ARTICLE -- New York May Require Photography Permits

[gr82bart]

Well, I'm not a New Yorker, but I love NYC and I always encourage anyone I meet to visit there. Any day, any time over Kentucky or Virginia.

Regards, Art (Hey, I needed to spice up my popcorn!)

 

[copake_ham]

I'm surprised that some New Yorkers appear to be expressing pride in the fact that their city's waste is dumped on someone else's doorstep. Surely that is something to be thoroughly ashamed of?

Andy,

We do not dump our garbage on someone else's doorstep. We contract with licensed landfill operators and pay plenty to have them properly dispose of it. The fact is that some of these landfill operations are located in Virgina.

The expense of such disposal is why NYC now has one of the most extensive recycling programs of any major US city.

 

[Andy K]

Landfill is not 'proper disposal'.

 

[copake_ham]

Landfill is not 'proper disposal'.

I'm not even going to begin to get into another endless dialogue with you on this one. It's worth neither the time nor effort.

 

[highpeak]

I'm surprised that some New Yorkers appear to be expressing pride in the fact that their city's waste is dumped on someone else's doorstep. Surely that is something to be thoroughly ashamed of?

I wonder where did you see this?

I use the word "not feel guilty anymore", If you see that as expressing pride, then I have nothing else to say.

Every city has it's dark side and bright side, how you see it it's all depend on yourself.

I have seen people work hard, but some people in NYC I have seen are the hardest workers out there. They do take pride in there way of life.

 

[copake_ham]

I wonder where did you see this?

I use the word "not feel guilty anymore", If you see that as expressing pride, then I have nothing else to say.

Every city has it's dark side and bright side, how you see it it's all depend on yourself.

I have seen people work hard, but some people in NYC I have seen are the hardest workers out there. They do take pride in there way of life.

highpeak,

It's not worth "going there" with Andy and friends (e.g. Roger). I've tried reasoning with them - but they are not open minded people.

There is nothing you can say that will dissuade them from their mid-20th Century anti-American rants. They will just go on and on and on.

You have to keep in mind that these guys are "old Europeans" living in the past. They are not like the "new Euros", many of whom are moving into Williamsburg, DUMBO, Greenpoint etc.

Whereas the "Euro newbies" coming over to NYC are dynamic, creative and entreprenaurial - this older group that posts here tends to be living in the past, still following the discredited socialistic paradigm. The idea of someone being a "hard worker" is not something that they can comprehend as representing a positive attribute.

 

[Sean]

Regards, Art (Hey, I needed to spice up my popcorn!)

I'll probably stick with crushing a pack of Tums into powder and sprinkling that on my popcorn, it's a win/win recipe for those special threads

 

[roteague]

Well, I'm not a New Yorker, but I love NYC and I always encourage anyone I meet to visit there. Any day, any time over Kentucky or Virginia.

Regards, Art (Hey, I needed to spice up my popcorn!)

I haven't been to the city in almost 40 years (except the airport in 2000, on my way to Jordan). I'm not much of a city person, but I'd love to catch up with you and David G. Might even get to meet George, if he isn't up in Copake or Tucson. Someday, I will. But, this year, I'm off to Sydney and Nadi, Fiji.

 

[Andy K]

And in an even more serious vein than that - to the fellow in Virginia - I do want to thank you for your hospitality. In case you are unaware of it - most of NYC's garbage is barged and then trucked to landfills in your fair Commonwealth! Enjoy the aroma during this Summer's heat.

That is the 'pride' I was referring to.

...mid-20th Century anti-American rants

George, I don't see dumping waste in landfill as a purely American problem. It is a worldwide problem, one which we, in Europe, are beginning to tackle on a large scale by reducing the use of landfill dramatically through the implementation of recycling and waste management schemes right across society.

So it puzzles me how you see it as 'anti-American' when someone points out that shipping waste out for others to deal with in landfill is not a proper disposal method. Unless, of course, you equate dumping and landfill in someone else's backyard as being part of the 'American way' as you, George, see it?

 

[Curt]

I hope the big apple doesn't become a big sauerkraut. "No officer it's not a Burka it's a dark cloth" "And next your going to tell me that the gun support is a tripod".

I guess the word isn't out that there is shooting and there is shooting. And I thought that Mortenson gig was a kick.

 

[firecracker]

I'm late to the party and sorry I have to bring this up from the article:

In May 2005, Rakesh Sharma, an Indian documentary filmmaker, was using a hand-held video camera in Midtown Manhattan when he was detained for several hours and questioned by police.

During his detention, Mr. Sharma was told he was required to have a permit to film on city property. According to a lawsuit, Mr. Sharma sought information about how permits were granted and who was required to have one but found there were no written guidelines. Nonetheless, the film office told him he was required to have a permit, but when he applied, the office refused to grant him one and would not give him a written explanation of its refusal.

According to the article, it seems that anyone could be the next target by the police for no reason. The Indian guy wasn't only questioned but detained for several hours! I don't know what it's like to be detained for several hours(I don't know how many) for carrying and using a camera. I mean, couldn't the police have just stopped him videotaping and just let him go with a warning and/or notice? I think this kind of things happen in places like Pakistan or China...

And the saddest part of this is that the film office is the one behind this and not helping the photographers and filmmakers! My understanding is that the film office should be the first one to fight against this sort of a restriction because the film office is (supposedly) to encourage all filmmakers and photoraphers to shoot in the city, etc. What about the journalists, including the students using the visual media in public? Are they required, too? And what really happens when they apply for the permit and get denied?

 

[highpeak]

I think that how freak things are and how paranoid the government became.

One is not allowed to stay at one place taking pictures or films no longer than certain period of time(10min for picture and 30min for film?, not sure), on the other hand, one can use google earth to get very detailed info on every big city!

 

[jd callow]

The sad thing about most governments, not just NYC's, is that they would rather erect a new rule, rather than simply do the best job we can to educate and live with the risks of a truly free land.

Governments live to govern, bureaucrats love their jobs -- if left unchecked...


Sorry for the rant.

 

[Kino]

highpeak,

...tends to be living in the past, still following the discredited socialistic paradigm. The idea of someone being a "hard worker" is not something that they can comprehend as representing a positive attribute.

You know when an argument has run aground when the old fright-wig of socialism is trotted-out and shook at the audience.

What this has to do with the ongoing argument/discussion is beyond me, as is Highpeak's strange and totally unrelated remark about how hard working NYC people are (who questioned that? No one!) ; Perhaps a strawman to set up and then deftly knock down?

Bravo!

I guess now I shall be branded Anti-American, a dyed in the wool Red and, even worse, an Old European, should I disagree with you.

That's the American Way; ask Bill O'Reilly, he's always right too...

 

[jovo]

I hope the big apple doesn't become a big sauerkraut. "No officer it's not a Burka it's a dark cloth" "And next your going to tell me that the gun support is a tripod".

I guess the word isn't out that there is shooting and there is shooting. And I thought that Mortenson gig was a kick.

Last year Peter Schrager generously gave me a leather holster made to exactly fit my Soligor/Adorama 1 degree meter. Fat chance I'll be strapping that sucker to my belt in the city any time soon! :rolleyes:

 

[Jersey Vic]

I'm a 2nd generation, life-long NYC resident until 4 years when I moved right across the Hudson River to the great state of New Jersey.
I was in the World Trade Center on September 11th 2001 and 2 members of my family were also within 100 yards of the towers-aka-falling buildings range. I am completely against any restrictions or permits for filming, photography, walking on grass in city parks, tennis, softball field use, etc. That being said, I am not surprised or horrified that such policies are being put forth in light strong evidence that NYC is a/the top terrorist target and wonder how anyone else could be surprised or horrified if similar measures were proposed had the same thing happened where they live.

I believe there are several million video cameras watching the mostly innocent people of England and most of the european countries I've visited required me to be regsitered with the local police via my hotelier. I've accepted these invasions of my privacy when I've chosen to travel there and can only imagine that my privacy will be further invaded next time.

 

[aldevo]

New York City Government: Increasingly friendly to the wishes of big business, increasingly dismissive and hostile to the rights of the individual.

More and more of the city's public (and parking) spaces are cordened off for private parties, additional police parking (even though the force isn't growing), lame redundant street fairs and movie sets but refeeding a parking meter a minute too late will result in $110 ticket for the individual taxpayer.

That being said, it's a stunning place in every way, the food is the best and the people are diverse and fascinating.

I have many friends from New York and they would certainly agree with your observations. New York is getting serious competition from London as the world's investment bank and they are having to be increasingly conciliatory to the large-scale business interests to keep them in town.

The bottom line is that NYC nearly went bankrupt in the mid-70s and they don't want to repeat that near-death experience.

I've now heard rumors from three different sources in the past 6 months that the New York Marathon is about to get the heave-ho from City Hall because the costs and disruption of setting up and managing the course are being borne by "the wrong people". It could be moved out to Bergen County in the next ten years. That would have been inconceivable even a couple years ago.

Will the new regulations be anything more sinister than what they are stated to be? Time will tell...

I love the place and visit it several times a year, but much of the fun is being skimmed away.

 

[aldevo]

I think that how freak things are and how paranoid the government became.

One is not allowed to stay at one place taking pictures or films no longer than certain period of time(10min for picture and 30min for film?, not sure), on the other hand, one can use google earth to get very detailed info on every big city!

Sad to say, I don't think its paranoia per se...

From their standpoint it's pennies from heaven...

They can use the backdrop of security to close the blinds on certain social ills (witness their ban on photography in the subway system a few years back) and erect additional bureaucracies that purchase goods and services from their constituents.

It happens a lot and not just in the USA.

 

[jd callow]

No amount of restrictions on photography is going to make New Yorkers or the commercial interests safer. I doubt it will keep businesses in NY either. Is the regulation a money grab intended to squeeze an extra dime out of photographers and film companies? Other than an attempt at covering their asses as they pretend to be doing something to protect the populace from terrorists with cameras, I have no idea what the law is attempting.

Maybe I'm thick and someone can tell me what this rule is intended to do.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

As best I can tell, the rule is intended to protect the city from liability by making sure that photographers using equipment are insured when they are on city property. That is the context of what this office of city government regulates. It has nothing to do with 9/11, terrorism or security. Police can find other excuses to hassle people for security reasons if they need them--"suspicious behavior" and what not.

 

[Andy K]

I guess now I shall be branded... and, even worse, an Old European, should I disagree with you.

Children often ignore their elders.

 

[jd callow]

As best I can tell, the rule is intended to protect the city from liability by making sure that photographers using equipment are insured when they are on city property. That is the context of what this office of city government regulates. It has nothing to do with 9/11, terrorism or security. Police can find other excuses to hassle people for security reasons if they need them--"suspicious behavior" and what not.

That makes sense, but doesn't explain why the regulation is so vague.

 

[MattKing]

I always find these discussions interesting, especially from the US, with its constitution based on the core phrase "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness"

When you consider this comment, be sure to remember that I am from a country with a constitution which lacks a truly core phrase, but come closest with the truly Canadian phrase "Peace, Order and Good Government".

In recent years, that phrase has been supplemented with the truly melodic "subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society".

It's not just the words, it is how they are used too.

Matt

 

[Uncle Goose]

Within a few years it my look like this in the US:

Police Officer: Hey you!!
Innocent pedestrian (watching the new WTC towers): Uhh, yes sir??
P.O: you were taking mental photographs, weren't you??
I.P: Errr, no, I was just watching those buildi....arrrhhggg (get's kicked)
P.O: Yes, you were doing that, now I will drag you sorry piece of ass to the police station to put you on a transport to a vague loction were they will make you say the names of your terrorist friends.

Yep, this is where it all will go in some years from now.

Glad I live in Belgium where there are no suchs stupid laws. Here I may make photographs without anyone can even touch my gear (otherwise I would kick their ass anyway).

 

[eclarke]

Amazing that our American society wants to control cameras so zealously..here in Milwaukee, everybody in the inner city seems to have a gun in his belt but we can't interfere with their rights...EC