Arista EDU Ultra 400/ Fomapan 120 scratches

[Thomas Bertilsson]

When I use this film I get an EI of 400 with Xtol. Any other developer I've tried about EI 200.

I love the look of the film, especially in 35mm format. The grain is beautiful. It's perfect for portraits in my opinion.

- Thomas

 

[RobertV]

Arista.EDU Ultra 400 is quite different. I've tried using it a box speed and it's not so good until you downrate it to about 250. It's kinda curly, but not terribly so; and the grain is about what you'd expect to see from a 400 speed film from the late 1960's through the early '80's. It's not particularly sharp nor is it fast. What it is is inexpensive

Exactly how it is.
iso 250 on most developers. BTW AM74/RHS or Xtol iso 320 and only in Diafine you will reach full box speed according my densitometer.

But these specs you can also see on the data sheets of Fomapan 400.
It curls more because Foma has a support on Polyester with non-curling layer and the A.H. layer is made by a lot of dye.

Grain and sharpness of the 80's which is not bad but not a sophisticated film like Neopan 400, TMY-2 400 or whatever. Which is logical because in the plant in Hradec Kralové they have no better technology available.

Apart from the Q.C. issues, which will be solved, it's a very usefull film which is used worldwide by a lot of photographers.

 

[fschifano]

I'd agree with in all aspects.

Except for the scratches. That is the killer for me. The scratching. If I find a camera that doesn't cause scratching, I will probably use the Arista EDU Ultra 400 for fun street shooting just as you say.

No idea what the yellow triangle means on the new boxes.

Nope, no scratches for me. I use it in two old Mamiya C220's and a Hasselblad 503cx. No scratches, but for sure the lenses on the 'blad can resolve more detail than the film can capture. The Mamiya lenses? Probably. Is that a big deal? No, not if you're shooting hand held and/or not printing large.

Good to hear that this film can reach box speed in Diafine. I've long suspected that to be the case. It's so with the no longer available Arista.EDU Ultra 200. The real gem in the Foma / Arista.EDU Ultra lineup for me is the 100 speed film. This stuff is better than it has a right to be, and will give any of the conventional grained films in its speed class a run for the money. I run it in XTOL 1+2 for anywhere from 6 to 7 minutes at 24C/75F depending on the lighting conditions and I'm really happy with it. Grain is fine, contrast is good, and most of the time I can get box speed easily. One thing I've noticed about all of Foma's films though is that they are very sensitive to over development. Go a little too far and the highlights block up something awful.

I have no idea what the yellow triangle signifies either. Maybe it's just a way to spur sales. Hey the box is different, this must be the new "improved" version. Let's try some. You know how that goes. Look at how the auto industry works. There are multiple versions of exactly the same car marketed under different labels over a multi-year cycle. The trim is different, but the running gear is all exactly the same core components. The manufacturers jazz it up a bit to create that desire to get a new one.

 

[sandermarijn]

One thing I've noticed about all of Foma's films though is that they are very sensitive to over development. Go a little too far and the highlights block up something awful.

I noticed the same thing (in both 135 and 120). I now use Foma 100 at 80 EI and develop in Rodinal 1+50 for 6.5 minutes @ 20 degrees (agitation once per minute). This gives excellent shadow detail and printable highlights. Of course a lot depends on metering style and other personal habits.

 

[RobertV]

Yes, Fomapan 100 is very nice in Rodinal 1+50. Very close to the APX100 - Rodinal 1+50 combination. Overall it's their best film.

I will give it a try too in Xtol and/or Fomadon Excel W27 1+2.

Foma promised also to solve the self adhesive strip problem so I am waiting about their comments on the backing paper now.

 

[fschifano]

Robert, when you do try Foma 100 paired up with XTOL 1+2, I think you'll be surprised at how little grain there is. You'd think that at 1+2, that grain would be more apparent than it is. Obviously, the stuff is not as fine grained as TMX; but I think it's right up there in 125PX territory. Anyway, it's hard to spot the grain in an 8x enlargement through a 10x grain focuser; and I think that's pretty good. I'd like to give it a try in Rodinal myself. Are you running it per Foma's recommendation for R09 1+50 at 20 C, 8 to 9 minutes?

 

[RobertV]

Are you running it per Foma's recommendation for R09 1+50 at 20 C, 8 to 9 minutes?

Fomadon R09 has been changed from Calbe R09 to Agfa Rodinal last 1 1/2 years (after Photokina). So they are filling up from the same (CMS) plant in Vaihingen-Enz Germany.
Round corner bottles and named Fomadon R09 (new).

Rodinal is in the mean time renamed to R09 one shot. It has to do with the brand name Agfa and (maybe) Rodinal, sold to Lupus.

About the developing times:

Dead Link Removed

7,5 minutes in Rodinal 1+50 at 20 degrees C.
As already mentioned, over developing Foma films gives bad results.


Best regards,

Robert

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I have noticed the same thing. In Xtol, a 120 negative of Foma 100 can be enlarged quite a lot and still provide smooth beautiful grain and tone gradation.
I use the Xtol replenished, which gives slightly sharper negs with slightly finer grain, but is otherwise fairly equivalent to 1+2 dilution. Beautiful, easy to print negatives.

I have not tried it in Rodinal. It would be interesting to hear how you find it, Frank.

- Thomas

Robert, when you do try Foma 100 paired up with XTOL 1+2, I think you'll be surprised at how little grain there is. You'd think that at 1+2, that grain would be more apparent than it is. Obviously, the stuff is not as fine grained as TMX; but I think it's right up there in 125PX territory. Anyway, it's hard to spot the grain in an 8x enlargement through a 10x grain focuser; and I think that's pretty good.

 

[Changeling1]

The Arista films come in long bulk rolls and are loaded into the cartridges and spools by the store's employees. Some employees are probably gentler with the film than others but of course the store wants the work done as quickly as possible. Edu. means the film is for educational purposes and more or less means don't shoot anything professionally with it- that would include anything important to the photographer. You get what you pay for.

 

[RobertV]

I can show you a photo of the office C.E.O. in Hradec Kralové were all packings for the USA are made/showed (Arista brand).
In Europe only the Foma brand is available. Arista is exclusive done for the USA.
So I have no idea if there is a quality difference of Foma and Arista for the actual content.
Only I know the Foma packing for Europe is also meant for professional use.
The fact that a sometimes malfunctioning self adhesive strip is comming loose is very annoying for the particular camera user, also that in 120 roll film the combination of the softer emulsion and type backing paper can have in a tight camera system very light scratches.

The fact Foma is ISO 9001 certified means that they must be able to track down when the problem occurred. For solving the problem they will probably need some time to search for an acceptable solution.

Foma will have this year a large interruption of the production stop due to a new installment for machinery more environmental friendly.
Let's hope they can solve above problems simmultanuously.

best regards,

Robert

 

[37th Exposure]

As far as I can tell Arista Edu Ultra comes in factory loaded cartridges, not hand loaded. I develop my own so I can see the insides of the rolls, and the cartridges are of the single use type like Kodak's. Even the boxes and the date and batch stamps on the boxes are Foma style. I order both brands and see no difference but the prices but who knows? American photographers like myself could pay the extra dollar per roll and buy branded Foma but both films are stamped "Ultra" once developed. The Foma website in the Czech Republic also states that the films are stamped "Ultra" or "Fomapan" or "FPan". I have case quantities of both Arista and Foma brands and the boxes are identical down to type of box used and the printing format. The films inside are both factory plastic wrapped in bricks of 10 (new) or twenty (before).

 

[37th Exposure]

Forgot to mention, I mean 35mm and 120.

 

[jp498]

I bought a roll of 120 fomapan 400 speed. It was nice looking film with a bit of grain as you'd expect with traditional 400. It went through a 1950ish rolleiflex TLR and had scratched just like on the first page of this thread. No idea what caused it.

I also had a roll of 120 fomapan 100 speed. It made even nicer looking photos. I used it in a Yashica-C TLR and it did not have scratches.

Both were developed on plastic patterson reels in xtol.

That's my experience, though not very thorough. I hope it does get sorted out. I bought it because it was cheap film to test out two cameras with, and I liked the results of the fomapan 100. I would use it more, but I don't want to take chances with possibly bad film for everyday shooting. I'll stick with TMY2 for now and keep myself apprised of resolution of this situation, or a way to prevent the scratches.

 

[37th Exposure]

I have no idea what the yellow triangle signifies either. Maybe it's just a way to spur sales. Hey the box is different, this must be the new "improved" version. Let's try some. You know how that goes. Look at how the auto industry works. There are multiple versions of exactly the same car marketed under different labels over a multi-year cycle. The trim is different, but the running gear is all exactly the same core components. The manufacturers jazz it up a bit to create that desire to get a new one.[/QUOTE]




That's the Foma speed code. Have you ever bought branded Foma? Yellow type for the 100 speed box (where it says "100 Classic"), Orange on the 200 "200 Creative" and green on the 400 "400 Action". I guess Freestyle did that to help us out. The Arista boxes all look exactly alike. The new branded Foma also has corresponding color stripes on the boxes themselves.

 

[37th Exposure]

Ooops! Didn't come out right. The top is a quote from Fschifano. I was answering his query

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Re: Foma 400 in 35mm - new problem

So I have discovered a type of scratch that travels the length of the film when I use Foma 400 in 35mm.

I have shot the film in a Pentax KX and a Leica M4-P, and alongside the Foma 400 film I've shot Kodak TMax400 and Kodak Portra 160VC. On the Foma film, from either camera, there is a scratch that travels along the length of the film strip, and it's not there on either Kodak film. It doesn't stretch all the way from beginning to end, but shows up intermittently.

See attachment. This is not the Arista.EDU400 version, but the Foma 400 Action in 24 exposure rolls.

I think I'm done with Foma film, unfortunately, because I really love how they look. The 100 is especially nice, but the 400 is really gorgeous for portraits and 'busy' compositions also. Kodak will get my cash from this day on. I can't keep wasting time with it and wondering whether my results will be OK or not.

 

[wblynch]

I've always thought of Foma as being softer than other major maker films. I think it just needs gentler handling.

Although I'm most fond of Kodak's Plus-X, Foma is interesting to me and fun to use.

 

[Rick A]

The only scratches I've gotten with Arista/Foma 100 was yesterday when my film decided to unwind out of the reel into the tank while I was developing, and got pinched between the spiral and the wall of the SS tank, and I damaged it removing it from the tank. I gouged 3 shots, but not too terribly bad that they weren't salvageable. From now on I will always use the clip on the reel to secure the film. I've been respooling Arista/Foma 100 for my Duaflex II, its wonderful stuff, and developed in Pyrocat HD looks incredible, and the price makes it all the more attractive.

 

[Brian Legge]

I love the look of Fomapan 100 and 400 in 120 format. Unfortunately the 400 is scratching for me in multiple cameras. granted, it was purchased in one batch so perhaps I was just unlucky there but I'm going to have a hard time justifying its use it in the future.

It was developed at home, gently rolled on to SS reels. I haven't had scratches that way from any other film. I really hope someone sorts this out as I'd use the film otherwise in a heartbeat.

Edit: To be explicit, I haven't had any issues with Fomapan 100 yet and continue to use it. It is only 400 that has been a problem for me.

 

[patrickatunion]

I have always thought that the scratches that I always find with this film was due to the bulk loader scratching the emulsion as it was loading it onto Kalt cassettes. I have used this film for years in my beginning film classes and it always produces scratched prints. Interesting to find that other people have the same problem. Is it the film, or is it the loading process?

 

[Brian Legge]

I've only used the film in 120 format. I've had consistent scratches from multiple batches. No bulk loading involved for me at least.

 

[Pavel+]

Interesting thread. I've run a total of aproximately 60 Arista edu 100 and maybe about twenty of the 400 speed and have not found a single issue (yet?)
I shoot it mainly with my RZ and some were shot with a hasselblad and I hope that my good luck holds out because the 100 iso stuff is pretty much my favorite film, except for the curl and thinner base compared to Kodak films. I really like the grain, there is a look to it that I find unique and very much to my liking.

I hope they work out these issues because it must be very frustrating. So far I've been lucky and love the look of the stuff, so I hope these issues work out for others.

 

[mbsmith]

FWIW,
I have ONLY had scratching problems when using the Arista.edu ultra 400 in a Holga, and never on my SQ-A. I just chalked it up to the toy camera (despite my vigilant endeavors to inspect the inside for rough bits that might cause the scratches), but now that users are saying they only have problems in pro cams, I'm a bit baffled. :confused:

 

[Pavel+]

Hey ... in a Holga ... it is not a scratch ... it's part of the statement!

I only shoot the holga once in a while and I can't remember if I have put a roll of arista through it yet. I have been planning to put black electrical tape on the edges where the film moves past The edges seem kind of rough ... so why not, though I have not noticed any issues as of yet.

This frame was taken on Arista EDU 100 (120) It has been scanned and so much of the texture that I really like in the film is muted away here but I think it still shows a bit that the fim can be wonderful.

 

[fschifano]

I can't say that I've seen any undue defects with either Arista.EDU Ultra 100 or 400 that couldn't be traced to some sort of mishandling on my part. Most of the issues I've had with the film are the result of my ham-fisted handling of the stuff. The curl makes it sometimes difficult to get everything lined up nicely in a negative carrier, and I get clumsy or lazy. I agree that Foma or Arista.EDU Ultra 100 is a very nice film - much nicer than you'd expect given the price. The 400 stuff is OK, but not great. It's not as fast as the label says IMO, at least not without driving the contrast up to what are for me unusually high values.

Now what's this I hear about Foma 200 making a comeback? If it does, I wonder if Freestyle will carry it again as Arista.EDU Ultra 200. I've not been too happy with it in both 35mm and 120 roll film formats, but I've heard that Foma has taken care of some of this film's problems and is coming out with a revised version. I'm willing to give it a try again and would like to try it in sheet film too.