ARTICLE -- New York May Require Photography Permits

[Andy K]

Amazing that our American society wants to control cameras so zealously..here in Milwaukee, everybody in the inner city seems to have a gun in his belt but we can't interfere with their rights...EC

Maybe you need an NRA equivalent, NCA?

 

[dmr]

Maybe you need an NRA equivalent, NCA?

Another idea from that ... here in the States we have 430-{mumble} congressdroids in the House and 100 in the Senate. Out of those 530-some, there HAS to be at least one avid photographer who leans libertarian. (Even if he/she shoots {d-word}.)

The right-to-bear-arms proponents know who their friends on the Hill are. We, however, don't know.

I really don't know how we would identify such people, but it might be worth a little legwork to try to get them to listen.

Oh well ...

 

[Petzi]

Tripod permits are already required,

Where are tripod permits required?

BTW: When a person in a police uniform comes to me, how do I know he is a policeman?

 

[copake_ham]

.....

BTW: When a person in a police uniform comes to me, how do I know he is a policeman?

How do you decide this anywhere else? :confused:

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Where are tripod permits required?

Technically, anywhere in the city on public streets and sidewalks. There are different permits issued for parks. The permit releases the city from liability. Here is some information about the permit and a link to the application--

http://www.nyc.gov/html/film/html/permits/still_photography.shtml

You apply by fax, and they'll fax it back to you.

Practically, you'll only be asked about the permit in areas with heavy pedestrian traffic, which are generally not the areas where I like to shoot anyway, so I don't usually apply for the permit. You'll also be questioned in certain parks (Battery Park area, Fulton's Ferry Landing in Brooklyn), where they are concerned about commercial use, but will usually leave you alone once they've determined that you're not shooting for commercial purposes. Central Park is very camera friendly.

 

[Petzi]

How do you decide this anywhere else? :confused:

A uniform you can get at a renting agency.

In my country, a policeman has to show both a police pass and a badge on request. And they have to have matching numbers as far as I know.

 

[copake_ham]

A uniform you can get at a renting agency.

In my country, a policeman has to show both a police pass and a badge on request. And they have to have matching numbers as far as I know.

Amazing!

In our country, the police (male or female, BTW) wear their badges ON their uniforms. And in NYC (at least), we also require that they wear a name badge.

Then again, we ordinarily consider the police to be our friends and protectors.

Given the history of your country, I guess you do not have that same confidence.

 

[jd callow]

Amazing!

In our country, the police (male or female, BTW) wear their badges ON their uniforms. And in NYC (at least), we also require that they wear a name badge.

Then again, we ordinarily consider the police to be our friends and protectors.

Given the history of your country, I guess you do not have that same confidence.

Not to raise this ugly subject again, but not all in the US look at the police as "our friends and protectors."

 

[copake_ham]

Not to raise this ugly subject again, but not all in the US look at the police as "our friends and protectors."

JD,

Well, yes, that is true. Only the vast majority of us do.

And then again, on that very rare occasion when I have been "pulled over" for allegedly exceeding the posted highway speed limit (although, I NEVER, EVER, go faster than the limit :rolleyes: ), I have muttered some "words" about overbearing police.

But, at the end of the day, few down here in the US look upon our police as "the enemy". Most of us realize that in virtually all times of trouble - they are "first responders" and, as was the case on 9/11, sometimes pay the ultimate price for their efforts.

 

[jd callow]

George,
You live a joyously shelter life.

 

[Petzi]

Amazing!

In our country, the police (male or female, BTW) wear their badges ON their uniforms. And in NYC (at least), we also require that they wear a name badge.

Then again, we ordinarily consider the police to be our friends and protectors.

Given the history of your country, I guess you do not have that same confidence.

I don't see the connection to the history of my country here. All I wanted to say is, you can't trust a person just because they wear a uniform. Anywhere.

 

[Petzi]

895 hits on ebay when I search for "police badge"....

 

[Jim Chinn]

Not to raise this ugly subject again, but not all in the US look at the police as "our friends and protectors."

Very true. And if you gauge police by news stories, you quickly come to the realization that they are pretty much all brutal thugs who would like nothing more than to put a bullet in your head. That's why I think we would be far better off to get rid of police forces and make it madatory for citizens to carry handguns. We can settle most of these law enforcement matters on the streets rather than in the courts. it would also be a heck of a cost saving measure. We can turn police stations into homeless shelters or halfway houses. Give the police cars away to poor families.

 

[Andy K]

and make it madatory for citizens to carry handguns.

A typo, but an apt typo.

 

[jd callow]

Yep Jim that is the correct response to my post. Blow it completely out of proportion. There is of course no grey.

This strange land that I live in -- still not the place described by the media you read and see, but isn't published in mine -- has good cops and some bad, good laws and some bad and sadly it has uneven distribution of both.

Instead of engaging in the discussion dismiss it or better still blame it on the media.

I didn't wish to bring the topic up but George's point was as indefensible as yours.

 

[Petzi]

Yep Jim that is the correct response to my post. Blow it completely out of proportion. There is of course no grey.

What do you expect. APUG is mostly a black & white forum.

 

[Jim Chinn]

I was trying to be a bit sarcastic. But the imprssion I was getting from others was there was no grey area with regards to police.

I'll agree that there are individuals who should not be cops and that abuses of authority occur. But the vast majority of law enforcement officers do a very dangerous and thankless job with skill and dedication in the US. I know a few here in Omaha and they have families and kids and are put in the middle of tough situations all the time that can turn deadly. Don't forget a lot of NYC and Port Authority cops went into the World Trade Center Towers to help and never came back out. That is the kind of people that make up the vast majority of law enforcement in the US. As with this permit law, the cops will be seen as pricks when they enforce the ordinance when the anger needs to be directed at the city government for passing the new law.

I think such laws do nothing to deter crime or terrorism. I suppose I can see the liablity angle from the city's standpoint. But it is similar to having cameras on every street corner. They will do nothing to stop a terrorist attack or crime. They may help catch the criminal, but if the terrorist blows himself up in the attack, who is left to catch?

 

[jd callow]

The majority may be heroes or heroes in waiting. On the flip side many of us don't see the under belly.

In Manistee MI there are the municipal, county police departments and near by is a state trooper training facility. A companion, a small group of local kids and I witnessed a guy in a mini van go through a red light and hit another car. We all saw it this way. The guy (middle aged white, in the khakis and a polo) in the van was a cottage owner (Manistee is a fairly poor town which lives largely off of tourism) from down state. The guy he hit was a hippie type aparently camping near by. The Cops talked to the kids then us. They pretty much dismissed me and my companion. When we talked to the kids they told us the cops said they were mistaken and that the light had changed. None of the kids agreed, but didn’t say that to the cops. The hippie was given a sobriety test, and taken away in cuffs. The next day we started talking to the locals and were told that the cops were hard core and pretty much did what ever they wanted. While in a bar 4 cops came in and walked through the bar eyeballing everyone in a really intimidating way. It reminded me of how gang members will snake through a club so everyone would know they were there. When I asked what the march through was about i was told they did this all the time and that if we drove here we better think twice regardless of how much we had to drink. Another bar sold bumper stickers with the following slogan "Visit Manistee for vacation Leave on Probation." There were similar stories about the state police trainees. Everyone had a story: hotel clerks, diner waitress, family at the adjoining table and every local we met in the two bars we visited.

The fudgies (tourists) and cottage owners we met all thought Manistee was a real safe and lovely place, the locals we talked to seemed to feel differently.

I drove through or worked in Detroit’s richest suburbs (Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills) for years. I'd drive the main drag 10miles an hour over posted with all the other mostly white folk and generally well to do. Meanwhile, we’d pass people of colour driving white knuckled and 10mph under. In 30 years of driving these veins the vast majority of the folks being pulled over where people of colour. I have never met a black or brown person who didn't have a horror story to tell about driving whilst black or brown. The lower they were on the economic scale the more numerous and nasty the stories.

I lived in Ferndale for 15 years. Ferndale is a wonderfully liberal city, that loves to spend money on its police force. A police force that at one time had an unofficial motto of ‘Stand and Hold.’ This being in reference to Detroit, Ferndale’s southern neighbor. In all the years I lived there the vast majority of those pulled over where people of colour. I drive fast and was never pulled over.

I have many many stories along those lines, but I’ll finish with everyone’s’ favourite heros. I was at a wedding a few months after 9/11. One of the guests was a guy I went to college with. He had moved to Manhattan, where he had been living for the last 10 years or so. We talked about 9/11 the great loss of life and the heroics of the police and firefighters, etc. His response was pretty cynical. He sad that from a PR stand point 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened to the fire and police departments as well as the mayors office. He and I were never friends and I don’t think anyone would mistake him for a liberal. One of the more interesting aspects of the stories he told me was that the fire department was notorious for stealing valuables at the scene of their ‘rescues’ the most notable being the cash registers at the bar of the WTC during the first attack.

My point is not that cops are bad, but that there is inequity. The inequity is often concentrated in pockets, not spread out and therefore dilute.

To turn a blind eye to those entrusted with the enforcement of the law is almost as bad as letting those who write the laws write bad laws.

 

[copake_ham]

The majority may be heroes or heroes in waiting. On the flip side many of us don't see the under belly.

In Manistee MI there are the municipal, county police departments and near by is a state trooper training facility. A companion, a small group of local kids and I witnessed a guy in a mini van go through a red light and hit another car. We all saw it this way. The guy (middle aged white, in the khakis and a polo) in the van was a cottage owner (Manistee is a fairly poor town which lives largely off of tourism) from down state. The guy he hit was a hippie type aparently camping near by. The Cops talked to the kids then us. They pretty much dismissed me and my companion. When we talked to the kids they told us the cops said they were mistaken and that the light had changed. None of the kids agreed, but didn’t say that to the cops. The hippie was given a sobriety test, and taken away in cuffs. The next day we started talking to the locals and were told that the cops were hard core and pretty much did what ever they wanted. While in a bar 4 cops came in and walked through the bar eyeballing everyone in a really intimidating way. It reminded me of how gang members will snake through a club so everyone would know they were there. When I asked what the march through was about i was told they did this all the time and that if we drove here we better think twice regardless of how much we had to drink. Another bar sold bumper stickers with the following slogan "Visit Manistee for vacation Leave on Probation." There were similar stories about the state police trainees. Everyone had a story: hotel clerks, diner waitress, family at the adjoining table and every local we met in the two bars we visited.

The fudgies (tourists) and cottage owners we met all thought Manistee was a real safe and lovely place, the locals we talked to seemed to feel differently.

I drove through or worked in Detroit’s richest suburbs (Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills) for years. I'd drive the main drag 10miles an hour over posted with all the other mostly white folk and generally well to do. Meanwhile, we’d pass people of colour driving white knuckled and 10mph under. In 30 years of driving these veins the vast majority of the folks being pulled over where people of colour. I have never met a black or brown person who didn't have a horror story to tell about driving whilst black or brown. The lower they were on the economic scale the more numerous and nasty the stories.

I lived in Ferndale for 15 years. Ferndale is a wonderfully liberal city, that loves to spend money on its police force. A police force that at one time had an unofficial motto of ‘Stand and Hold.’ This being in reference to Detroit, Ferndale’s southern neighbor. In all the years I lived there the vast majority of those pulled over where people of colour. I drive fast and was never pulled over.

I have many many stories along those lines, but I’ll finish with everyone’s’ favourite heros. I was at a wedding a few months after 9/11. One of the guests was a guy I went to college with. He had moved to Manhattan, where he had been living for the last 10 years or so. We talked about 9/11 the great loss of life and the heroics of the police and firefighters, etc. His response was pretty cynical. He sad that from a PR stand point 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened to the fire and police departments as well as the mayors office. He and I were never friends and I don’t think anyone would mistake him for a liberal. One of the more interesting aspects of the stories he told me was that the fire department was notorious for stealing valuables at the scene of their ‘rescues’ the most notable being the cash registers at the bar of the WTC during the first attack.

My point is not that cops are bad, but that there is inequity. The inequity is often concentrated in pockets, not spread out and therefore dilute.

To turn a blind eye to those entrusted with the enforcement of the law is almost as bad as letting those who write the laws write bad laws.

JD,

In all honesty, I really think you made a wise move when you went to Canada. I don't think you could ever be happy down here.

One does not have to hold the police on a pedestal to recognize that the vast majority of cops are honest folk doing an often thankless task. And I say this as a very liberal New Yorker. Besides, I am also an attorney and believe in the rule of law - and, whether we like it or not, law enforcement is a necessary part of a civilized society.

If one seeks to do so, one can find a bad cop, a bad fireman and a bad photographer just about anywhere you look.

The truth be told, if were to I find myself in trouble, say in a car wreck, who would I call: the police or you and Petzi?

 

[Petzi]

What? What did I do? Remember my initial question? I asked: When a policeman comes to me, how can I verify he is legitimate? It hasn't been answered yet. However, there were references to the history of my country, and a general discussion about the police in the USA. Very interesting.

By the way, you can always call me when you are in trouble. I might not be able to help though due to the distance issue.

And if you are in a car wreck, you better call the fire brigade who have the equipment to cut you out, rather than the police. OK, it might be organised differently over there, I don't know... That's why I'm asking questions here.

 

[jd callow]

George in as much as you quoted the post did you read it or is it simply too oblique a point of view for you to wrap your mind around?

Synopsis
Bad regulation not good.

A few bad people enforcing those regulation even worse.

having the bad people concentrated in one spot worse still and possibly not unusual.


The thread is about a regulation that is vaguely written. For those who don't get out much, I have tried to point out that those who are in charge of enforcing regulations sometimes don't do it well.

Should I leave the country, like others pretend I live with Ozzie and Harriet, or aknowledge the facts of life and continue on? Tough call.

 

[Kino]

JD, its all about sloganeering and wrapping oneself in a flag or a belief, ignoring dialog and desperately, frantically fighting off reality while the World crumbles.

Give it up JD; you've explained yourself fully, some people ossify and there is no reaching them...

 

[jd callow]

Thanks kino. I really do mean well.

 

[copake_ham]

George in as much as you quoted the post did you read it or is it simply too oblique a point of view for you to wrap you mind around?

Synopsis
Bad laws not good.

A few bad people enforcing those laws even worse.

having the bad people concentrated in one spot worse still and possibly not unusual.


The thread is about a law that is vaguely written. For those who don't get out much, I have tried to point out that those who are in charge of enforcing the laws sometimes don't do it well.

Should I leave the country, like others pretend I live with Ozzie and Harriet, or aknowledge the facts of life and continue on? Tough call.

JD,

If the rest of the world was a utopia - and my country was the only one with "warts" - I would indeed be concerned by what you write. Last time I checked - this is not the situation yet on the planet. There are at least a few places that have yet to achieve the status of nirvana.

The truth is, the US is the most diverse society on the planet. We may not be paradise - but the fact is - a hell of a lot more people come here than ever leave. It's not as if the lunatic right wing fringe wants to build border walls in order to keep people in!

The "small America" in me would love to see us pull back from just about everywhere and let the rest of the world go about it's business. In fact, let's start by making our friend Petzi happy. How about the US finally pulls out of Europe?

I'm all for that. After all, why the hell do we still have our military folk stationed over there? It's been over 60 years now and everything I read here tells me we're certainly no longer wanted. So, let's start by getting out of Europe.

Oh and yes, let's get out of South Korea, Japan etc. I'm sure those folk will be well and happy without American imperialists smashing a hobnailed boot down on them. They're big boys now, they can certainly work things out with China without us being around. [And I'm lovin' the idea of how much tax dollars we can save by getting out!]

As to the OT, yes, JD, the "photo permit law" (actually it is a regulation), as proposed, is vague and could be abused. Which is why we have courts and very active civil liberties defenders.

You see, that's the difference b/w down here and a police state - there is a very viable system of legal recourse to effectively deal with pompous bureaucrats! As an attorney, I can assure you there are plenty of my colleagues at the bar who will jump at the chance to litigate this one!

 

[gr82bart]

:munch:

Regards, Art (This smiley is awesome!)