Are We Really Stuck With Ilford MGFB? Where Are the Magic Papers of the Past?

[MattKing]

The Spiratone ad pages were the most fascinatingly unattainable parts of the old Photo magazines of my youth.
Import something in them from New York? How could teenage me expect to do that?!!!

 

[chuckroast]

When i can get it i really like Fomabrom Variant 111.

I am down to my last 700 sheets ;P

 

[Peter Schrager]

Nowadays I use mostly Ilford MGWT. Luckily, I bought a good supply of it many years ago before the current price hikes. Regarding papers of the past, I used Dupont Varigam, Ilford Ilfomar, Ilford Ilfobrom, Oriental Seagull, and the Zone VI graded paper. All very nice papers, but I sometimes wonder if the characteristics ascribed to these papers, at least for myself, is because I printed a lot more back in those days. Perhaps I was a better darkroom worker, then?

I'm still using all of them as I strip the emulsion off and recoat with my POP emulsion
you have to realize that one of the major differences are the paper BASE. they certainly had an amazing variation of these and I believe that was partially responsible for the quality of these papers not just the emulsion itself

 

[Peter Schrager]

Slavich was a nice graded single weight paper. I believe they still make holographic plates

 

[Paul Howell]

Here to the South, Freestyle carries most of Foma's line up of papers and sells Foma under their house label, Arista.

 

[Daniel Stuefer]

Slavich was a nice graded single weight paper. I believe they still make holographic plates

Slavich papers can (seemingly) still be bought, but they only seem to have normal graded paper, and it's not exactly cheap either...
Well, I say "papers" as if there are several, but it's really only Unibrom in a few different sizes

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hey everyone,

I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately, and I’m hoping to hear other printers’ experiences.

It feels like Ilford Multigrade FB (Classic / Warmtone) has become the only serious silver-gelatin enlarging paper that anyone uses anymore. Walk into any fine-art darkroom, talk to printers I know, check galleries, or read process write-ups… it’s Ilford MGFB across the board.

I get why: consistency, availability, archival behavior, etc. But I can’t help feeling like the paper just doesn’t have that “magic” quality that older papers had. There’s nothing wrong with Ilford MGFB, but there’s also nothing that makes me stop and marvel at it either.

When I look at older prints on papers like Oriental Seagull (the real stuff), or other classic 70s–90s emulsions, the surface just had this sparkle, the kind of depth and micro-contrast that made the blacks feel like velvet and the highlights almost shimmer. The textures were gorgeous and subtle.

By comparison, Ilford’s current glossy FB surface feels… a little dead? Flat? Lacking that micro-sheen? I find myself wishing for something that actually excites me again.

So I’m wondering:

• What are people doing now that the beautiful papers of the past are gone?
Are you coating prints with lacquer or gloss sprays to bring back some of that pop?

• Is there any paper on the market that’s truly notable besides Ilford?
Foma/Fomabrom, Adox MCC, MG Art 300 — do any of these really scratch the itch, or are we all settling?

• Has anyone moved to liquid emulsions or hand-coating their own papers?
If the commercial options are so limited, is DIY the future for people who want unique surfaces again?

• And bigger picture… when are we going to see NEW silver-gelatin papers?
Are any manufacturers actually working on something new? Or are we just going to be using the same handful of emulsions indefinitely?

I’d love to hear how people are dealing with the current landscape.
Are you happy with the available papers? Have you found workarounds? Or are you feeling the same sense of loss for those older, magical surfaces?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

I don't think my photography and printing skills have yet reached the limits of what Ilford Multigrade FB can do. as soon as that happens; I'll look for other papers.

 

[Arthurwg]

I was an Agfa Classic Matte guy for years. So inexpensive, so wonderful!

 

[Brendan Quirk]

I don't think my photography and printing skills have yet reached the limits of what Ilford Multigrade FB can do. as soon as that happens; I'll look for other papers.

I concur.

 

[john_s]

Has anyone succeeded in making Ilford MG or MGWT look more like a long-remembered paper by altering the paper developer? Maybe Ansco130?

 

[Paul Howell]

I think it is more than just tones, it also the paper base, not sure if a different developer can replicate a paper base, the depth of the emulsion or the amount of sliver and other chemistry in the emulsion that might be banned.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Well, one can achieve sorta looks-like effects with MGWT by jockeying around the developers and toners, but not in my experience really replicate classic older papers.

 

[GregY]

Has anyone succeeded in making Ilford MG or MGWT look more like a long-remembered paper by altering the paper developer? Maybe Ansco130?

W Ilford, I get get best prints on Warmtone in Ansco 130 or LPD......not that Classic & Cooltone are bad, but warmtone has more depth. When i can get it I prefer Foma Variant 111.

 

[snusmumriken]

I concur.

So do I, but it’s not really the point. It was exciting - or at least fun - to try different printing papers. Their impact on the appearance of a photo was surprising. Although Ilford MG papers are incredibly flexible, they can’t cover for all those lost ‘looks’. But thank heavens that there is Ilford.

 

[Carnie Bob]

Has anyone succeeded in making Ilford MG or MGWT look more like a long-remembered paper by altering the paper developer? Maybe Ansco130?

If you print Ilford Warmtone in Lith it does look very much like a throwback paper

 

[Milpool]

This sums it up, I think. Going into stores and seeing shelves of different papers, films, developers (or seeing things in magazines) not to mention darkroom equipment and cameras was fun, trying different things/experimenting was exciting, as was using materials or chemicals the greats used. It was part of the hobby for many.

So do I, but it’s not really the point. It was exciting - or at least fun - to try different printing papers. Their impact on the appearance of a photo was surprising. Although Ilford MG papers are incredibly flexible, they can’t cover for all those lost ‘looks’. But thank heavens that there is Ilford.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Last time I walked into our local camera store, the buyer there didn't even know that fiber based paper existed. He does order a lot of RC for school darkrooms (probably never tried any kind of paper himself). Darkroom supplies were down to a tiny set of shelves. Completely different than how that business started out. They still sell a lot of film and used film cameras, however.

It would be a 2-hr round trip to where one can still find a large retail selection of darkroom paper and related supplies, so I now order online.

 

[Paul Howell]

Tempe Camera sells both ILford RC and FB multi grade, ASU stills offers a degree in Photography though the Art Department and course work analog photography is required, or was last I looked. As I use Foma and Multitone I order from Freestyle and B&H.

 

[farpointer]

There’s more paper variety than even some camera stores recognize!

When I walked into Seattle’s largest camera store the other day and asked if they could order me some Ilford Cooltone, the (otherwise welcoming and friendly) chap behind the counter sneered and said they would ask their buyer if “Ilford would consider making such a product”.

I ordered a box from Freestyle on my phone before I left the building.

 

[GregY]

There’s more paper variety than even some camera stores recognize!

When I walked into Seattle’s largest camera store the other day and asked if they could order me some Ilford Cooltone, the (otherwise welcoming and friendly) chap behind the counter sneered and said they would ask their buyer if “Ilford would consider making such a product”.

I ordered a box from Freestyle on my phone before I left the building.

Enlarging paper has become such a niche product...& camera stores in general are in business to sell cameras. Thanks to B&H & Freestyle for their continued existence....

 

[tcolgate]

As a total heathen (without running water in his darkroom), I've stuck with Kentmere vc select (mostly fine lustre), with very occasional use of MGRC (I bought a couple of small packs to try).
I don't think my photography, printing skills, or eyesight is going to go beyond it for a very long time.

 

[Richard Jepsen]

There is no such thing as the best paper. When we had more choice 20 years ago you could match a graded paper to a negative to get best results. Through the years it was disappointing to learn a paper then have it end production. Polywarmtone Plus, Elke Emaks, and Galerie were past favorites. When Ilford formulated new improved paper emulsions I standardized on Ilford papers as the firm likely to be the last manufacture standing.

MGWT is my base paper. I appreciate how I can move from RC to fiber using the same settings. You can work out the slower MGWT factors to print on Classic. If you want a different look explore toners. Standardizing on WT and deluxe/classic speeds up my printing.

Although I seldom use Foma I recently printed with 2 year old Fomatone MG Classic 131. 5x7s held in the hand look very rich and different than Ilford WT.

Thank heaven for Ilford’s quality paper and Foma. Just wish we had 2021 pricing.

 

[DREW WILEY]

2021 pricing?? How about 1980's, when one could manage to afford even a box of Brilliant Bromide graded. 16X20 MGWT has gone up from around $225 to almost $500 a box in just the last few years. I don't even bother to look up the price of 20X24 anymore. But it's a damn good paper.

 

[Melvin J Bramley]

There is no such thing as the best paper. When we had more choice 20 years ago you could match a graded paper to a negative to get best results. Through the years it was disappointing to learn a paper then have it end production. Polywarmtone Plus, Elke Emaks, and Galerie were past favorites. When Ilford formulated new improved paper emulsions I standardized on Ilford papers as the firm likely to be the last manufacture standing.

MGWT is my base paper. I appreciate how I can move from RC to fiber using the same settings. You can work out the slower MGWT factors to print on Classic. If you want a different look explore toners. Standardizing on WT and deluxe/classic speeds up my printing.

Although I seldom use Foma I recently printed with 2 year old Fomatone MG Classic 131. 5x7s held in the hand look very rich and different than Ilford WT.

Thank heaven for Ilford’s quality paper and Foma. Just wish we had 2021 pricing.

Currently printing with a pack of 25 Ilford Ilfospeed grade 2; with visually good results!
I still have Galerie and 10 year old Ilford Multigrade fiber base to play with.

 

[Lachlan Young]

2021 pricing?? How about 1980's, when one could manage to afford even a box of Brilliant Bromide graded. 16X20 MGWT has gone up from around $225 to almost $500 a box in just the last few years. I don't even bother to look up the price of 20X24 anymore. But it's a damn good paper.

Relative to average wages, 50 sheets of Zone VI Brilliant would cost nearly 700 USD today.

And compared to a pack of Kodak Ltd's Bromide from the early 1970s that still has its price sticker, Ilford Multigrade Classic FB today is still about 30% cheaper, again relative to average wages.