Anyone know what film stock Akira Kurosawa was using? (and discussing Fujifilm history)

[loccdor]

I'm a big fan of Japanese director Akira Kurosawa and wondered if anyone had information, even educated guesses, on the film stock he would have used. Mainly on his black and white films from the 50s like Seven Samurai, but if you know about his color works that would also be interesting.

I might guess that it was Fujifilm, but I'm not sure how to get information on their very old black and white emulsions. The information that exists could be in Japanese which I don't understand. The oldest B&W Fuji film I know about is Neopan SS, and I don't think that's very old.

 

[Kino]

I would guess Kodak Double-X 5222, but that's purely a guess.

The few post-WWII Japanese archival elements I handled always had Kodak edge numbers printed through. That's not to say there wasn't Japanese Filmmakers using Fuji stock, I just never saw it in my limited exposure to the few elements I handled...

 

[loccdor]

Thank you, it could be that in the 50's he was using Kodak.

I know he made a few films during wartime, and I'm unsure if they would have access to that during that period. But maybe there would be enough stored up.

Now the oldest Fujifilm I've been able to locate is a roll Fuji Neopan SSS, 200 ASA, expiring in 1974. Marketed as a Panchromatic Ultra High Speed Safety Film.

 

[loccdor]

Now I've learned there was Fuji Neopan S, SS, and SSS, analogous to Kodak Plus-X, Double-X, and Tri-X. I checked out the spectral similarity between SS and Plus-X and they look very familiar to each other. Perhaps Kodak and Fuji during this time of classic-grain film really didn't have a huge difference. Maybe an old Kodak and an old Fuji film are pretty much interchangeable, though one is still being made and the other is not.

Fuji Neopan SS 100

Kodak Plus-X 125

 

[loccdor]

Ah, I finally found a Japanese page I could put through a translator with the history of Fuji films. This is very interesting.

富士フイルムのあゆみ　“ネオパンSS”の誕生とアマチュア写真需要の拡大

富士フイルム創立以前から近年までの情報を、年表・ヒストリーでご覧いただけます。

www-fujifilm-co-jp.translate.goog

Below is a translated excerpt:




In April 1952, when the demand for amateur photography was increasing, our company launched a new product, ``Neopan SS,'' in its main product, roll film.


"Neopan SS” is an orthopanchromatic film with a sensitivity of ASA100 (ASA is the photographic sensitivity display standard set by the American National Standards Association), 2.5 times the sensitivity of the conventional “Neopan”, and is close to the color sensitivity of the naked eye. It had a wide range of latitude (exposure latitude), rich gradation, and excellent fine grain characteristics. In particular, the significantly increased sensitivity compared to conventional film made it useful for artificial shooting in the early morning, at dusk, indoors, and in studios. It was also suitable for night photography, and was used not only by amateur photographers, but also by professional users who took photographs of news reports, portraits, and documentary photographs.


The following year, in March 1953, the company improved the conventional "SP" and commercialized "Neopan SS" for 35mm film.

Neopan S, SS, SSS, F (roll film)

Neopan S, SS, SSS, F (35mm size)

Since then, "Neopan SS" has been improved to a higher quality film, and continues to be a long-selling product to this day as Japan's representative black and white film.


Following the commercialization of "Neopan SS," our company began creating a series of roll films to meet the diverse needs of users. These include "Neopan S" (sensitivity ASA 50) with excellent graininess, the high-sensitivity film "Neopan SSS" (sensitivity ASA 200), and the ultra-fine grain film "Neopan F" (sensitivity ASA 32). It was released one after another from 1958 (Showa 29) to 1958 (Showa 33).


Regarding 35mm film, various types were developed from 1953 to 1958: "S", "SS", "SSS", and "F".


Each series of ``Neopan'' was well received in various quarters, and ``S'', ``SS'', and ``SSS'' came to be used as symbols to represent the sensitivity of the film.

 

[foc]

I found this in a Google search regarding Fujicolor. Hope it is of some help.

https://filmcolors.org/timeline-entry/1367/

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Try this https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63979548

There's a book referenced in there as well as some info.

 

[loccdor]

Thank you all. I'm already adding some information to the Wikipedia page on Neopan which was very incomplete.

I've discovered that Fuji had a 10 ASA color film, just called Fujicolor, in the 50s. A 100 speed color negative film called Fuji N100, and color reversal R100 in the 70s. They also used their black and white "S" films for reversal.

For the Kurosawa question, it is looking like most of his best films were on Kodak, but now I'm fascinated by the Fuji history.

 

[MattKing]

Japan was a very profitable market for Kodak for many, many years!

 

[Richard Man]

The existence of still-camera film does not necessarily say that the equivalent movie film exists though.

 

[Kino]

The "camera boom" of Japan doesn't seem to really have occurred until Post WWII, so I would think any earlier films could have been shot on Kodak, Agfa, Gevert or even Pathe film stocks in addition to Fuji. Post WWII, with US Occupation, would seem to naturally point to Kodak film dominating for a brief period until native manufacturers could reestablish and offer reasonable alternatives.

All pure speculation on my part. It would be interesting to hear some solid evidence of what was the predominant film stock used throughout the first half of the 20th Century in Japan.

 

[MarkS]

And let's not forget that the Director of Photography has a great deal to do with the 'look' of a film- that's their job. Theatrical movies have almost always been very carefully lit, with lots of gear, technicians and budgets. The choice of film stock would be only a part of the DP's and director's practice.

 

[MattKing]

Even within the same stock, there are preferences and differences.
My father was mostly responsible for the Customer Service Manager responsibilities at the Kodak Canada Kodachrome/Ektachrome processing lab he worked at for much of his working life, but he also served as the contact person for shipments of motion picture film shipped out to the Vancouver, BC area for pick-up by the film crews who were shooting in our area. One of the productions he had dealings with were shooting scenes to complete a partially shot film that was not originally completed by the original production team before that production ran into money problems.
The new production team had a half finished film on film stock that had been manufactured by Kodak Pathe in France. Eastman Kodak was asked if they could produce enough camera film to complete the original production, on film stock designed to be at least similar to the Kodak Pathe stock - which was distinctly different than the Rochester produced film stock. Eastman Kodak was able to do so, and the motion picture was completed.
I always wondered what ended up on the screens - my Dad only knew who the production team contacts were, not the name of the film itself.

 

[Romanko]

The "camera boom" of Japan doesn't seem to really have occurred until Post WWII

Prior to that Japan camera industry had very strong ties with Germany.

 

[guangong]

The simplest way to discover which film was used on any of his films would be to read a film’s credits listed at beginning of movie. Japanese movies usually include film type, processor, sound and sound processor, etc. Haven’t double checked, but I believe that Ozu used Agfa for his color film.

 

[snusmumriken]

I would guess Kodak Double-X 5222, but that's purely a guess.

The few post-WWII Japanese archival elements I handled always had Kodak edge numbers printed through. That's not to say there wasn't Japanese Filmmakers using Fuji stock, I just never saw it in my limited exposure to the few elements I handled...

Actually, Double-X doesn’t have frame numbers, at least nowadays. As a cine film, I don’t imagine it ever did.

 

[Kino]

I misspoke about edge numbers; what I mean was edge codes. Some people use the terms inerchangeably, but it's not precise to mix them up.

https://filmcolors.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Brown_Kodak_1990-10.jpg