquiry to Kodak Alaris should clarify this.

Kodak Alaris sold the photo-chemical business to Sino-Promise Holdings 3.5 years ago.

htmlguru4242 said:
I've heard mixed things about HC-110 as well (though it's not something that I personally use). I know it was reformulated in 2019, and beyond that, I haven't heard anything.

There is product around that has the pre-2019 MSDS, and Sino Promise/post-2020 labelling. Some of that Sino Promise labelling says "Made in EU" and some of it says "Made in China". The variation in labelling seems to reflect the market it is sold into.
Some of the product seemed to show up after some labs started receiving notifications from the distributors that sold Kodak colour paper and chemicals that those products were no longer available.

Steven Lee · Aug 13, 2023

I must admit having Xtol PTSD. Saw this thread here late last night with a glass of bourbon in hand. Ordered three bags of Xtol at Freestyle on the spot. This morning found 2 more bags in the garage and recalled getting them upon hearing of rumors of Kodak chemistry disappearing. Took those bags to the laundry room where the rest of my chemicals are. Found two more bags there! Then I recalled that those came in as replacements for the defective batch during COVID-19.

Looks like I have 7 bags now, enough for ~4 years at my current usage rate and I won't be surprised if I find 3-5 more bags stashed in random places around the house by the end of the day.

rcphoto · Aug 13, 2023

Steven Lee said:
I must admit having Xtol PTSD. Saw this thread here late last night with a glass of bourbon in hand. Ordered three bags of Xtol at Freestyle on the spot. This morning found 2 more bags in the garage and recalled getting them upon hearing of rumors of Kodak chemistry disappearing. Took those bags to the laundry room where the rest of my chemicals are. Found two more bags there! Then I recalled that those came in as replacements for the defective batch during COVID-19.

Looks like I have 7 bags now, enough for ~4 years at my current usage rate and I won't be surprised if I find 3-5 more bags stashed in random places around the house by the end of the day.

Keep them dry and they should last no problem.

MCB18 · Aug 13, 2023

logan2z said:
Same story with HC-110. I spoke to B&H and they said it was no longer being made.

I would take this with a large grain of salt. Chances are the person you talked to simply saw the “discontinued” note and responded accordingly, and doesn’t actually know what the situation is. However, it is entirely possible that with all the chemistry uncertainty, it really isn’t being made anymore. L

I ordered a bag from Freestyle and am very glad I did now.

htmlguru4242 · Aug 13, 2023

Steven Lee said:
I must admit having Xtol PTSD. Saw this thread here late last night with a glass of bourbon in hand. Ordered three bags of Xtol at Freestyle on the spot. This morning found 2 more bags in the garage and recalled getting them upon hearing of rumors of Kodak chemistry disappearing. Took those bags to the laundry room where the rest of my chemicals are. Found two more bags there! Then I recalled that those came in as replacements for the defective batch during COVID-19.

Looks like I have 7 bags now, enough for ~4 years at my current usage rate and I won't be surprised if I find 3-5 more bags stashed in random places around the house by the end of the day.

At least you're not stashing bags of a different kind of off-white powder around the house ... that would be the sign of a real problem. Obviously none of us have ever collected or purchased an unhealthy amount of photographic stuff ... right?

I did this with rolls of Efke KB25 for awhile. Found them probably 10 years later.

MCB18 · Aug 13, 2023

htmlguru4242 said:
Obviously none of us have ever collected or purchased an unhealthy amount of photographic stuff ... right?

Absolutely not! I definitely don’t have more film then I will ever use… and I definitely didn’t just buy a machine to help make 100 ft rolls of film to sell, that would be extremely irresponsible of me…

In all seriousness, I think everyone in this hobby buys a ton of something or other, even if in the back of their mind they know they won’t ever use all of it…

htmlguru4242 · Aug 13, 2023

MCB18 said:
and I definitely didn’t just buy a machine to help make 100 ft rolls of film to sell, that would be extremely irresponsible of me…

Hey, we have a [mostly] free-market economy ... Let's just call it an "investment in a capital good".

Are you re-spooling 400' rolls of cine film, or is this a secret endeavor?

I've considered buying buying a reel of Vision3 stock and bulk loading it into cartridges, but I don't have way to handle 400' of film, and I can just see myself chasing around a big reel of film on the floor in the dark.

Paul Howell · Aug 13, 2023

How many versions of Xtol made by others are there? Legacy Pro, and Foma's Excel comes to mind. I guess is there was a niche in the market Photographers Formulary would backfill. I find it odd that ILford never offered a vision, they did D76, HC 100 and Tmax developer.

MCB18 · Aug 13, 2023

htmlguru4242 said:
Hey, we have a [mostly] free-market economy ... Let's just call it an "investment in a capital good".

Are you re-spooling 400' rolls of cine film, or is this a secret endeavor?

I've considered buying buying a reel of Vision3 stock and bulk loading it into cartridges, but I don't have way to handle 400' of film, and I can just see myself chasing around a big reel of film on the floor in the dark.

Yeah, planning on splitting a few 400 ft rolls into 100 ft loads after I finish cutting Aviphot sheets (assuming people want 100 ft rolls of XX or E100D). I don’t wanna hijack this thread, but definitely feel free to PM if you’re interested.

mshchem · Aug 13, 2023

Steven Lee said:
I must admit having Xtol PTSD. Saw this thread here late last night with a glass of bourbon in hand. Ordered three bags of Xtol at Freestyle on the spot. This morning found 2 more bags in the garage and recalled getting them upon hearing of rumors of Kodak chemistry disappearing. Took those bags to the laundry room where the rest of my chemicals are. Found two more bags there! Then I recalled that those came in as replacements for the defective batch during COVID-19.

Looks like I have 7 bags now, enough for ~4 years at my current usage rate and I won't be surprised if I find 3-5 more bags stashed in random places around the house by the end of the day.

I have a similar situation

Alex Benjamin · Aug 13, 2023

Paul Howell said:
I find it odd that ILford never offered a vision, they did D76, HC 100 and Tmax developer.

They might see their Ilfosol 3 as "close enough," while admitting it's not the same.

John Wiegerink · Aug 13, 2023

I used the last of my Xtol-R a few months back and switched to Adox XT-3 because I saw the handwriting on the wall. I'm very satisfied with XT-3 and actually like it better, but that's just my opinion.

koraks · Aug 14, 2023

htmlguru4242 said:
I don't have way to handle 400' of film, and I can just see myself chasing around a big reel of film on the floor in the dark.

It's not that complicated and there are several ways to go about it. There are some dedicated 400ft loaders (mostly of Chinese manufacture) on the marketplace. Then there's the possibility to design one (or take an existing design) and 3D print it (or outsource that job). What I did was just make a board with two spindles and a handle so I could spool film from a 400ft reel onto new cores, splitting the big roll into 100ft ones and then using those in regular loaders.

This is one of those things that can be solved in several ways, depending on how fancy you want to get with it, but it's perfectly feasible.

Thomas71 · Aug 14, 2023

Even here in Europe XTOL is no longer available... bye-bye Kodak... it was the only Kodak product that I continue to use, otherwhise fully converted to Ilford products (much reliable and affordable than Kodak). Too bad that Ilford doesn't have an equivalent of XTOL... now I hope Adox keeps production and availabilty of XT-3 developer... although I have to run new tests to use it properly.
RIP XTOL

koraks · Aug 14, 2023

Thomas71 said:
now I hope Adox keeps production and availabilty of XT-3 developer

If that fails, there's always Foma and other manufacturers with XTOL clones. It's even quite easy to brew one yourself; I do this routinely.

koraks · Aug 14, 2023

Tsubasa said:
it's meaningless to home brew

No, it isn't 'meaningless', because a substitute can be made that's so close to the real thing as to make no meaningful differences for the vast majority of users. That it might not work for you for whatever reason, doesn't make it meaningless by definition.

koraks · Aug 14, 2023

"Substitute" is not the same as "exact equivalent". It's very meaningful to use an acceptable substitute for a product if such is available. It appears that for the vast majority of users, there are reasonable substitutes for genuine XTOL. There's nothing 'meaningless' about it.

I find the word choice 'meaningless' in the way you use it here unnecessarily provoking and argumentative. There's no need for it.

Anon Ymous · Aug 14, 2023

Tsubasa said:
Since there isn't a public formula of the exact Xtol, it's meaningless to home brew it because it will not be Xtol, nor Foma Excel is, nor Adox Xt-3 is.
Xtol is only Kodak Xtol.

There's the patent formula, which I have tried and I am very pleased with. It would be very hard to make a proper comparison between the patent formula and the actual product, but in my experience it works flawlessly and gives results that one would expect from Xtol. I have used the development times proposed in the Xtol datasheet and they work fine. I have even reused the developer and extended times according to the instructions, getting excellent results.

So, it's certainly anything but meaningless.

B&H Lists XTOl (5L) as Discontinued

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