Are We Really Stuck With Ilford MGFB? Where Are the Magic Papers of the Past?

[miha]

My all-time favorites were Efke Emaks graded and Bergger Silver Supreme cotton. Nothing out there today really compares, but I’m still grateful to Ilford and Foma for keeping such a wide range of papers around.

 

[Milpool]

I tried and tried to like Elite, but just never cared for it. I found the base color to be too blue(ish) and the overall tonality was...meh. Toning it helped a bit, but... I was sure it was just me because this was John Sexton's favorite paper. How could I not like it? Hmm, reminds me that I, also, didn't particularly care for TMax 100, either.

Well, you're in good company when it comes to Elite. George Tice didn't like it but Kodak paid him to learn to like it for a time.

 

[DREW WILEY]

The first batch of Elite I tried was reasonably impressive. but not on the same level as other premium graded papers already on the market. The second batch I tried was disappointing. It wasn't around for very long.

John Sexton was employed at times by Kodak to promote their products.

The last of my EMaks graded paper has gone sour - pretty old by now. A good product, but certainly not the most versatile for me;
the most glossy of any FB paper I've ever tried.

 

[Don_ih]

I still have a 16x10 fibre base box of Polygrade in the freezer, and Seagull...but scared to crack them open. Probably fogged beyond usefulness.

If it's in the freezer, and has been in the freezer, it's probably not fogged at all. I have Seagull that hasn't been in a freezer and is still good. (Not any Forte paper, though - that's all fogged to some degree.)

 

[Don_ih]

Kodak Elite -- if anyone finds any of it -- might be good for making paper airplanes, now.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

If it's in the freezer, and has been in the freezer, it's probably not fogged at all. I have Seagull that hasn't been in a freezer and is still good. (Not any Forte paper, though - that's all fogged to some degree.)

Good to know! Thanks Don.

 

[Arthurwg]

I loved Agfa Classic Matte. Perfect for me.

 

[DREW WILEY]

There was original Seagull G - long gone, and then there was version 2 under different ownership, slightly anemic by comparison, and with Grade 4 a complete bellyflop. Then there were those VC versions of Seagull - reasonably well matched in color and toning effects, but even more anemic, and towards the end, of dubious quality control.

An even more dramatic change happened when the Zone VI Brilliant name transferred over to Calumet, which wasn't the same product at all - not even in the same league.

 

[AnselMortensen]

I think the word "stuck" in the thread title has too much of a negative connotation.
I'm happy with Ilford FB paper.
I'm not happy about the price, but 'It is what it is' in today's global economy.

 

[chuckroast]

Hey everyone,

I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately, and I’m hoping to hear other printers’ experiences.

It feels like Ilford Multigrade FB (Classic / Warmtone) has become the only serious silver-gelatin enlarging paper that anyone uses anymore. Walk into any fine-art darkroom, talk to printers I know, check galleries, or read process write-ups… it’s Ilford MGFB across the board.

I get why: consistency, availability, archival behavior, etc. But I can’t help feeling like the paper just doesn’t have that “magic” quality that older papers had. There’s nothing wrong with Ilford MGFB, but there’s also nothing that makes me stop and marvel at it either.

When I look at older prints on papers like Oriental Seagull (the real stuff), or other classic 70s–90s emulsions, the surface just had this sparkle, the kind of depth and micro-contrast that made the blacks feel like velvet and the highlights almost shimmer. The textures were gorgeous and subtle.

By comparison, Ilford’s current glossy FB surface feels… a little dead? Flat? Lacking that micro-sheen? I find myself wishing for something that actually excites me again.

So I’m wondering:

• What are people doing now that the beautiful papers of the past are gone?
Are you coating prints with lacquer or gloss sprays to bring back some of that pop?

• Is there any paper on the market that’s truly notable besides Ilford?
Foma/Fomabrom, Adox MCC, MG Art 300 — do any of these really scratch the itch, or are we all settling?

• Has anyone moved to liquid emulsions or hand-coating their own papers?
If the commercial options are so limited, is DIY the future for people who want unique surfaces again?

• And bigger picture… when are we going to see NEW silver-gelatin papers?
Are any manufacturers actually working on something new? Or are we just going to be using the same handful of emulsions indefinitely?

I’d love to hear how people are dealing with the current landscape.
Are you happy with the available papers? Have you found workarounds? Or are you feeling the same sense of loss for those older, magical surfaces?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

The greatest papers of the past were graded, not VC. But as much I would like Kodabromide, Velox. Ektalure, and Brilliant back, there isn't remotely enough market for them.

I have not looked Ilford in some years as I found it hard to tone. In the mean time I found Fomabrom Variant 111 VC FB to be a superb paper.

Freestyle has Kentmere (RC), Adox (contact printing) and Arista (RC) papers as well as a limited supply of Bergger available.

B&H additionally sells Multitone (RC).

In short, if you want a fiber paper, you have two choices right now: Ilford or Foma.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Kodak Elite -- if anyone finds any of it -- might be good for making paper airplanes, now.

I have a full box -3 sheets of Kodeak Elite 8X10. It sure has a heavy base and wood make one heck of a sturdy paper airplane. Mine is fogged, but not real heavy, but I don't know if I can salvage it or not. I tried a heavy dose of Benzotriazole, but no luck. I kept it thinking I might find a use for it further down the line. We'll see if I ever do or not.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

That was gorgeous paper. I went through a box of Elite when I lived in Japan. I believe they stopped making it just when I got hooked. That seemed to happen a lot. There were some Luminous papers I loved... gone.

 

[Ron789]

I too keep coming back to Ilford MGFBWT glossy - air dried. I tried many different papers over the past 10 years but for me nothing beats Ilford.
In "the old days" my favorite was Agfa Record Rapid; I still have a quite large stock but it is nowadays only useable for Lith printing, due to fogging.
Why don't we have a paper like Agfa Record Rapid anymore? Cadmium! The classic Agfa Record Rapid contained cadmium, which was no longer allowed after some moment in the past. Agfa continued a version of Record Rapid without cadmium but that could not produce the immensely deep black details of the original. A friend of mine still has many original Agfa Record Rapid prints fro0m the 80's and 90's, one of which we recently compared with a more recent print of the same negative on Ilford MGFBWT glossy..... the old Agfa print was substantially better, with deeper black and more shadow detail.
I love Fomatone for Lith printing but not for "regular" prints; the base is too creamy for me

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Well, one thing can be said about Ilford MG... it's probably not going to be gone anytime soon!

 

[gbroadbridge]

Well, one thing can be said about Ilford MG... it's probably not going to be gone anytime soon!

I think most likely to be the last man standing. Not soon, for sure. 20 years, dunno.

 

[Carnie Bob]

When Ilford Warmtone was introduced it was Beta tested by myself and many printers world wide, we were all given 5 boxes of paper with different colour labelling, about 10 sheets
of 8 x 10 in each, We were all asked to test all the boxes and tell Ilford rep which colour of box we liked best, the red box won with a majority vote and yes it is the Ilford paper we use today. I am not a big fan of the question which is the best paper question as I have bridged the graded papers of the 70's to the multigrade papers of today, I remember this question was relevant in 1976 when I saw some beautiful Cycora prints made by my first real teacher who IMO was a master printer/retoucher. Then I was hooked on Ilfomar and then I was convinced Brilliant was the best or told Oriental G3/4 , I have used most of them and in the right hands any good quality paper is the BEST. Just look to Bill Schwab's prints that are on Ilford matt paper , then sepia and selenium toned, basically some of the most beautiful prints I have ever seen. Today I am still using Ilford Warmtone in all its versions and I must say its a good paper.

 

[Milpool]

How about Spiratone, people?

 

[snusmumriken]

Just look to Bill Schwab's prints that are on Ilford matt paper , then sepia and selenium toned, basically some of the most beautiful prints I have ever seen.

Interesting that you mention Bill Schwab. Do you have any idea how he/someone would have digitised his prints on billschwab.com to capture the surface texture as well as the image itself?

 

[Don_ih]

Do you have any idea how he/someone would have digitised his prints on billschwab.com to capture the surface texture as well as the image itself?

I'm not Bob, but one look says "copy stand" with the light set to make the surface visible. Tricky to get that even.

 

[Paul Howell]

How about Spiratone, people?

I think "Spriatone was rebranded GAF, then later rebranded Kentmare. Over the past 60s I have printed with just about every paper that that was on the market, here and in Europe. I was never been a big fan of warm tone, but graded Kodak Metalist, Agfa Brovia, DuPont Variable Contrast, then Orintial were all out standing. I also liked GAF fiber based papers but the VC papers had not held up. I also liked Salvich (sp?) when I could get it, at the time graded paper, SW and DW, remined me of Brovia. Currently using Foma papers, and who knows from where house branded papers that could be Foma or from China. The rebranded papers I use for work prints then print on Foma graded. I print a bit higher with Foma that I did with older papers. Also miss Gallieria.

 

[Milpool]

If memory serves Spiratone was an American/NYC company but later on ended up also importing things.

I think "Spriatone was rebranded GAF, then later rebranded Kentmare. Over the past 60s I have printed with just about every paper that that was on the market, here and in Europe. I never been a big fan of warm tone, but graded Kodak Metalist, Agfa Brovia, DuPont Variable Contrast, then Orintial were all out standing. I also liked GAF fiber based papers but the VC papers had not held up. I also liked Salvich (sp?) when I could get it, at the time graded paper, SW and DW, remined me of Brovia. Currently using Foma papers, and who knows from where house branded papers that could be Foma or from China. The rebranded papers I use for work prints then print on Foma graded. I print a bit higher with Foma that I did with older papers. Also miss Gallieria.

 

[snusmumriken]

I'm not Bob, but one look says "copy stand" with the light set to make the surface visible. Tricky to get that even.

Ah yes, I should have thought of that, thanks. I am trying very hard not to have to buy a digital camera, but it’s looking more and more likely. I don’t even want to have to research which one to get.

 

[Don_ih]

I don’t even want to have to research which one to get.

If you want to digitize prints, you don't need to get anything new. An older Canon or Nikon DSLR with the kit lens will possibly do what you want. Light is more important.

 

[Paul Howell]

If memory serves Spiratone was an American/NYC company but later on ended up also importing things.

Yes Spriatone was NYC city based, it contracted for various products. I have a Spritone 50 to 100MM lens hood in 52mm ring size, comes in hand when shooting my 50 and 105mm Nikon MF lens. They sold rebranded paper, lens, like a 400mm pre set telephoto, same lens as sold by others. I think in the 60s and 70 their paper was rebanded GAF, GAF sold a lot rebraded paper, including for KMart, maybe Sears as well. I dont recall if they sold rebranded film.

 

[GregY]

Spiratone...the Arista of the old days....
Ilford really is the most available in N America. Especially in Canada there's very little Foma paper available.
Brilliant & Forte Polygrade were my favourites...
When i can get it i really like Fomabrom Variant 111.