Are you relegated to the periphery of the art world

[Pieter12]

Thanks for the link. I can only take Jeff Wall talking about himself in small does, do it will take me a while to make it through the video.

Yeah. He's kind of dry. I must confess that I could only get 3/4 through the video, even taking it in parts, hoping for a deeper exploration into his process. He does give some interesting insights. Just goes to show that visual artists are not necessarily good verbal communicators and that sometimes you don't need to know all that goes into making the image.

 

[VinceInMT]

I disagree, they likely started early on and were ignored by the me. That is why Great Expectations which was written by a woman was published under a man's name as the author.

What? What woman wrote it?

As for women, being ignored, that was only a small part of it. Back in the day of painter’s guilds, women were explicitly excluded from the trade (it was a trade) unless their father was a painter. Even in the 19th-century they were barred from art school classes where figuring drawing the nude took place. This one reason that Rosa Bonheur took on horses and cattle as her subjects. Even then she ran afoul of the law when she’d show up in a horse arena in her trousers which were illegal for women to wear.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Are you talking about the Great Expectations written by Charles Dickens? Is their another Great Expectations written by a woman. Or did a woman secretly write Great Expectations and Charles Dickens just take the credit? Or maybe you are thinking about the English writer Mary Anne Evans, who wrote under the pseudonym George Eliot. She wrote some fine books like Adam Bede, The Mill on the Floss, Silas Marner, Middlemarch, and others.

My mistake. You sited the correct books, thank you.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I disagree, they likely started early on and were ignored by the me. That is why Great Expectations which was written by a woman was published under a man's name as the author.

She an exception. Most women didn't do these things years ago. They kept home and hearth and were not involved in many fields, trades, and activities. So as things changed, they became more active in society outside the home. But they got a later start. Now that they're more active, you see more of them doing these things. I'm not approving or disapproving anything. I'm just reflecting on history.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I've seen a lot of Wall's work, and I would be happy to see more.
Have you seen his wall sized transparencies in real life? They do actually benefit from the size.

My pictures look better on my 75" TV too.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Yeah. He's kind of dry. I must confess that I could only get 3/4 through the video, even taking it in parts, hoping for a deeper exploration into his process. He does give some interesting insights. Just goes to show that visual artists are not necessarily good verbal communicators and that sometimes you don't need to know all that goes into making the image.

Wouldn't it be great to hear Michaelangelo discussing his work?

 

[faberryman]

I've seen a lot of Wall's work, and I would be happy to see more.
Have you seen his wall sized transparencies in real life? They do actually benefit from the size.

Perhaps seeing The Destroyed Room in its original form as a large backlit transparency would be more impressive. It doesn't do much for me on my computer monitor. Certainly Delacroix's The Death of Sardanapalus to which The Destroyed Room is supposed to refer is more impressive in the original than as a small reproduction.

 

[Sirius Glass]

She an exception. Most women didn't do these things years ago. They kept home and hearth and were not involved in many fields, trades, and activities. So as things changed, they became more active in society outside the home. But they got a later start. Now that they're more active, you see more of them doing these things. I'm not approving or disapproving anything. I'm just reflecting on history.

And the exception proves the rule.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

And the exception proves the rule.

We're talking past one another. Sure this woman who may have been a photographer was held back because she was a woman. But that's a separate issue.

What I'm referring to is that women didn't get into photography years ago or many other areas of work, because they were busy with home and hearth. Their interests were not directed in those fields. Now they are. And these women are finally getting a chance to be recognized.

Since they were late to the game, their numbers are smaller. That's going to change in the future.

 

[Vaughn]

One of the unique aspects of the f64 group is that there were women as active members. Something not allowed in most artist groups at that time in Europe or America, unless as muses for the men. Alan, I think you are confusing a lack of interest with the lack of, and a restricting of, opportunity.

 

[Pieter12]

Women were accepted earlier in photography than in other fields, mostly because photography is such a recent development (pun possibly intended) and social acceptance of a woman as an artist was more commonplace. Julia Margaret Cameron, Margaret Bourke White, Dorothea Lange, Ruth Bernhard, Imogene Cunningham, Tina Modotti come to mind right away.

 

[Don_ih]

What I'm referring to is that women didn't get into photography years ago or many other areas of work, because they were busy with home and hearth. Their interests were not directed in those fields. Now they are. And these women are finally getting a chance to be recognized.

True or false, that is largely irrelevant. That women almost never get recognized as being truly groundbreaking, truly original, truly influential is a current phenomenon.

 

[faberryman]

Women were accepted earlier in photography than in other fields, mostly because photography is such a recent development (pun possibly intended) and social acceptance of a woman as an artist was more commonplace. Julia Margaret Cameron, Margaret Bourke White, Dorothea Lange, Ruth Bernhard, Imogene Cunningham, Tina Modotti come to mind right away.

Let’s not forget Anna Atkins, a botanist, who in 1843 published the first of three volumes of cyanotypes of different types of algae, the first photography book ever published.

 

[MattKing]

And the exception proves the rule.

Which meaning of "proves" are you thinking of here?
The current one?
Or the relatively archaic one that actually is part of the saying's meaning?
The two meanings differ substantially.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Which meaning of "proves" are you thinking of here?
The current one?
Or the relatively archaic one that actually is part of the saying's meaning?
The two meanings differ substantially.

It works in both cases. The relatively archaic that I referred to and in contemporary time such as the glass ceiling. Not just women, but races and nationalities past and present.

 

[MattKing]

My pictures look better on my 75" TV too.

But your pictures probably don't depend on the big screen for what you intend them to do.

When you stand beside this one, and the cables look like they are reaching out to grab you, and the foreground figure is approximately life size, the result is very different than when you see the image on a screen or in a book.

 

[AnselMortensen]

Periphery?
Heck, I'm around the corner and 16 blocks away.

 

[VinceInMT]

Wouldn't it be great to hear Michaelangelo discussing his work?

They didn’t have Michelangelo but they did have Leonardo da Vinci on the PBS series “Meeting of the Minds” in April 1981, Season 4, along with Nicole Paganini and William Blake.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Leonardo would do. But the real one.

 

[MattKing]

Is the periphery similar to the edge (of the water)?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...tofino-chesterman-beach-jim-denevan-1.6515609

 

[photomancottrell]

Just finished a very interesting essay by Karl Ove Knausgård that touches on this topic of photography and its relevance to art. 'Inexhaustible Precision' is the title. I read it in his book 'Land of the Cyclops' but it's also available online here: https://thepointmag.com/examined-life/inexhaustible-precision/

 

[VinceInMT]

Just finished a very interesting essay by Karl Ove Knausgård that touches on this topic of photography and its relevance to art. 'Inexhaustible Precision' is the title. I read it in his book 'Land of the Cyclops' but it's also available online here: https://thepointmag.com/examined-life/inexhaustible-precision/

Thank you for that. It was a provocative read. The discussion of quality reminded me of the exploration of that concept in Pirsig's "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance." I was also intrigued by the discussion of the role of unconsciousness in the creation of art. I've thought quite a bit about that when I dive into my own art-making and realizing that I cannot always explain where the ideas come from. A good work on that topic is Csikszentmihalyi's "Creativity." The analysis of Mann's work revealed something we users of film and vintage equipment are familiar with, the influence and impact that time has on our work.

Again, thanks for the link.

 

[faberryman]

faberry, if it's agreed upon that photography (broadly) is an art I will need to buy a beret. Otherwise...

Photography is not an art, although there is an art to photography, and you can use photography, artfully or inartfully, to create art. If you are not using photography to create art, then you do not need to wear a beret. I use photography artfully to create art, some of which is mediocre and some of which is good, but I don't wear a beret when doing so. I reserve wearing a beret to when I am listening to jazz and reading existentialist novels. I have never smoked Gauloises Bleu, so I am not authentic. That is what a photographer told me during a portfolio review. I told him he wasn't all that authentic either so we were even.

 

[Pieter12]

Photography is not an art, although there is an art to photography, and you can use photography, artfully or inartfully, to create art. If you are not using photography to create art, then you do not need to wear a beret. I use photography artfully to create art, some of which is mediocre and some of which is good, but I don't wear a beret when doing so. I reserve wearing a beret to when I am listening to jazz and reading existentialist novels. I have never smoked Gauloises Bleu, so I am not authentic. That is what a photographer told me during a portfolio review. I told him he wasn't all that authentic either so we were even.

Photography is not an art like painting, drawing, printmaking etc. are not arts unless practiced in an artistic manner. And I do miss smoking Gauloises (and Gitanes when there was more money).

What is an interesting situation is when one does not set out to intentionally create art yet the results are judged artistic. Accidental art?

 

[Don_ih]

What is an interesting situation is when one does not set out to intentionally create art yet the results are judged artistic. Accidental art?

Once something is done and set loose in the world, you no longer control what it does or what people think it is. Darn shame.