Are you relegated to the periphery of the art world

[greg zinselmeier]

Well-stated. After going through a variety of mediums, I feel that ceramics is the one most difficult to control at the mastery level. In the ceramics classes I took, we had to mix our own clay from the raw materials like feldspar and then mix our own glazes. When rates of firing are put into it, there are a dizzying array of variables involved and a lengthy process to “do over” anything that blows up in the kiln.

Agreed, would it also be true that ceramics people are not considered fine arts/ and that they are relegated to the peripheral? Like woodworkers/ furniture makers!!!

There is Awesome stuff in both disciplines but those people do not get acknowledged by museums. Like “fine artist”

 

[Don_ih]

Most artists I speak with/ know are very critical and mock film photographers as “repeats” . You go out to take /make an image just like” harry Callahan” or whoever. Trying to recycle ideas from 50 years ago thinking no one is gonna notice. And then they laugh and snicker. Current Film photography shows tend to reinforce “the history” of the heyday of film, not commenting or making new work or ideas.

That is true of all art. Almost none of it is actually worth looking at twice. That someone uses paint to do it doesn't make it more worthwhile or original or less derivative. Or more meaningful, for that matter.

As we look at the “movements” in the art world over time, we are now in the “Contemporary” era and “meaning” rules over everything else.

As a chimera, maybe. When people are forced to nail down what the meaning is, they normally slip into a discussion of what the artist was trying to say.

Anyway, the vast majority of people don't care at all. They like what they like and don't bother to examine it more than that. It's only when you enter the realm where things need to be justified and vindicated that any concern above simply being amused needs to be addressed.

 

[Tel]

Anyway, the vast majority of people don't care at all. They like what they like and don't bother to examine it more than that. It's only when you enter the realm where things need to be justified and vindicated that any concern above simply being amused needs to be addressed.

+1. That realm is called academia: the land of interminable discussions...

 

[VinceInMT]

Agreed, would it also be true that ceramics people are not considered fine arts/ and that they are relegated to the peripheral? Like woodworkers/ furniture makers!!!

There is Awesome stuff in both disciplines but those people do not get acknowledged by museums. Like “fine artist”

True. I think that the closer that the work gets to being “functional,” the more it is looked upon as a “craft” rather than “art.”

 

[VinceInMT]

+1. That realm is called academia: the land of interminable discussions...

It would also include the function of curators Who select what work is collected or what is included in an exhibition. But I am not saying that “interminable discussions” are a bad thing. Those exist in many areas of human endeavor when one digs into the nuances.

 

[faberryman]

I am not on the periphery of the art world. I am nowhere near the art world, except to the extent I go to museums and galleries to look at art and photography. Occasionally I meet someone at a workshop who has had one or more of his photographs displayed in a gallery. Of course, the word "gallery" covers a lot of territory. A couple of years ago there was an art walk here, and one of the guys I know from taking photography classes at my local community college had several of his photographs displayed in a donut shop, He put it on his CV. I guess the question is whether a donut shop is on the periphery of the art world? I am thinking it is. I checked the menus at the cafes at the MOMA and the closest thing to a donut I found was a chocolate millefeuille for $15.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Thanks, Matt. It’s wasn’t my intention to reignite that old argument but to address a finer point.

I think there is some validity to the point that says that with photography, all one has to do is release a shutter to create an image. That virtually anyone can do that, the accessibility that quote I included spoke of, is what keeps it on the periphery for many.

I am in both camps. While I know my way around photography, I am also an artist who works in other mediums and not everyone can jump right into most them a create an image as quickly as one can with a camera. I draw, a lot, and I hear over and over from others who claim they can’t draw. I’ve never heard someone say “I can’t take pictures.” This might be at the heart of the issue.

And the better cameras today do a great job for average people. So the number of pretty good shots is in the millions maybe billions and there's no differentiation. People look for new ideas in art, especially in museums. That's harder to do with photos.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

If you want to be appreciated and loved, take nice pictures of friends and family. Then blow them up and make nice framed pictures and give to them as gifts. You'll get a lot more appreciation of your skills than from the public. "Let me introduce my photographer cousin Bill. He's a real artist." They might even invite you over for a meal or two.

 

[markjwyatt]

...I think most people see film photography as a dead breed. ...

An therein may lay the greatest opportunity. If people start taking note of images, then find out it is film photography, the dynamic changes.

 

[markjwyatt]

And the better cameras today do a great job for average people. So the number of pretty good shots is in the millions maybe billions and there's no differentiation. People look for new ideas in art, especially in museums. That's harder to do with photos.

So when some great work emerges, people will say, "he took a basic tool [e.g., paintbrush, chisel, camera, etc.] and made something great with it".

 

[Sirius Glass]

Monet and his contemporary impressionistic artists used photography on its own and to help them make their paintings. So there is no line to blur.

 

[juan]

Atget sold his photos of Paris to artists who painted from them.

 

[CMoore]

Are you guys aware of the (USA English) dictionary definition of "Art" .?
Not sure there is another word with such a broad and subjective meaning.
I believe there is less speculation in The Stock Market than with the definition of "Art"

Definition of ART

skill acquired by experience, study, or observation; a branch of learning:; one of the humanities… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[faberryman]

Are you guys aware of the (USA English) dictionary definition of "Art" .?
Not sure there is another word with such a broad and subjective meaning.
I believe there is less speculation in The Stock Market than with the definition of "Art"

Definition of ART

skill acquired by experience, study, or observation; a branch of learning:; one of the humanities… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Make way, make way. make way for the dead horse to be dragged out for another beating.

 

[Arthurwg]

Problem is that "art" requires an artist. Not everyone, and not every photographer, is an artist. But there are plenty who are.

 

[BMbikerider]

I have never counted or thought myself as part of the art world! I take pictures for my enjoyment and memories of events and places I have been and that is the end of it.

 

[Don_ih]

Well, we can think of the "Art World" as institutionalized - the world of galleries, agents, sales people, publishers, and the artists held therein. There are plenty of photographers in there. I would say they are a minority, though.

Being an artist has nothing to do with that institutionalization.

 

[Pieter12]

Most artists I speak with/ know are very critical and mock film photographers as “repeats” . You go out to take /make an image just like” harry Callahan” or whoever. Trying to recycle ideas from 50 years ago thinking no one is gonna notice.

And all the artists in other media who just go to the studio or field and make a piece just like Monet, Picasso, Pollack, etc? Almost all artists (including photographers) at some point emulate others. The better ones evolve their own style. Doing different/new just for the sake of it rarely results in satisfactory work.

 

[Sirius Glass]

 

[KerrKid]

I thought about this for awhile, but nothing was happening so I got a beer.

Now I'm on the periphery of sobriety and art. Perfect.

 

[Pieter12]

I have always been on the periphery of just about everything. Haven't fallen in yet. Oh, and that's just cruelty towards animals, Mr. Glass. But is is Art?

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have always been on the periphery of just about everything. Haven't fallen in yet. Oh, and that's just cruelty towards animals, Mr. Glass. But is is Art?

Much like this thread and similar threads it is beating a dead horse. Even the animation has died with the latest version of this website.

 

[jvo]

of course photography is on the periphery... how often can you afford to buy a favorite, interesting, fantastic photograph?

any music fan can buy any song they want without having to pay the equivalent price of a guitar. Gallery's and their pricing has made photography beyond the reach of the average Joe.

We've made archival processing more important than enjoying, understanding, appreciating the image!

how many images of your favorite photographer(s) have you bought? Do you own?

 

[Don_ih]

how many images of your favorite photographer(s) have you bought? Do you own?

Other than photo books, none. But an original print is more like a signed test pressing of a single than like a retail cd, if comparing to music. Records and cds are both cheaper to produce than photo books and have a wider audience.

Or maybe it's more like buying the original scribbled lyrics to a song?

This might be pretty expensive to buy.

 

[VinceInMT]

As I have thought about this topic quite a bit for the last half-dozen years or so, I decided to blur the distinctions by merging my photography with my drawings and see where that takes me. It’s been an interesting excursion. I tend toward the Surreal and the abstract and what I did was create cyanotypes on large sheets of drawing paper. After the coating, exposure, development/wash, and dry, I finish the image by drawing, either with graphite or pastel or a combination of them. I am quite happy with the results and will pursue this more in the future.

If you’d like to take a look at them, you can see them on my website here:

http://www.codecooker.com/projects_visual_arts/index.php?f=portals00