At which shutter speed does the mirror slap from a Hasseblabec irrelevant for handheld photography?

[Juan Valdenebro]

I don't have many rolls right now as for spending one in a test... I have one fp4, one tri-x and one TMY, that's all, so no way!
I love the size and weight of my Hasselblad with its 80, so I won't get a TLR or RF...
(Moderators' help please: I don't know if this is the right forum for this question...)
My idea is using the 80 alone for this, no other lens... And only for static subjects photography... For real street, DOF, etc., my RF with a 35 is never away, or I feel anguish about vanishing scenes coming...
Thanks...

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I'm sorry about the wrong spelling in the title! Phones!

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Originally I wrote "become irrelevant..."

 

[david schaller]

If you want sharp, and to save film, use a tripod and mirror lockup! It depends on your definition of sharpness, but I wouldn’t handhold below 1/125, and would try to shoot at 1/250.

 

[ic-racer]

In the 1980s I was shooing some slide film for a magazine article on a vintage race car. I had my Rolleiflex SLX on a sturdy tripod but did not have my electronic cable release (and was unable to pre-release the mirror). I used 1/30 second (Kodakrome 25) All the images had slight motion blur
Years later, around 1999 I attached the pistol grip, the massive 40mm Distagon and heavy viewing prism. With that setup I shot a body of B&W work at night at 1/30 and they came out fine. So, increasing the rotational inertial mass around the mirror swing axis helps.

 

[bdial]

As David says, a tripod will do more for improving sharpness than worrying about mirror slap.
This photo was made about 10 feet in the air, I made several exposures, some with mirror lock up and some without. There is no obvious difference as to which is which in the images. All of the exposures were a few to several seconds long. Mirror slap won't be a problem with anything you can hand-hold.

The set up

 

[cjbecker]

One thing that I did pretty regularly when I was shooting the hasselblad more, was pre-release the mirror before I would shoot the picture. I would do it at pretty much any shutter speed, not sure if it really helps too much but it was something I did. I also have the sports finder always attached to the side of the camera. If I have the time, I focus with the gg + magnifier, then shoot with the sportsfinder.

All of that was for handholding, if on a tripod, I ALWAYS pre-release.

 

[Sirius Glass]

As long as the shutter speed is shorter than 1/[lens focal length] seconds I have never had a problem with the so-called non-existent Hasselblad mirror slap. The so-called non-existent Hasselblad mirror slap is a myth and a hoax started by the very jealous Leica RF users started because they are overly proud of their quiet shutters and that cannot accept that some would use a camera other than a beloved Leica RF camera in spite of its lack of what-you-see-is-what-you get focus system.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

If you want sharp, and to save film, use a tripod and mirror lockup! It depends on your definition of sharpness, but I wouldn’t handhold below 1/125, and would try to shoot at 1/250.

Hi David, that's a precise answer, thank you...
I was suspecting 1/125 could be just in the edge, so I wondered if 1/250 was considered the goal by most people, or, if 1/500 was considered an even better idea, or the contrary, totally unnecessary...
I won't do interiors or low light: only outdoors, overcast, and that's good light most of the time... This is not architecture or product, so stopping down is not a requirement...
And I don't want those images to look like tripod work: some out of focus areas are well received as long as there's focus somewhere...

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

As David says, a tripod will do more for improving sharpness than worrying about mirror slap.
This photo was made about 10 feet in the air, I made several exposures, some with mirror lock up and some without. There is no obvious difference as to which is which in the images. All of the exposures were a few to several seconds long. Mirror slap won't be a problem with anything you can hand-hold.

The set up

That's good to know, bdial...
Then maybe the mirror slap worry is no more than just a myth...

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

One thing that I did pretty regularly when I was shooting the hasselblad more, was pre-release the mirror before I would shoot the picture. I would do it at pretty much any shutter speed, not sure if it really helps too much but it was something I did. I also have the sports finder always attached to the side of the camera. If I have the time, I focus with the gg + magnifier, then shoot with the sportsfinder.

All of that was for handholding, if on a tripod, I ALWAYS pre-release.

That I forgot to ask... Releasing the mirror without tripod... Kind of hard because of composition, but if it was a clear change in IQ...

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

As long as the shutter speed is shorter than 1/[lens focal length] seconds I have never had a problem with the so-called non-existent Hasselblad mirror slap. The so-called non-existent Hasselblad mirror slap is a myth and a hoax started by the very jealous Leica RF users started because they are overly proud of their quiet shutters and that cannot accept that some would use a camera other than a beloved Leica RF camera in spite of its lack of what-you-see-is-what-you get focus system.

Makes sense... It seems it's all good news... I guess it means with TMY and 1/250, natural soft light can be used, at box speed, inside the f/5.6 - f/2.8 range... That would be enough in my case... I'm excited at this... If I remember well, I have never used my Hasselblad without a tripod, what a pity !

 

[itsdoable]

At which shutter speed does the mirror slap from a Hasseblad beccome irrelevant for handheld photography?

Technically, "mirror slap" is only a problem on a tripod, and not an issue with handheld.

Minimum shutter speed to prevent camera motion during handheld photography is a different matter, and addressed by the previous posts.

 

[AndyH]

F stop should be irrelevant. I have never done comprehensive tests, but find that I can shoot successfully handheld at 1/60th with my Hasselblad with an 80mm lens. A lot of this is based on your shooting technique - holding your breath, setting up in a body-braced stance, and squeezing the shutter button instead of "pushing" it (use your left index finger, like Viktor did). I have a friend who can't hand-hold with 1/125 in medium format, others that can do it at lower speeds than I can. Stick to 1/focal length and you'll have a good start.

Andy​

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

No, not one of them but both...
Do you mean mirror slap can damage tripod's high sharpness, but no tripod general lower sharpness is so low that mirror slap doesn't make it worse?
Not at very slow speeds, and not at very fast speeds either?
Any other source sharing that? I don't remember reading about it...

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

No, not one of them but both...
Do you mean mirror slap can damage tripod's high sharpness, but no tripod general lower sharpness is so low that mirror slap doesn't make it worse?
Not at very slow speeds, and not at very fast speeds either?
Any other source sharing that? I don't remember reading about it...

That was for its doable...

 

[MattKing]

If you handhold any camera, it will impart more movement to the camera than mirror slap ever will.
So you only ever see the results of mirror slap when the camera is used on a tripod or otherwise held stationary.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Thank you, mods.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

If you handhold any camera, it will impart more movement to the camera than mirror slap ever will.
So you only ever see the results of mirror slap when the camera is used on a tripod or otherwise held stationary.

So, if by any chance, while I shoot handheld, and the shot is taken precisely when the camera is totally still between two minimal movements, chances are that mirror slap can act just like with a tripod...
Not common but possible...
What would you prefer, Matt?
Shoul I totally forget about 1/500 and just start my system with a fix 1/250?

 

[MattKing]

So, if by any chance, while I shoot handheld, and the shot is taken precisely when the camera is totally still between two minimal movements, chances are that mirror slap can act just like with a tripod...
Not common but possible...
What would you prefer, Matt?
Shoul I totally forget about 1/500 and just start my system with a fix 1/250?

Unlikely - the problem with mirror slap is that it initiates a type of vibration that may either be amplified or damped by a tripod.
The movement created by hand-holding is entirely different, and often contributed to at least partially by the action of operating the shutter release.
Past a certain point, your technique matters more than your choice of shutter speed.

 

[Richard Man]

Yes, tripod is the best thing. However, I have gotten "sharp" enough photo for 16x16" enlargement with 1/60th and th 80mm lens. A tripod is 10000x better though.

There are definitely good techniques (press shutter at end of exhale, brace camera with your face and body, use the Hassy recommended way or pressing the shutter with the left hand, etc.)

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Unlikely - the problem with mirror slap is that it initiates a type of vibration that may either be amplified or damped by a tripod. /QUOTE]
Are you talking about the slow speeds I won't use?
Or did you mean that happens at fast shutter speeds too?
What speed would you use as minimum for hand holding with an 80mm?
And about you saying unlikely: best low light shooters make 3 or 4 exposures to pick the one taken at that moment when the camera is still between movements...

 

[Sirius Glass]

F stop should be irrelevant. I have never done comprehensive tests, but find that I can shoot successfully handheld at 1/60th with my Hasselblad with an 80mm lens. A lot of this is based on your shooting technique - holding your breath, setting up in a body-braced stance, and squeezing the shutter button instead of "pushing" it (use your left index finger, like Viktor did). I have a friend who can't hand-hold with 1/125 in medium format, others that can do it at lower speeds than I can. Stick to 1/focal length and you'll have a good start.

Andy​

I too can handhold the Hasselblad with the 80mm lens 1/60 second if I need to.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I too can handhold the Hasselblad with the 80mm lens 1/60 second if I need to.

That's great!

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

To start, I'll make 1/250th my speed... And only if light's too low for f/2.8, I'll go for 1/125... Or only if DOF is mandatory, the same...
Thanks everybody!