Any tips on developing 4x5 E6?
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Temperature control required is about the same as for C-41 -- 100F/38C plus or minus a tiny margin is canonical, though some kits may specify a slightly higher starting temp to allow for "drift-through" as the tank cools after filling. I haven't processed color slides since the mid-1970s, however, when E-4 was current, so can't recommend a kit, other than to note that Cinestill offers three different first developers to allow some manipulation of the final result -- standard, tone compensating (compensates for daylight film under tungsten light, IIRC), and wide dynamic range (= low contrast).
Two-bath? For E-6? First Dev, fogging color dev, blix, seems like a minimum of 3 baths...
Send it to a lab…
For some of us, that's effectively the same as saying "don't shoot E-6 in 4x5." The cost of the film itself is bad enough (what is it now, around $10/sheet?), but a lab will charge that much again, if not double that. These days, you still have to worry whether they'll do the work right.
Yes, shooting 4x5 transparency is really expensive. So is flubbing home processing.
Outside processing of almost any film matches or exceeds the cost of the film. I don't think that's anything new.
Finding a lab that will process 4x5 E6 might be a different story... I just checked two near me and they no longer offer that service.
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I am using Tetenal E-6 2,5l 3-bath chemistry with an Jobo 2520 Tank, Jobo 2509N sheet film spiral and a modified Jobo CPE-2 processor. The stock thermostat was not precise enough for me, so i mounted an sous vide stick (Cinestill) in the trough which gives me
extremely uniform temperature distribution (within 0.1°C) by its circulating pump. A little experimentation has to be done to find the right thermostat setpoint. The temperature usually has to be some tenths of a centigrade higher to get the correct 38.0 +/- 0.3°C in the tank.
This setup is also used for 120 film. The modification of the Jobo was done more because of my obsession with precision than out of necessity.
The chemistry is decanted in 10 bottles of 50ml for each concentrate immediately after i open the bottles the first time and this works perfectly. So i mix up only 250ml at a time which is enough for the tank.
The most critical concentrate is the first developer. The others are not that fincky in my experience. Inert gas in the concentrate bottles is a must.
Before i had the Jobo, i used the sous vide in a basin of water and agitated by hand (but only 120 at that time). Worked fine too, but is tedious as one has to splash around in the water all the time^^ But if you submerge the tank completely, there is no part of it exposed
to the air and so it doesn't lose any heat and it tracks the water bath temperature almost perfectly. With the Jobo the tank is only partially submerged and so the temperature of the water has to be higher to compensate for the losses.
Sounds complicated but it's a little experimentation and calibration that has to be done beforehand and after that it runs fine.
A 2min prewet with water of 38°C solved my problems that i had with temperature drop after pouring the chemistry in.
I also now toss the chemistry after one run, regardless if there were 1 or 2 rolls of film in the tank. This leads to a yield of 10 rolls worst case and 20 rolls best case with the 2,5l kit. Quality and reproducibility is very important for me, so i switched to one shot.
In the last 2 weeks when the autumn colors were at its peak, i exposed 8 or 10 rolls of film (Velvia 50 and Provia 100F) and the development was perfect and consistent. The 4x5 sheets also.
For 4x5 the only viable option is rotation because filling the tank to the brim for inverson uses way to much chemistry. But maybe the Stearman Press SP-445 tank works with manual agiatation. It uses 450ml which is about the same as the smaller 1520 Jobo tank
that i used in the beginning.
Chris
extremely uniform temperature distribution (within 0.1°C) by its circulating pump. A little experimentation has to be done to find the right thermostat setpoint. The temperature usually has to be some tenths of a centigrade higher to get the correct 38.0 +/- 0.3°C in the tank.
This setup is also used for 120 film. The modification of the Jobo was done more because of my obsession with precision than out of necessity.
The chemistry is decanted in 10 bottles of 50ml for each concentrate immediately after i open the bottles the first time and this works perfectly. So i mix up only 250ml at a time which is enough for the tank.
The most critical concentrate is the first developer. The others are not that fincky in my experience. Inert gas in the concentrate bottles is a must.
Before i had the Jobo, i used the sous vide in a basin of water and agitated by hand (but only 120 at that time). Worked fine too, but is tedious as one has to splash around in the water all the time^^ But if you submerge the tank completely, there is no part of it exposed
to the air and so it doesn't lose any heat and it tracks the water bath temperature almost perfectly. With the Jobo the tank is only partially submerged and so the temperature of the water has to be higher to compensate for the losses.
Sounds complicated but it's a little experimentation and calibration that has to be done beforehand and after that it runs fine.
A 2min prewet with water of 38°C solved my problems that i had with temperature drop after pouring the chemistry in.
I also now toss the chemistry after one run, regardless if there were 1 or 2 rolls of film in the tank. This leads to a yield of 10 rolls worst case and 20 rolls best case with the 2,5l kit. Quality and reproducibility is very important for me, so i switched to one shot.
In the last 2 weeks when the autumn colors were at its peak, i exposed 8 or 10 rolls of film (Velvia 50 and Provia 100F) and the development was perfect and consistent. The 4x5 sheets also.
For 4x5 the only viable option is rotation because filling the tank to the brim for inverson uses way to much chemistry. But maybe the Stearman Press SP-445 tank works with manual agiatation. It uses 450ml which is about the same as the smaller 1520 Jobo tank
that i used in the beginning.
Chris
developing color is not any harder than B&W, and in some ways its a little easier. the only difficult thing is keeping the chems to temp. I have a large slow cooker that I use to make a water bath. then keep the chems in there so they stay at 103 degrees. after that its develop by numbers so to speak (bath 1, bath 2 and so on). I been doing it for years this way. i was scared at first cause everyone made it sound hard, but it really isnt. I use a simple patersen tank with mod54. I had the tank already for B&W so all that was needed was the mod54. I really dont need a jobo and they are very expensive. I started with the 3 bath and then moved to fuji 6 bath. There really is something magical about pulling your film out of the tank (or final rinse) and being able to see your final image. for me, the hardest part is waiting for them to dry. using replenishment means using the larger volume tank is irrelevant.
the easy part is there is 1 set of chems for all the film and the times are the same regardless of if its E100, velvia or provia
john
the easy part is there is 1 set of chems for all the film and the times are the same regardless of if its E100, velvia or provia
john
Shooting color transparencies is difficult - it's a constant lesson in metering, which has to be spot on. But when it is, the results are spectacular.
Developing them is a breeze. All you need is a sous vide heater, a digital thermometer (I use a cooking thermometer), 3 plastic bottles and a chemistry kit such as the Arista. Instructions are straightforward and simple. I use a Paterson Tank for 35mm and 120 film. Haven't had time to shoot Kodak e100 in 4x5 yet, but i plan to use my SP-445 for the development.
Developing them is a breeze. All you need is a sous vide heater, a digital thermometer (I use a cooking thermometer), 3 plastic bottles and a chemistry kit such as the Arista. Instructions are straightforward and simple. I use a Paterson Tank for 35mm and 120 film. Haven't had time to shoot Kodak e100 in 4x5 yet, but i plan to use my SP-445 for the development.
I've only done re-use on E-6 or C41. How long does your working and stock chemistry last?
How are you storing the stock? I like using a wine bag for replenishment of Xtol. If I could mix up 1 gal bags of E-6 and get a reasonable shelf life out out of the stock, I'd be a happy camper. I've also heard that the acidity makes using wine bags inappropriate for color chemistry.
Temperature and timing are them most critical factors. I use the Jobo processor with the 3010 Expert Drum [up to six 4"x5" film sheets] for all my 4"x5" film development, including black & white, because it gives me great and consistent results, which is what you are after.
3-bath, of course. Thanks!
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the Jobo tank sounds interesting, since I’m currently wasting a lot of chemicals in the larger Paterson tank.
How does it hold 4x5 film?
Regarding labs that process E-6, check these guys out. E-6 is all that they do.
https://www.agximaging.com/
https://www.agximaging.com/
I also use wine bags for my color films. so I have a total of 12 bags. 6 for working solutions that are 3L and then 6 for replenishment that are also 3L. having the tap on the bags makes it really easy when you need only 75ml for replenishing things like reversal bath or fixer. with the bags, as you know, stay pretty much free of most oxygen. you do get some when you pour the chems back in the bags. with moderate ussage, and manula replenishing if they havent been used for a while, I get 2+ years before I feel that I need to dump and remake a working solution. But that only applies to 1st developer and color developer as they go out first. storing the stock solutions topped off with propane has let me keep them for 2 years as well before they (1st and color dev) need to be dumped. the other 4 baths seem to last quite a bit longer. Im on 4+ years and they are still good.
Those are very good times. How much do you replenish per roll?
Hi. Only six? Mine does ten.
The 3006 takes up to six 4x5" or 5x7"...
Yes, great drums indeed.
i use the amounts that fuji has in their sheets. so....
1st dev 120 ml per roll of 35mm and 120, 240 for 220 rolls 30ml per 4x5 sheet
rev bath 60 ml per 35mm and 120 120 per 220 and 15 per 4x5 sheet
color dev 120ml per 35mm and 120 roll, 240 per 220 roll and 30 per 4x4 sheet
pre bleach 60 per 35mm and 120, 240 per 220 and 15 per 4x5
bleach I do 60ml after every session but before each batch I give it a nice shot of canned air to oxygenate it
fixer 60 ml per 35mm and 120, 120 per 220 and 15 per 4x5 sheet
final rinse is mixed fresh every session with distilled water
i have a spreadsheet that I use when i develop but figured it was easier to just post the times (albeit in a poor format). Ill post 1 of the data sheets so you can get an idea. I do add a little to make it a round number
john
+1
Here are still good labs (like hsl in Düsseldorf) doing E6 or C41 in 4x5" for 4 Euro each.
OK, interesting. Thank you,
Very good advice! The lack of a pump on the smaller Jobo processor is fixed with the sous vide. I've used the 2509n reels, they work great. I cheat and use IR goggles to help my fingers in loading the reels. I've used the Tetenal 3 bath and Fuji (and in the past Kodak) 6 bath chemistry, got excellent results with all. Tetenal overstate the capacity, IMHO. Your point about leaving no oxygen is super important. I quite by accident, grabbed a small, absolutely full, 125mL bottle of Tetenal 1st developer that I had split from a 5L Tetenal kit. I used it in place of the exhausted Fuji developer. It turned out that I had decanted the Tetenal 1st over 4 years prior. Still worked perfect, there was zero air in that bottle.
Whoa! There's another self-replenishing B&W developer that's available in reasonable size package! Is it available individually, or only as part of a kit?
(Sorry to potentially hijack the thread, but I'd been looking for self-replenishing alternatives to Xtol et al and Ilford DD, which latter is only available in 25 L packages).
The Jobo 2520 tank uses a spiral to hold a maximum of 6 sheets of 4x5". The small chemistry amount of 250ml (officially 270ml as far as i know) only works when used in rotation. (e.g. in a Jobo CPE/CPP)
But i can imagine that rotating it by hand in a water bath could also work. Haven't tried it, also because i like the reproducibility and convenience of the Jobo.
The holder (P/N 2509n) is relatively easy to load in the dark. There exists some kind of loading aid but i always got along without it.
What kind of IR goggles do you use?
I decant the FD in 50ml bottles, but pre-measured with an volumetric flask and therefore with some air above the concentrate which i replace by intert gas. Occasionally, there are bottles going bad where i do not know the reason. They turn yellow while the others are fine. I think de oldest one was almost a year old.
The reason for the yellow concentrate is the oxygen, i know, but i don't know if the displacement of the air didn't work as it should or if the cap was not tight enough and air crept in. I usually retighten the bottles 1-2 times after they are initially filled.
A further incident happened when i opened a Tetenal Magic Box E6 and the FD concentrate had a slight violet tint. I thought that it went bad altough it was still in date and contacted the manufacturer. They checked back with the batch number and performed sensitometric tests that were fine. So i used the chemistry from this batch and it worked flawlessly. We do not know
what was the reason, but i suspect some contaminant which did not affect the chemistry itself because oxidation turns it yellow and not violet. Their Tetenal customer support was top notch.
Your experience with the zero-air bottle made me think about trying plastic bottles of 50ml where i can squeeze the air out completely. I used glass from the beginning for its near zero oxygen permeability.
What kind bottle did you use?
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