Anyone Still Using Bronica?

[RedSun]

Likely it's because the Mamiya RB67 is superior in that format.

I'm not sure this is the main reason. It is just the market positioning.

ETR, ETR-C and ETR-S were introduced in 1976 to 1978. The SQ was introduced in 1980 and SQ-A in 1982. The GS-1 was introduced in 1983 and it has only one model. The GS-1 is a portable 6x7 and most people use it in studio due to its large size and weight. But in studio, there are larger 6x7 bodies that offer more features. So GS-1 did not gain much market share. The demand for portable 6x7 was not high enough. It is not that RB67 was superior....

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I'm not sure this is the main reason. It is just the market positioning.

ETR, ETR-C and ETR-S were introduced in 1976 to 1978. The SQ was introduced in 1980 and SQ-A in 1982. The GS-1 was introduced in 1983 and it has only one model. The GS-1 is a portable 6x7 and most people use it in studio due to its large size and weight. But in studio, there are larger 6x7 bodies that offer more features. So GS-1 did not gain much market share. The demand for portable 6x7 was not high enough. It is not that RB67 was superior....

Feature and capability wise there is no comparison between RB and GS, format aside.

But I must add, neither will have negative impact on images one makes.

 

[RedSun]

Feature and capability wise there is no comparison between RB and GS, format aside.

But I must add, neither will have negative impact on images one makes.

Maybe to some people. But some people do not choose different brand. Not sure a lot folks choose Bronica 6x45, Hasselblad 6x6 and Mamiya RB67. Maybe some do...

It is just very subjective to say what is the "best"...

 

[abruzzi]

I don't how more straightforward a camera needs to be. While GS is somewhat smaller than RB, it is still a big camera and RB is superior in every other way. Rotating back alone is killing any comparison argument, IMHO of course. Add bellows extension built in and there is no going back, especially if one wants to play around with closer focusing and/or pinhole photography.

The RB Pro SD is the one to get BTW and SD film backs.

I don’t own an RB and have never used them, but when I was looking at them, procedure for shooting them seemed more complex then I wanted to deal with. Also there seemed to be all these caveats that certain lenses didn’t work with certain cameras, or other needed an adapter. I couldn’t keep track of it all. For other people and other purposes, I’m sure it is a great camera, but not for me. It pretty much wrote off the camera for my use. I ended up with a Pentax 67, which is very nice, but I’m thinking of replacing it with a GS-1.

 

[MattKing]

Also there seemed to be all these caveats that certain lenses didn’t work with certain cameras, or other needed an adapter.

Essentially, all the lenses work with all the bodies, save and except two highly specialized newer lenses (the 75mm shift lens being the most common).
The older lenses work fine with the newest SD body with or without the accessory "collar". The collar increases the stability of the mount when the older, smaller throat lenses are fitted to the newest, large throat SD body, so there is less likelihood of damage if the camera is used in extreme circumstances.
With the exception of the two special purpose newer lenses, all the new lenses work fine with the old bodies - you just take the collar off them - it came with the lens.

 

[abruzzi]

Essentially, all the lenses work with all the bodies, save and except two highly specialized newer lenses (the 75mm shift lens being the most common).

Correct me if I’m wrong, but RZ lenses don’t work with an RB, right? Do all RB lenses work with an RZ?

EDIT: while I’m sure you’re right, from the standpoint of someone like me that knew little about the system, this page:

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Mamiya_RB67

seems to say that depending on body there are a bunch of compatibility issues, which makes a beginner like me decide to look elsewhere.

 

[MattKing]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but RZ lenses don’t work with an RB, right? Do all RB lenses work with an RZ?

Yes, and mostly - I refer you to the Reznitsky Compatibility chart: http://www.reznitsky.info/Mamiya/Comchart.htm

 

[RedSun]

When I chose MF format, I looked at Mamiya and Pentax. The Mamiya was huge, I believe that was the studio 6x7. Pentax had limited selections. So I chose Bronica ETR. The rest is easy decision to get the SQ and GS. Never look back and compare. No need. I can do any of the 3 MF formats, even the 135 W format. The black ETR-Si and GS-1 look just like the Nikon F3 F4 and F100. No interest in the chrome looks. Just me....

 

[skahde]

Reviving this old matter as I stepped into Bronica last year and would like to share my experience as a former hasselblad-owner. I cannot help to compare but as things even out somehow between the systems I think that's ok.
I bought a used GS-1 as the square never felt right to me and ai always ended up framing and printing square to. Cropping on the other hand always brought me to what I felt were the limits of the resolution I needed.

In the hand the GS-1 handles like a wider Hassi and feels less refined but that's a small price you pay for the larger format. The finder of the GS is not as bright as a Hassi with Accute-matte screen but beats the Hassi with standard screen. The GS-interlocks are perfect and prevent you from doing wrong anything. In the hand the GS feels less refined and a bit more rattly and plasticy but still pretty robust and utilitarian. Magazines are not as smooth to operate but lack any felt/foam-seals which will deteriorate over time like on a Hassi.

Lens-quality is flawless with the PG-series. I now own five lenses and have only good words to say about them. I owned 50 CT (great center, stop down to at least 11 for sharp corners), 80 F (great), 150 CT (great), 250 CT (good), for the Hasselblad and they were a mixed bag in comparison, ranging from good to really excellent. The Bronica PG-line seems more evened out to me, missing part of the wow-factor as well as the limitations of some of the older Zeiss-designs I had used back then. I could never afford the newer Zeiss-designs from the F-line (used to have a 2000fcw) let alone the highpoints in wideangles with floating elements or the 100, 180 and 250 SA and sure don't want today, after the market went crazy.

Shopping for GS-bodies and lenses in Germany was astonishingly easy. The 50 mm was the only lens I had to buy from abroad and cost more than 250 € and turned out worth it. The others kept popping up around me and I will be picking up the 200 mm as No. 6 in the lineup to complete my system this week. Sourcing small bits can be more difficult. I had a correction-lens for the AE-finder custom made as the market for the right dioptrien for aging eyes has dried out.
Looking into current Hasselblad-offerings there is hardly any of the desirable bodies with GLS-mirror and user-interchangeable screens avaible and they are about five times the price.

With respect to reliability everyone will tell you a Hasselblad will last a lifetime. Well, that's a lie if there is any. It will bei repairable but will fail and with lenses and magazines I can assure you that they will need "maintainance" on a regular basis while a Nikon F2 would keep klicking away happily. Ok, so it will be repairable. Good luck with that. If you find a dependable repairer stick to him. I had been burned more than once with a crater carved into in an inner element of my 5.6/250 mm after a shutter-overhaul being the worst experience and a set of two A12s still not stopping at frame 1 when coming from the shop being the nail in the coffin of my love for the system.
Every part of the Bronica-system has worked without much trouble so far. Contacts needed cleaning for the AE-prism, that's it. But if it fails, that will be the end if parts are needed and I haven't heard of anyone around working on them anyway. I will solve this problem should it occur.

So this is my take on the story: The Hasselblad is the better camera, if the format is right for you, you hunt down one of the more recent bodies (501cm, 503cw, 200(0) in good shape) that will not block part of the finder with long lenses, flip in a brighter accute-matte screen, combine it with their best lenses and be willing to find a good shop to keep it in shape. I could see myself doing this, I loved my 2000 fcw, pictures from it are hanging around me, but adding price to the equation I just take a look at the GS sitting in my bag and put a wide smile on my face and feel the love for Hasselblad fading into the past.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Reviving this old matter as I stepped into Bronica last year and would like to share my experience as a former hasselblad-owner. I cannot help to compare but as things even out somehow between the systems I think that's ok.
I bought a used GS-1 as the square never felt right to me and ai always ended up framing and printing square to. Cropping on the other hand always brought me to what I felt were the limits of the resolution I needed.

In the hand the GS-1 handles like a wider Hassi and feels less refined but that's a small price you pay for the larger format. The finder of the GS is not as bright as a Hassi with Accute-matte screen but beats the Hassi with standard screen. The GS-interlocks are perfect and prevent you from doing wrong anything. In the hand the GS feels less refined and a bit more rattly and plasticy but still pretty robust and utilitarian. Magazines are not as smooth to operate but lack any felt/foam-seals which will deteriorate over time like on a Hassi.

Lens-quality is flawless with the PG-series. I now own five lenses and have only good words to say about them. I owned 50 CT (great center, stop down to at least 11 for sharp corners), 80 F (great), 150 CT (great), 250 CT (good), for the Hasselblad and they were a mixed bag in comparison, ranging from good to really excellent. The Bronica PG-line seems more evened out to me, missing part of the wow-factor as well as the limitations of some of the older Zeiss-designs I had used back then. I could never afford the newer Zeiss-designs from the F-line (used to have a 2000fcw) let alone the highpoints in wideangles with floating elements or the 100, 180 and 250 SA and sure don't want today, after the market went crazy.

Shopping for GS-bodies and lenses in Germany was astonishingly easy. The 50 mm was the only lens I had to buy from abroad and cost more than 250 € and turned out worth it. The others kept popping up around me and I will be picking up the 200 mm as No. 6 in the lineup to complete my system this week. Sourcing small bits can be more difficult. I had a correction-lens for the AE-finder custom made as the market for the right dioptrien for aging eyes has dried out.
Looking into current Hasselblad-offerings there is hardly any of the desirable bodies with GLS-mirror and user-interchangeable screens avaible and they are about five times the price.

With respect to reliability everyone will tell you a Hasselblad will last a lifetime. Well, that's a lie if there is any. It will bei repairable but will fail and with lenses and magazines I can assure you that they will need "maintainance" on a regular basis while a Nikon F2 would keep klicking away happily. Ok, so it will be repairable. Good luck with that. If you find a dependable repairer stick to him. I had been burned more than once with a crater carved into in an inner element of my 5.6/250 mm after a shutter-overhaul being the worst experience and a set of two A12s still not stopping at frame 1 when coming from the shop being the nail in the coffin of my love for the system.
Every part of the Bronica-system has worked without much trouble so far. Contacts needed cleaning for the AE-prism, that's it. But if it fails, that will be the end if parts are needed and I haven't heard of anyone around working on them anyway. I will solve this problem should it occur.

So this is my take on the story: The Hasselblad is the better camera, if the format is right for you, you hunt down one of the more recent bodies (501cm, 503cw, 200(0) in good shape) that will not block part of the finder with long lenses, flip in a brighter accute-matte screen, combine it with their best lenses and be willing to find a good shop to keep it in shape. I could see myself doing this, I loved my 2000 fcw, pictures from it are hanging around me, but adding price to the equation I just take a look at the GS sitting in my bag and put a wide smile on my face and feel the love for Hasselblad fading into the past.

his is my take on the story: The Hasselblad is the better camera, if the format is right for you, you hunt down one of the more recent bodies (501cm, 503cw, 200(0) in good shape) I recommend the 503 CX which is a CW without the power winder optionm [not a great loss]. I avoid the 200 series and 2000 series for lack of available shutter parts and lack of repair service.

 

[flavio81]

his is my take on the story: The Hasselblad is the better camera,

Sirius Glass, advocating for Hassy...

So nice to see the tradition never changes in this group.

Cheers from the Bronica war trench...

And, to the question: "Anyone Still Using Bronica?". Yes, i just bought another body one week ago, a ETRS. To add to my collection of accesories and MC/E/PE lenses.

 

[pbromaghin]

Last weekend I was fortunate enough to have a conversation with a film photographer at the Denver Cherry Creek Arts Festival, one of the very tops in the US. She uses a Bronica and had some very nice Velvia 50 16x20 and 20x30 prints for sale.

 

[Tony-S]

Sirius Glass, advocating for Hassy...

So nice to see the tradition never changes in this group.

What’s surprising is it took him so long to reply!

 

[Tony-S]

Last weekend I was fortunate enough to have a conversation with a film photographer at the Denver Cherry Creek Arts Festival, one of the very tops in the US. She uses a Bronica and had some very nice Velvia 50 16x20 and 20x30 prints for sale.

I need to get down there one of these days. How often is the festival? Do you recall which Bronica she uses?

 

[John Wiegerink]

My first Bronica back in the early 70's was for wedding shooting. I shot my first two weddings in 35mm and when I knew I could do it I decided I had to move up to a medium format camera. I bought a used Bronica S2A from a local wedding photographer and used it for a little more than two years until I had enough money to buy a Hasselblad. Nothing wrong with the output of the Bronica and I got just as good a picture quality as I did with the 'blad. I changed for two main reasons. One was flash sync, the other a real big one, was NOISE of the shutter. If I could have bought or had access to a Bronica SQ series camera I'm sure I would have gotten by just fine with that also, but I plugged away with the Hasselblad instead. Between late 1970 until just a few months back there were no Bronica cameras in my collection. Now there is a GS-1 with 50mm, 110mm, 150mm and 250mm. I still have Hasselblad equipment, but I like 6X7 format just a little better. I think it's just "different strokes for different folks"!

 

[brian steinberger]

I’m still using two Bronica RF645s. One has been used much more than the other. I’ve had them almost 20 years now. I know people are generally scared of them now but I got them when they were much cheaper.

Also wanted mention I used to have the SQ-A and it too was a great camera. Nice to shoot handheld with the grip. Much easier to shoot handheld than Hassy.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I’m still using two Bronica RF645s. One has been used much more than the other. I’ve had them almost 20 years now. I know people are generally scared of them now but I got them when they were much cheaper.

Also wanted mention I used to have the SQ-A and it too was a great camera. Nice to shoot handheld with the grip. Much easier to shoot handheld than Hassy.

Don't let Sirius hear you say, "much easier than a Hassy" or he'll come unglued. The only reason I recently bought the GS-1 was because I am a bigger fan of 6X7 than 6X6 and I wanted interchangeable backs. I already have a Pentax 6X7 outfit with many lenses, but wanted to give the GS-1 a try. Plus, it was about the cheapest 6X7 setup I have bought. Yes, the GS-1 with the speed grip and prism is a joy for me to shoot.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Sirius Glass, advocating for Hassy...

So nice to see the tradition never changes in this group.

Cheers from the Bronica war trench...

And, to the question: "Anyone Still Using Bronica?". Yes, i just bought another body one week ago, a ETRS. To add to my collection of accesories and MC/E/PE lenses.

And in my spare time, I split infinitives.

 

[Cholentpot]

Took out my S2 for a few rolls the past few days, aside from the shutter capping at full speed and the viewfinder popping off if I'm not careful the thing works like a charm.

 

[Hassasin]

Bronica GS-1 is sad engineering failure in longevity, the only reason I regretted buying as it is otherwise a great design, in line with ETRS and SQA, with very well thought out features, interlocks, and handling. For most purposes it takes the cake over RB67, but not if reliable is paramount (and when isn't it ?).

Calling it less refined than Hasselblad is a stretch too. There is absolutely nothing refined about Hasselblad, SWC aside, certainly not in engineering sense. But that's been covered before and I know it rubs some people the wrong way.

The sad issue with GS-1 is how they opted to trigger shutter with in-body electromagnet and that is a huge weak point of its design. You see them cheap because they fail. If they have not yet, they will, and there is zero hope you can get it fixed, unless someone in China figures there is a market for making a production run of spares. If you want to buy one, buy the absolute latest production dates, which firstly means all buttons are black, not chrome. When service was still available, replacing that in-body shutter electromagnet was a common service job.

I bought into it with significant expectations, and they all turned out great, with the this one critical exception. So I have it, two bodies in fact (one still triggers shutter) but do not shoot with it away from home. It's not a field camera, especially if taken out as only one with no back up of another type. I take RB67 any day because of this.

Lens line up was also never taken too far due its short production life, and that has been part of its relative cheapness.

 

[Hassasin]

The one Bronica I always thought was a mistake not to continue development was EC. It's a pure joy to see it work and for me far ahead of Hasselblad, in just about every way.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Just watched protests in Chicago, people marched right past Central Camera

Sirius Glass, advocating for Hassy...

So nice to see the tradition never changes in this group.

Cheers from the Bronica war trench...

And, to the question: "Anyone Still Using Bronica?". Yes, i just bought another body one week ago, a ETRS. To add to my collection of accesories and MC/E/PE lenses.

What’s surprising is it took him so long to reply!

Actually when I was a teenager I wanted the Bronica S is the worst way, but no matter how much I saved, I could not afford it. So later in life I settled for Hasselblad, but the root of the love for Hasselblad is based in the Bronica s.

 

[OAPOli]

I use a Bronica S from time to time and it's a lovely camera. There is some irony in that the original Bronica was made to dethrone the 1600F. But by the time the Bronica came out, the original Hasselblad was already obsolete. And little by little, many of the more fanciful features of the Bronicas were abandoned.

The later Zenzanon lenses (focal plane) are really good. The 40mm f/4 weights 330g!

 

[mshchem]

I use a Bronica S from time to time and it's a lovely camera. There is some irony in that the original Bronica was made to dethrone the 1600F. But by the time the Bronica came out, the original Hasselblad was already obsolete. And little by little, many of the more fanciful features of the Bronicas were abandoned.

The later Zenzanon lenses (focal plane) are really good. The 40mm f/4 weights 330g!

I had a late version 40mm for Hasselblad, absolutely beautiful lens, takes 95mm filters, so heavy I sold it. I have had quite a few Bronica cameras over the years, never had any problems.

 

[flavio81]

Bronica GS-1 is sad engineering failure in longevity, the only reason I regretted buying as it is otherwise a great design, in line with ETRS and SQA, with very well thought out features, interlocks, and handling. For most purposes it takes the cake over RB67, but not if reliable is paramount (and when isn't it ?).
(...)

The sad issue with GS-1 is how they opted to trigger shutter with in-body electromagnet and that is a huge weak point of its design. You see them cheap because they fail. If they have not yet, they will, and there is zero hope you can get it fixed

Camera technician here...

1. Was the camera serviced periodically?

2. Did you attempt to bring it to an actually GOOD camera technician like Frank Marshman?

I understand your concern, however the GS-1 was the third electronic system they designed, after the ETR and SQ. I have enough experience with the ETRS and Si and I must say the electronics are reliable, but the mechanicals need periodic service. Still, the Pentax 6x7 line -which I also own and service- requires even more frequent service (i'd say once every year or two years), so the ETRS/Si models thus fare better than the 6x7, a camera ofthen thought as "reliable".

Of course with an electromechanical shutter you will need to have the system well cleaned and lubricated so it fires.

Funny enough the Bronica Motor Drive E (for the ETR) also brings you electromechanical shutter release to the ETR series and... guess what... if the mechanism' lubricants dry up, it stops working, and it will not fire (using the motor drive shutter release button).