Are you relegated to the periphery of the art world

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Vaughn

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I like that, Pieter. Photography (and painting, drawing, printmaking etc) are art forms. If art is created, it is because of the artist using a form of art.

What is an interesting situation is when one does not set out to intentionally create art yet the results are judged artistic. Accidental art?

The sub-conscience can come into play, I guess. Perhaps one can create art though just being. 😎
 

snusmumriken

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Photography is not an art, although there is an art to photography, and you can use photography, artfully or inartfully, to create art. If you are not using photography to create art, then you do not need to wear a beret. I use photography artfully to create art, some of which is mediocre and some of which is good, but I don't wear a beret when doing so. I reserve wearing a beret to when I am listening to jazz and reading existentialist novels. I have never smoked Gauloises Bleu, so I am not authentic. That is what this photographer told me during a portfolio review. I told him he wasn't all that authentic either so we were even.
In my youth I smoked a lot of Gauloises Disques Bleu and crushed quite a lot more because the packet was stupidly soft. Later I switched to Gitanes, which were a better smoke. The Gitanes packet was a piece of pictorial Art, and harder to crush. I read some existentialist novels, but we never hit it off. In fact, none of that improved me in any way, so I gave it all up and bought a Nikon. I never had a beret, though. Maybe ... ?
 

Vaughn

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Gitanes? I had a Gitanes road bike back in the early 80s.
 
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VinceInMT

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The sub-conscience can come into play, I guess. Perhaps one can create art though just being. 😎

Yes, it would be classified as “Performance Art.” I figure that much of my life falls into that genre and I have certainly received my share of critical feedback.
 

Vaughn

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Yes, it would be classified as “Performance Art.” I figure that much of my life falls into that genre and I have certainly received my share of critical feedback.
Love it! Just turned 68...not that old, but no one is calling me about extending the warantee on this bod -- so with limited engine life left, might as well make it a performance!
 

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Love it! Just turned 68...not that old, but no one is calling me about extending the warantee on this bod -- so with limited engine life left, might as well make it a performance!

I am tired of the piece part replacement of body parts, I am actively looking for a complete full body replacement. That would mean only one recovery and only one rehabilitation. I will let you know when I find out how to do that.
 
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VinceInMT

VinceInMT

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Love it! Just turned 68...not that old, but no one is calling me about extending the warantee on this bod -- so with limited engine life left, might as well make it a performance!

I figure the key is to keep the engine in a highly tuned up state. I just turned 70 and although I’ve had one part removed (prostate) and a hydraulic control system installed (AMS800), I’m keeping things going pretty well. I’ve always got an 8-mile run in me (I do run about 20-25 miles/week), swim laps 3-5 times a week, been on a really healthy diet for over 40 years, and don’t partake of vices, I expect to still riding my motorcycle on cross country trips and doing my art and photography well in my 90s. At least that’s the numbers I used when planning the financial side of my retirement. The other part of the equation is keeping the mind challenged which is why I went back to school for the BFA. Now that I’ve got that, the next project is to head toward mastery of a musical instrument.
 

Sirius Glass

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Running is out since the knees cannot take the impact pounding of running from many years of skiing. I do not want to replace the knees, see post 158 for my solution.
 
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VinceInMT

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Running is out since the knees cannot take the impact pounding of running from many years of skiing. I do not want to replace the knees, see post 158 for my solution.

Good luck with that. I’ve avoided knee damaging activities so I expect to still be running when my age group gets pretty thin. IMO, the best exercise has got to be swimming. It works on every part of the body and is very low impact. I usually follow a lap session with some weights. A couple years ago I participated in the Senior Olympics at the state level swimming and running on the track. When I did the 500 freestyle in the pool, some of my competitors were in their upper 80s. That’s pretty inspiring.

Excerise is the lube like we occasionally have to use in our old cameras (Keeping this on a photographic theme.)
 

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...Excerise is the lube like we occasionally have to use in our old cameras (Keeping this on a photographic theme.)
Spent my birthday hiking out after three nights in the redwoods with the 4x5. Most of the hiking is along and in a creek, with footing being very unstable at times in the creek. One has to keep the pack centered while one's feet are going in many different directions as you make your way against, across or with the current. Ankle to 2.5 feet deep, so not bad...backpacking up there a month ago with 3x the flow was a bit more interesting (another foot deeper and a lot more force).

But that kind of walking is a full-body workout, especially with a full pack. I tried to go light, but a 4x5, pod, and 12 film holders add up. Oh, and a lg flask of Scotch and a half-pound of chocolate macaroons (about 5 pounds of food total -- so the pack did not feel that much lighter hiking out). It was my birthday, after all. I'll keep my vises. 😎 I went solo...better for photography and the brain...YMMD.

Bicycling keeps my knees lubricated and feeling good after three knee surgeries from the 30 years of full-on basketball and a decade or so of planting trees, packing mules, building trails and fighting fires. Had to give up the basketball at 43 to save my knees so that I'd still be able to backpack and carry LF cameras!

Here is a photo of the creek at a lower flow a couple years ago (5x7 negative digitally photographed and inverted). I should be good for a few more trips. A good way to keep way off the edge of the Art World....
 

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alanrockwood

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I know I'm not an artist. I barely even qualify as a photographer... more of a picture taker I would say. Sure, I am pretty conversant about technical aspects of photography, but Art? Nobody would mistake me for an artist.
 
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Spent my birthday hiking out after three nights in the redwoods with the 4x5. Most of the hiking is along and in a creek, with footing being very unstable at times in the creek. One has to keep the pack centered while one's feet are going in many different directions as you make your way against, across or with the current. Ankle to 2.5 feet deep, so not bad...backpacking up there a month ago with 3x the flow was a bit more interesting (another foot deeper and a lot more force)……

Great photo!

Yes, on the knees. I was a pretty avid racquetball player until I had a court injury with my foot. I gave it up and switched to running in my 40s. All the twisting in court and other sports just asks for injury. I‘ve run 2 marathons in my mid-50s and countless halfs, 10K, etc. since then.

I do hike but more often trail run. Lots of trails here along the Yellowstone River and I live an hour from the Beartooth mountains. Interestingly, I rarely photograph anything in nature. It’s been done and I am usually looking for other subjects. Yes, since I run with my phone I do take photos along the way, usually with my running partners in them and some kind of great scenery in the background. They get posted to social media like on our running club’s page.
 

benjiboy

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I have never been under any misapprehensions that my work is "Art", indeed I believe that photography is craft.
 

Vaughn

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I have never been under any misapprehensions that my work is "Art", indeed I believe that photography is craft.

Understandable. If one does not consider themself an artist, then one's work would not be considered art by oneself. ..makes sense.

All art is also craft...art is just not limited to craft.

YMMD, and probably should.
 
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VinceInMT

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Understandable. If one does not consider themself an artist, then one's work would not be considered art by oneself. ..makes sense.

All art is also craft...art is just not limited to craft.

YMMD, and probably should.

Producing art generally, but not always, involves the application of a craft. I draw and consider much of what I produce as “art,” yet, I worked as a mechical draftsman for lots of year before computers and practiced that “craft” producing hundreds of drawings with pencil on vellum. I wouldn’t consider any of those as “art.”
 

Vaughn

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Producing art generally, but not always, involves the application of a craft. I draw and consider much of what I produce as “art,” yet, I worked as a mechical draftsman for lots of year before computers and practiced that “craft” producing hundreds of drawings with pencil on vellum. I wouldn’t consider any of those as “art.”
Exactly. Art is craft taken further. One of many possible definitions. Those years of practicing drawing as a craft, I assume, served as a base for making art. It is all too easy to see craft as art and to see art as craft. We can draw all the dividing lines in the sand we want, then the tide comes in.
 
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VinceInMT

VinceInMT

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Exactly. Art is craft taken further. One of many possible definitions. Those years of practicing drawing as a craft, I assume, served as a base for making art. It is all too easy to see craft as art and to see art as craft. We can draw all the dividing lines in the sand we want, then the tide comes in.

Yes, all those years helped and, maybe, hindered. I was so stuck by looking at things from that mechanical point of view and drawing so rigidly, I wanted to break away from that. It's the main reason I sought out a drawing class where I could learn to "loosen up." I found that class and got so into it I kept taking more classes and graduate with a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree just this past May. While I did "loosen up," I have, in some ways, retained my past and use it as part of my style. An example would be the "Portals 03" that I just posted to the Gallery here. By combining drawing and photography I am blurring that line between art and craft.
 

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The making of art requires craft. Even when there seems to be a lack of such in the artwork. An artist can work painstakingly at mixing just the exact shade of a color to use in a work and just as hard mixing and determining adjacent hues to create the effect he or she intends. Rothko might be a good example. And even then craft can fall by the wayside by using material that might change and deteriorate over time. De Kooning labored over the composition of his paintings for weeks and months, mostly lost to the casual viewer. Great craft can be readily accessible, great art can require more effort.
 
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VinceInMT

VinceInMT

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The making of art requires craft. Even when there seems to be a lack of such in the artwork. An artist can work painstakingly at mixing just the exact shade of a color to use in a work and just as hard mixing and determining adjacent hues to create the effect he or she intends. Rothko might be a good example. And even then craft can fall by the wayside by using material that might change and deteriorate over time. De Kooning labored over the composition of his paintings for weeks and months, mostly lost to the casual viewer. Great craft can be readily accessible, great art can require more effort.

Very well-stated, especially "great art can require more effort." I think that is part of the point in my original posting and why I emphasized the issue of "accessibility" since it applies to both how the art is made and how the viewer will react to it. Another analogy might be comparing the user reaction to a Thomas Kincade versus an Anselm Kiefer, both who produce(d) work that exhibit plenty of craft but have different levels of accessibility/

I didn't fully grasp the "effort" on the viewer's side until I took classes in art history. Two of the best were "Visual Theory and Criticism" and "Contemporary Art." Prior to those I'd see something and ask that common question "Why is that art?" Now I realize that it might take some background knowledge in the art world, the various trends, and how artists use their media to express more than just a pretty picture. The effort is most always worth it.

In the photographic world, there are quite a few artists who used the craft to do something different with photography that appeal to me: Cindy Sherman, Francesca Woodman, Michael Wolf, Jo Spence, Louise Lawler and, heck, even Andy Warhol to name a few.
 

Ian Leake

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Museums have accepted, but rank and file have not! There still is an asterisk next to your name

A friend of mine who collects oil paintings once said, “I don’t collect photographs because I think that, with the right kit, I could make them myself. I know I couldn’t, but I think I could.”
 

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One of my favorite art-related sites is This Is Colossal (http://thisiscolossal.com/), a blog that features art from across a variety of mediums and artists from all over the world. I find it helpful in discovering new artists and also motivating in getting me to produce more work of my own.

A posting from June 30, “Modern Women/Modern Vision’ Celebrates the 20th Century’s Most Influential Photographers,” covers an exhibition currently up at the Denver Art Museum. In introducing the show, editor Grace Elbert says:

”One of the more accessible mediums, photography has long been an entry point for those relegated to the periphery of the art world…”

That raised an eyebrow. Really? Yes, photography has, historically, fought for acceptance in the art world but that has changed over the past 50-100 years. Or has it?

Do you feel that you are “relegated to the periphery of the art world” because you are a photographer?

And when she refers to photography and “one of the more accessible mediums,” accessible for whom? For the photographer or the viewer?

Yes photography has been fighting for acceptance and always will. And great things happen in the periphery where no one notices.
 

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By the way, I just say the show at the DAM and it’s outstanding. I would recommend it to anyone who has the chance as well as the Georgia O’Keefe photographer exhibit in the same museum.
 
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