Arches Platine

sanking · Jan 1, 2011

Anyone know what is going on with Arches Platine? I have a workshop in a few weeks and was planning to use Platine thinking that it would be a good paper for the student to continue with. Now I find that it is out of stock everywhere in the US and some people say it is being re-configured. I thought it wa awfully good as is so what was the problem?

So what is a very good paper for pt/pd that is available now and will likely be available going forward? I have lots of old stock of Stonhenge Rising, COT 320, and even some Platine that would work fine for the workshop, but what about the future? Is the COTE 320, which I see listed at the Bergger USA site, as good as it was 5-10 years ago?

Sandy

pschwart · Jan 1, 2011

I bought some Platine in June from Daniel Smith. Their web site shows it in stock. If you purchase 25 sheets or more, the price isn't too bad. I am still working on an old supply of COT320 so I can't say if it has changed. For my money these are the very best papers for pt/pd. Some papers can yield nice images if acid-soaked, but they are not superior to Platine or COT320 so I don't bother except for the occasional print.

sanking said:
Anyone know what is going on with Arches Platine? I have a workshop in a few weeks and was planning to use Platine thinking that it would be a good paper for the student to continue with. Now I find that it is out of stock everywhere in the US and some people say it is being re-configured. I thought it wa awfully good as is so what was the problem?

So what is a very good paper for pt/pd that is available now and will likely be available going forward? I have lots of old stock of Stonhenge Rising, COT 320, and even some Platine that would work fine for the workshop, but what about the future? Is the COTE 320, which I see listed at the Bergger USA site, as good as it was 5-10 years ago?

Sandy

CraigK · Jan 1, 2011

I've always like Platine and have used it in workshops. COT320 is also an excellent paper.

If you are looking for a good paper that students can find at just about any art supply store consider Bienfang 360. It comes in a variety of sizes and blocks is considerably less expensive and can actually produce smoother, more detailed prints. I find that in workshops, my students have had an easier time getting good coatings on it than on some of the other papers.

On the downside, it is much thinner than other cotton papers (only 50 gsm) and has poor wet strength, so it can be a bit tricky when moving from one tray to the next. It also needs to be flattened when dry. Nevertheless, I really like it and use quite a bit of it for my own work and in workshops.

jkschreiber · Jan 1, 2011

Sandy - I think there was a run on Platine when the Bergger paper was unavailable for a short while sometime last summer or fall. The COT320 seems to be readily available again, but Platine is now out-of-stock from most sources.

One possibility worth checking is Dead Link Removed, the bookbinding supply place. I was just preparing an a order and looked through their paper offerings and was surprised to see Platine there. There is no indication of stock, so it may be worth giving them a call.

Craig's suggestion of Bienfang 360 might be a good alternative, though I wonder if it's peculiar qualities may make it not the best choice for beginners.

There is always the Crane's Kid Finish writing papers. That's what Arentz used in workshops back when I assisted him. As long as you are working small it is one of the easiest papers to work with. If not for those pesky watermarks ...

~ Keith

pschwart · Jan 1, 2011

jkschreiber said:
Craig's suggestion of Bienfang 360 might be a good alternative, though I wonder if it's peculiar qualities may make it not the best choice for beginners.

I'll second that -- Biengfang has poor wet strength so one needs to float it on a backing in the tray, and it needs a mount press to flatten it after processing.
It also needs a backing when viewed else all the tones appear weak. Stonehenge will provide a much more typical experience and it's very inexpensive. I have a pad of Bienfang, but I find myself using kozo much more frequently.

sanking · Jan 1, 2011

jkschreiber said:
One possibility worth checking is Dead Link Removed, the bookbinding supply place. I was just preparing an a order and looked through their paper offerings and was surprised to see Platine there. There is no indication of stock, so it may be worth giving them a call.

~ Keith

Keith,

I have actually ordered some Platine from Talas as they did not indicate it was out of stock, but they are closed for the holidays until January 3 and I won't know until then if they actually have it.

I will also follow Phil's advice and contact Daniel Smith.

Very sorry to see that Stephen Kinsella of St. Louis is no longer in business. Over the years they always had great buys on paper.

Sandy

sanking · Jan 1, 2011

Just for the record Arches Platine is currently out of stock at Daniel Smith.

I have called about everyone else in the country who normally would stock this paper so my options are running outl.

Sandy

pschwart · Jan 1, 2011

sanking said:
Just for the record Arches Platine is currently out of stock at Daniel Smith.

I have called about everyone else in the country who normally would stock this paper so my options are running outl.

Sandy

Shame on Daniel Smith for not updating their web site. You can try New York Central Art Supply but you will have to call them as their web site and catalog are useless.

jkschreiber · Jan 1, 2011

Lenox and Strathmore 400 and 500 used to be decent inexpensive papers. Maybe Rising Drawing Bristol. I haven't used any of them in at least a decade so I don't know how they may have changed. Daniel Smith has all 4 in the catalog, though the description of the 500 is not how I remember it.

~ Keith

gmikol · Jan 1, 2011

pschwart said:
Shame on Daniel Smith for not updating their web site. You can try New York Central Art Supply but you will have to call them as their web site and catalog are useless.

FYI--

DS does not indicate stock status on the search results page (I searched for "arches platine"), but for the last couple of weeks, at least, has indicated that it was out of stock on the individual product page.

--Greg

pschwart · Jan 1, 2011

jkschreiber said:
Lenox and Strathmore 400 and 500 used to be decent inexpensive papers. Maybe Rising Drawing Bristol. I haven't used any of them in at least a decade so I don't know how they may have changed. Daniel Smith has all 4 in the catalog, though the description of the 500 is not how I remember it.

~ Keith

Last time I tried these was a couple of years ago. I'd have to check my notes, but my recollection is that they needed an acid soak so I never tried them again. There used to be a Rising single-ply Bristol (go figure). It made nice sharp prints and coated easily, but I decided the paper was too warm and surface too uninteresting. Lenox 100 from Daniel Smith also makes very smooth images and coats easily with no acid soak -- an nice inexpensive watercolor paper but it is quite warm in tone.

Davec101 · Jan 2, 2011

sanking said:
Anyone know what is going on with Arches Platine? I have a workshop in a few weeks and was planning to use Platine thinking that it would be a good paper for the student to continue with. Now I find that it is out of stock everywhere in the US and some people say it is being re-configured. I thought it wa awfully good as is so what was the problem?

So what is a very good paper for pt/pd that is available now and will likely be available going forward? I have lots of old stock of Stonhenge Rising, COT 320, and even some Platine that would work fine for the workshop, but what about the future? Is the COTE 320, which I see listed at the Bergger USA site, as good as it was 5-10 years ago?

Sandy

Hi Sandy

From my understanding Arches have had problems with the production of Platine of late and stopped making it some 6 months ago, that is why stock is so low. I bought the last 100 sheets in the U.K 3 weeks ago and all of it was useless, so i returned all of it.

Martin Axon has been working hard with Arches to create a a new version of the paper to resolve some of the production problems/quality control issues. This new batch of paper should be ready mid January, so i am told, however it could run into Febuary. If the paper is good i will be stocking up on as much as I can afford as I really like this paper when it works. I got a good deal on some Cot 320 (30x22 inches) as a replacement (150 sheets for 300/$464), although i do prefer the old Platine.

sanking · Jan 2, 2011

Lenox used to be a pretty good paper but the last batch I purchased three or four years ago was useless for pt/pt so I eventually sized it for carbon printing. Strathmore 500, 10-15 years ago, was the best paper I ever used for pt/pd, nice hard surface that gave great detail and also gave great Dmax. Unfortunately they changed the manufacture to make it more base and it is now useless unless you acid soak it.

If COT 320 is available I guess that is what I will go with. The old stock I have is a great paper for pt/pd, just hope they have not screwed it up.

Thanks to all for your comments, with special note to Dave for the comments about the reason for the reconfiguration of Platine.

Sandy

pschwart · Jan 2, 2011

Why not just use Stonehenge? It has a lot going for it: all cotton, good weight, excellent wet strength, very inexpensive, bright white, and easy to coat. I don't use it much so maybe it's changed, too, but I think it could be
fine for a workshop. COT320 is awfully expensive for a workshop paper -- except maybe at the end for a finished print to take home.

sanking said:
Lenox used to be a pretty good paper but the last batch I purchased three or four years ago was useless for pt/pt so I eventually sized it for carbon printing. Strathmore 500, 10-15 years ago, was the best paper I ever used for pt/pd, nice hard surface that gave great detail and also gave great Dmax. Unfortunately they changed the manufacture to make it more base and it is now useless unless you acid soak it.

If COT 320 is available I guess that is what I will go with. The old stock I have is a great paper for pt/pd, just hope they have not screwed it up.

Thanks to all for your comments, with special note to Dave for the comments about the reason for the reconfiguration of Platine.

Sandy

sanking · Jan 2, 2011

Phil,

I have a good supply of old stock Stonhenge Rising and it is a very good paper for pt/pt. However, I am pretty sure that this paper is very different from the current version of Stonhenge, which I have not used.

As I indicated, my goal was to use one of the better papera that the workshop student would be happy going forward with in the future. Quality is more important than price because, 1) the student is paying for cost of materials, and 2) we will concentrate on small prints in the workshop so I would anticipate only using three or four 22X30" sheets of paper during the entire workshop.

BTW, I was pretty shocked at the price of palladium II chloride. Last time I purchase it I bought 500 grams from Engelhard here in South Carolina for less than $5 a gram, and sold a bunch of it to friends. I purchased 10 grams for the workshop and the cost was over $20 a gram!! And $200 worth of palladium II does not look like much in the way of chemistry. I was rather startled when I looked at the package. I am reminded why I have always preferred platinum and palladium toned kallitypes and gold toned vandyke.

Sandy

pschwart said:
Why not just use Stonehenge? It has a lot going for it: all cotton, good weight, excellent wet strength, very inexpensive, bright white, and easy to coat. I don't use it much so maybe it's changed, too, but I think it could be
fine for a workshop. COT320 is awfully expensive for a workshop paper -- except maybe at the end for a finished print to take home.

pschwart · Jan 2, 2011

You're right -- it makes sense to let the students get to work with really good paper and you won't be using that much anyway.
Re price of palladium -- one reason why I make smaller prints But if I had to pay myself for the time spent making carbon transfers, they would be a *lot* more expensive.

sanking said:
Phil,

I have a good supply of old stock Stonhenge Rising and it is a very good paper for pt/pt. However, I am pretty sure that this paper is very different from the current version of Stonhenge, which I have not used.

As I indicated, my goal was to use one of the better papera that the workshop student would be happy going forward with in the future. Quality is more important than price because, 1) the student is paying for cost of materials, and 2) we will concentrate on small prints in the workshop so I would anticipate only using three or four 22X30" sheets of paper during the entire workshop.

BTW, I was pretty shocked at the price of palladium II chloride. Last time I purchase it I bought 500 grams from Engelhard here in South Carolina for less than $5 a gram, and sold a bunch of it to friends. I purchased 10 grams for the workshop and the cost was over $20 a gram!! And $200 worth of palladium II does not look like much in the way of chemistry. I was rather startled when I looked at the package. I am reminded why I have always preferred platinum and palladium toned kallitypes and gold toned vandyke.

Sandy

carioca · Jan 11, 2011

out of stock / reconfiguration

sanking said:
Anyone know what is going on with Arches Platine? I have a workshop in a few weeks and was planning to use Platine thinking that it would be a good paper for the student to continue with. Now I find that it is out of stock everywhere in the US and some people say it is being re-configured. I thought it wa awfully good as is so what was the problem?

So what is a very good paper for pt/pd that is available now and will likely be available going forward? I have lots of old stock of Stonhenge Rising, COT 320, and even some Platine that would work fine for the workshop, but what about the future? Is the COTE 320, which I see listed at the Bergger USA site, as good as it was 5-10 years ago?

Sandy

Hi Sandy!
I've just spoken to a sales representative in Paris and as mentioned by others, it is appearently being reconfigured, whatever this is supposed to mean, why change something that has been working well for ages?!?
I was told that Arches was handed over to a swedish group, but production will be continued in the traditional factory south east of France. Maybe all the fuss about reconfiguration is nothing but a pretext to gain time to settle the company hand-over.
I was promised to be informed when it will be available again, as well as receive samples and specs about modifications, if there should be any... ;-)

I will let you know.

Sidney
Paris, France

Davec101 · Jan 11, 2011

Sidney said:
Hi Sandy!
Maybe all the fuss about reconfiguration is nothing but a pretext to gain time to settle the company hand-over.

The paper is being reconfigured and is nothing to do with the company hand-over from my understanding. The recent paper batches have not been consistent and cannot be relied on.

Kerik · Jan 11, 2011

Sandy - Is Engelhard still selling to the general public? I tried a couple years ago and could never get a call back from my old contact Rick Clayton. To you have a contact you can share?

sanking · Jan 14, 2011

Kerik said:
Sandy - Is Engelhard still selling to the general public? I tried a couple years ago and could never get a call back from my old contact Rick Clayton. To you have a contact you can share?

Kerik,

My understanding is that Engelhard closed the office/plant (or perhaps sold it to another company), in Seneca, South Carolina where Rick Clayton was located. So he is no longer there, and I don't even know if he is still working for the company.

Sandy

kpsartless · Jan 18, 2011

I got caught out trying to finish a print job with Platine and it was very hit or miss. I bought the last 13 sheets in NYC to my knowledge back just after Christmas but it was actually worse than the batch of scraps I had lying around in a plastic sleeve since my studio move in April.
Platine is/was very moody in the cold and I was getting a ton of grain in the smooth sections like clouds and skies. From what Talas and NYCentral Art said they were told that the new Platine was coming early 2011 but the NYCentral guy said he was told in December that they haven't even begun production. Talas claims to have a paper coming from Italy that will be a good substitute for the old Platine. They expect a february date for samples. I asked to be included to get it when it arrives. Other than that I know nothing about the paper.
I've had good results w/ Stonehenge and I did try Somerset Satin with some good results as well but it to can be very moody. From my reading and research the Stonehenge was changed over the last few years to improve it for pt/pd work. I assume I rec'd newer sheets and they coated rather easily but at first glance pure palladium seemed rather pale and boring. I haven't really had a chance to do much more elaborate testing.
Please post any updates regarding the new Platine. Thanks.

Keith Snyder
Brooklyn

PVia · Jan 18, 2011

Keith, did you have to acidify the Stonehenge?

Davec101 · Jan 18, 2011

keith snyder said:
I got caught out trying to finish a print job with Platine and it was very hit or miss. I bought the last 13 sheets in NYC to my knowledge back just after Christmas but it was actually worse than the batch of scraps I had lying around in a plastic sleeve since my studio move in April.
Platine is/was very moody in the cold and I was getting a ton of grain in the smooth sections like clouds and skies. From what Talas and NYCentral Art said they were told that the new Platine was coming early 2011 but the NYCentral guy said he was told in December that they haven't even begun production. Talas claims to have a paper coming from Italy that will be a good substitute for the old Platine. They expect a february date for samples. I asked to be included to get it when it arrives. Other than that I know nothing about the paper.
I've had good results w/ Stonehenge and I did try Somerset Satin with some good results as well but it to can be very moody. From my reading and research the Stonehenge was changed over the last few years to improve it for pt/pd work. I assume I rec'd newer sheets and they coated rather easily but at first glance pure palladium seemed rather pale and boring. I haven't really had a chance to do much more elaborate testing.
Please post any updates regarding the new Platine. Thanks.

Keith Snyder
Brooklyn

Bergger's Cot 320 is quite close to Arches Platine, slightly more off white. Exposures are about 1/3 longer than Platine. I have not bought this paper from B&S before but they do supply it. You are limited to 30x22 inch paper with Cot 320 which is one of the reason why I prefer Platine when it works right as you can get it in larger sizes.

kpsartless · Jan 20, 2011

Platine

PVia said:
Keith, did you have to acidify the Stonehenge?

I chose to not acidify and have not tried that yet. I did however pre-coat the paper with distilled water using a rod then a Princeton Gesso Brush just before coating with pt/pd solution using brush only. This was on advice from B&S to combat my cold environment and smooth out the continuous value soft areas of the prints (skies typically) that were getting grainy and not absorbing the solution well enough.
I tried the same method with the Somerset but the paper surface began to shred. Platine did well with the water pre-coat what little I had left.
I will not be printing until March (away from the studio) but when I return to NYC I plan on doing a more precise evaluation with Stonehenge and I will try the acidification. I did try it in the past with Fabriano Artistico and frankly it sucked. I don't discount that I may have done the process improperly as it was my first time.
If anyone has a specific acidification process that works well please send it along. I tried oaxalic acid bath but I'd have to look up the notes to give specifics.

Keith

carioca · Jan 21, 2011

A sales rep called me today and I was told that Arches Platine will be supplied again end of February, at least here in France.

S.

Arches Platine

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