Any comment on Kiev 80 or 88 ?

[Kino]

I used professionally Salut, then Kiev-88 in 80-90th. Extremely bad mechanic is the main problem, not lenses. The only positive is the price & Arsat 30mm. Pentagon Six much better, I also had a full set with 5 lenses in early 2000.
With nowadays prices Bronica, Mamiya, Fuji are the better choice.
But of cause, the result depends not from your gear only
Here is the photo taken in 1981 with Russian TLR Liubitel costed about $10:

Sergey,

Yes, I imagine trying to shoot professionally with these cameras was very challenging and I agree if you need a workhorse and must use the camera day in and out for professional jobs, I would not rely on my Kiev cameras, but for casual use they do have a certain attraction.

Wonderful photo with the Luibitel! They are quite capable cameras if you use them properly, as you most certainly have!

 

[Kino]

I had a Kiev 60 which took beautiful sharp photos with the Arsat 80mm it came with. But it was heavy and always felt like it would break when I wound on. Picture spacing varied. The 6C (or 6S) is an earlier version with the shutter button the other side if I remember right.

More recently I had a Kiev 88 and an 88CM. The 88 has the foil shutters, screw mount, and despite it's decrepit cosmetic state it worked fine. The 88CM was one of the Hartblei reworked versions, cloth shutter, Pentacon 6 breech mount etc, and it worked very smoothly. I didn't like the film magazines with either (the old style backs seem easier to me than the new style). You have to be careful to wind on before changing shutter speed.

The lenses can be adapted to other mounts (eg Mamiya 645, M42, Sony E).

Joe,

Sounds like we both have (had) the same set of gear. I have all the lenses except for the Arsat 55mm F4.5 perspective control lens and the 120mm Vega. All are of varying quality; most are good, but you have to be real careful with mounting and unmounting the lenses. No one mentions this anywhere I can see online, but some of these lenses will wreck the aperture stop-down lever in the lens mount IF you don't have them set to wide open so that the aperture pin does not extend fully.

I have the Arax adapter to use these lenses on the 88CM and the 6C, but hauling them around is like moving day and is almost as bad a toting a 8x10 view camera.

Thanks!

 

[itsdoable]

Yes, I am sure. I went back and examined it; I am certain there is no clear rear filter on the lens. I just have the Yellow, Orange and Light Blue filters that are attached to the lens case top.

I think I might have found the issue; the Yellow filter which I placed on the lens initially has some sort of malformed thread that does not allow it to fully seat. After carefully cleaning the threads of all three of the filters, the Light Blue filter fits the best and is almost flush with the end of the lens. The Yellow sits almost one full millimeter above where the blue filter sits.

I will probably remove the filter element from the yellow ring and move it to one of the other rings for now and then try to find a replacement clear filter in the 38x0.5mm size.

Many thanks to you both for the suggestions! It caused me to go back and look at the problem with a fresh set of eyes!

I will try a roll and see what transpires. The light blue (80A?) should be fine for either color or b&w until I can find another clear filter.

I have two 3.5/30 fisheyes, a Zodiak version that was modified for Hasselblad, and an Arsat version in Kiev-88 mount.

The Arsat Kiev-88 focuses to infinity on all my Kievs ('83, '96 & post '00) with the rear filter. The clearance is very tight, so the filter must be fully threaded in, and the lens properly calibrated.

The filter (knurled) extends ~1mm past the lens mount when at infinity.

the 30mm is sensitive to deviation from infinity at the stop, so tiny miss-calibrations of the body, focus screen, or lens will be visible, and one never knows what has been done to these items over the years - and unlike Hasselblad, most were never serviced.

My Hasselblad converted version only clears the 2000/200 mirror without the rear filter at infinity. It cannot clear the 500 mirror, but that is usually not an issue.

The difference without the rear filter is subtle, the center is just as good, the corners show more CA and field curvature, but most of that is gone by f/8.

If you use the len without the rear filter, the infinity stop will need to b e adjusted.

 

[kl122002]

I own a 1979 Salyut-S, and so far, I'm liking it. But it was broken when I got it, and I spent a number of hours learning how to repair it. I used good-quality new adhesives, lubricants and other materials sourced from USA, Switzerland and Japan. And the result is a camera which operates smoothly as you'd expect from a higher-end design.

My impression of Soviet cameras is that, perhaps when the factories were properly funded, quality could be very good. But in more difficult times, the factories devised "creative" solutions in order to meet their production quotas, and sometimes these solutions involved using older-style parts, or batches of parts which had previously been rejected.

That's exactly what impressed me alot . I have 3 Kiev 4 bodies and they were made in diffferent years. Although they all looked the same, but just looking into screws and and inside, I can see they are using different materials . I have seen some initals inside and looks like they are trying to tell how to adjust & calibration .

Obviously during the bad days , in one of the Kiev 4, the gears seems are made from very weak brass instead of other soft metals. I was afriad it would broke some time but it is the one that last for 20 years without any problem .

Really cool to see how Russian Zodiak 8 perform , they are really impressive !

 

[polka]

Very nice photo! My lens came with 3 color filters and no clear filter. Does your clear filter have any appearance of being a diopter or is it simply clear glass?

When not using a color filter, the clear (UV) filter must mandatorily replace it, otherwise you cannot reach focus at infinity.

POLKa

I have 2 Kiev88 tuned by ARAX (and several lenses, including the Zodiac) and I like them, but you have to handle them with great care.

 

[kl122002]

23/9Update here :

I received my Kiev 80. It was order from ebay and took awhile to reach me. I thought I might had bought a defective camera after I spotted the film/camera release indicators are in red while mirror is lowered. When it reached my hand I can't crank the shutter as well .

Since it could be defective so I tried without much care. Once I pull out the shutter speed dial and tried on B , it cranked . Hoorray !!! I see the bronze metal curtains moved and all gears just making sounds like as if they are rushing back to its right place! All the speeds are right. Then I lubricated the reachable gears (lower part) with clock oil and it instantly gives a better work .

There are minor problems I have noticed :

• Sometimes after changing speed I can't press the shutter release . I have to pull the speed dial out and turn it for/backward 1-2 times then it works
• I have to keep the release pressed for 1/4 and 1/2 otherwise the second curtain just comes out bit and stay there. Do I have to keep the shutter release pressed for 1/4 and 1/2 speed setting ?

 

[Kino]

23/9Update here :

I received my Kiev 80. It was order from ebay and took awhile to reach me. I thought I might had bought a defective camera after I spotted the film/camera release indicators are in red while mirror is lowered. When it reached my hand I can't crank the shutter as well .

Since it could be defective so I tried without much care. Once I pull out the shutter speed dial and tried on B , it cranked . Hoorray !!! I see the bronze metal curtains moved and all gears just making sounds like as if they are rushing back to its right place! All the speeds are right. Then I lubricated the reachable gears (lower part) with clock oil and it instantly gives a better work .

There are minor problems I have noticed :

• Sometimes after changing speed I can't press the shutter release . I have to pull the speed dial out and turn it for/backward 1-2 times then it works
• I have to keep the release pressed for 1/4 and 1/2 otherwise the second curtain just comes out bit and stay there. Do I have to keep the shutter release pressed for 1/4 and 1/2 speed setting ?

Be very careful, just cranking around on knobs will destroy this camera!

Go here and read this list of "Do's and Don't" actions: https://www.kievaholic.com/dosanddonts.html

NEVER TURN THE SHUTTER SPEED DIAL WITHOUT THE CAMERA BEING COCKED!

Turning the shutter speed knob backward is not something I would do, even if the shutter is cocked.

Sounds like your camera has not been used for a while. I would remove your magazine and excercise the camera through the entire shutter speed range several times being careful to not touch the curtain!

Crank the advance evenly and smoothly; don't rapidly jerk the advance! Wait to hear the shutter cocking catch "click" and don't apply great force either.

Be very deliberate when making any dial adjustments; crank smoothly, pull out, move and reinsert the shutter speed knob with precision, but not force. Push the shutter release and wait for everything to cycle properly. This is not a camera designed for rapid-fire shooting; be deliberate!

If this doesn't make the camera more responsive, then you probably need to send it in for a CLA.

These cameras do not tolerate random messing about with the any part of the shutter speed dial or gear train; it will wreck the gear stack.

Go to the main page of https://www.kievaholic.com and read as much as you can BEFORE attempting any self-repairs.

They are NOT a Hassleblad or even a "modern" camera type that is forgiving of mistakes, but they can be a useful, fun camera to use if you treat them according to their design.

If you want a knock-about, fast-shooting camera tolerant of abuse, return this camera immediately and get something else!

 

[OAPOli]

• Sometimes after changing speed I can't press the shutter release . I have to pull the speed dial out and turn it for/backward 1-2 times then it works
• I have to keep the release pressed for 1/4 and 1/2 otherwise the second curtain just comes out bit and stay there. Do I have to keep the shutter release pressed for 1/4 and 1/2 speed setting ?

1) is not normal; 2) is expected. You have to keep the release depressed during the entire exposure for the curtains to cycle properly. Usually not a problem for the fast speeds.

Please check the "do's and dont's" linked above. For piece of mind I would get the camera checked if that's an option.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I was given an 80 with 3 lens, two of the lens did not work, the back had light leaks, and the focal plane shutters were off. I just gave it away to someone who said they have it serviced. I know there are some that have rebuilt in Kiev that users really like, the lens are cheap, but for the money I would get a Bronica.

+1

 

[Mr Flibble]

As mentioned above, I would not rely on a Kiev-88 as an everyday or professional shooter. But I like to feed film through mine from time to time and the results from the Volna/Vega 80mm f/2.8 are fine.
Fed two rolls through one yesterday, with a Mir-26b 45mm f/3.5 on it.

The light leaks from the magazine I've noticed generally appear when inserting and removing the dark slide, because the seal is a single piece of folded mylar. So I remove mine right before winding to the first frame and insert it after it has been fully wound onto the take-up spool.

Some magazines don't lock in place when the dark slide is removed, that is something to be mindful of.

Of the three 88s I've had, I had one bad body that I gave away to a guy who repairs Soviet era cameras and he pretty much had to do a full rebuild on it.

The problem with some lenses I've had is that the aperture blades get sticky and won't open up when the stop down-pin is pressed.

Volna-3, Fomapan 100

 

[kl122002]

I do the test run yesterday and I am pretty surprised the camera actually run well. No shutter jam. In fact I just ignored the problem of switching shutter speed.

I have made few shoots with Ilford Ortho+ and they are nice in the negatives. However the last 2 frame (#11, #12) are having very uneven spacing and the last one (#12) has just gone into half or less. Other than that there is nothing wrong with other first 10 frames. I can remember when I was advancing the shutter it feels like I have over turned something? Is this problem from the film back problem or from the camera itself?

 

[Mr Flibble]

If it was in the camera itself I think it will show up on all frames. The magazine itself handles the frame spacing. The amount the take-up spool turns depends on the frame number counter.

But yeah, the crunchy winding always makes me cringe a little bit, hoping it works properly.


Ruined a roll last week apparently. 1/30th was capping and this particular magazine did not have any light seals in it -_-
Another roll shot at 1/125 with another magazine was fine.

 

[kl122002]

If it was in the camera itself I think it will show up on all frames. The magazine itself handles the frame spacing. The amount the take-up spool turns depends on the frame number counter.

But yeah, the crunchy winding always makes me cringe a little bit, hoping it works properly.


Ruined a roll last week apparently. 1/30th was capping and this particular magazine did not have any light seals in it -_-
Another roll shot at 1/125 with another magazine was fine.

1/30 and 1/15 are the problem to me as well. Just like I mentioned before, the shutter dial sometimes hold up my release button because the gear inside are slightly off at its right position. I then noticed there is some small wiggles there. And then , just while testing, the shutter just stuck few times itself. The mirror stuck at the up.
I thought its dead so I have given this camera with little snap and force on winding the dial , and then the shutter runs again. that is real crazy I don't think these could be solved easily.

LOL now I know why Kiev 80/88 has such bad reputation. Its great when it works; and when it is down obviously it is a disaster. I wonder its original , the Hasselblad 1000F / 1600F could have the same problem .

 

[guangong]

These cameras are clones of the unsuccessful Hasselblad 1000F, which had a fragile shutter mechanism. There was a reason Hasselblad produced the C cameras.

 

[kl122002]

A rough photo scan by my phone using Kodak app.
Ilford Ortho + / Kiev 80/ Vega 12B

 

[ags2mikon]

Time is valuable. Don't waste it on these things. Been there, done that and have the tee shirt.

 

[Kino]

The mirror stuck at the up.
I thought its dead so I have given this camera with little snap and force on winding the dial , and then the shutter runs again. that is real crazy I don't think these could be solved easily.

Any camera will fail with incorrect handling. From your explanation, and your prior comments on cranking around the shutter speed dial, you've probably already damaged the gear train IF it wasn't damaged when you bought it.

Did you read any user manuals or just pick up the camera and think you could instinctively use it?

As for spacing, there is a very specific way you have to load the magazine to avoid spacing issues.

LOL now I know why Kiev 80/88 has such bad reputation. Its great when it works; and when it is down obviously it is a disaster. I wonder its original , the Hasselblad 1000F / 1600F could have the same problem .

For the most part, these cameras have a bad reputation because people refuse to learn how to use the camera properly and blame the camera for not operating in a manner they assume is proper.

Check out how many cries for help titled "Help my Hasselblad 500C is Jammed" exist online for the very same reason; failure to operate the camera properly.

Anyway, it's your money and your camera.

 

[kl122002]

Any camera will fail with incorrect handling. From your explanation, and your prior comments on cranking around the shutter speed dial, you've probably already damaged the gear train IF it wasn't damaged when you bought it.

Did you read any user manuals or just pick up the camera and think you could instinctively use it?

As for spacing, there is a very specific way you have to load the magazine to avoid spacing issues.



For the most part, these cameras have a bad reputation because people refuse to learn how to use the camera properly and blame the camera for not operating in a manner they assume is proper.

Check out how many cries for help titled "Help my Hasselblad 500C is Jammed" exist online for the very same reason; failure to operate the camera properly.

Anyway, it's your money and your camera.

Are your words implying this camera was good when it was in seller 's hand and I am the bad guy? He sold this camera "AS-IS" to me and not accepting return. At that time I already know what could possibly happen and therefore I have never surprised all these happenings.

I have read the manual from butkus and also read the kievaholic. And I didn't just run a single roll, but there are 3 rolls and all have the same problem on the last 2 spacing as well. It must be either the film back or the camera itself. I ordered another filmback and waiting for the test.

 

[Kino]

No, I was implying that it could have been bad before you got it, as people do not tend to read the manual and try to use it without knowing how it works.

You did state that. "I have given this camera with little snap and force on winding the dial" which could be a very bad thing.

If the tests with the new back do not improve your situation, Arax still services these cameras in Kiev, Ukraine. I had 3 bodies serviced by them and they work fine, but be sure to send the magazines with them to match them to the camera body.

Sounds like you have already developed a dislike for the camera, so switching to a Bronica or a Hasselblad might be a better option than investing in a camera you already distrust.

 

[kl122002]

No, I was implying that it could have been bad before you got it, as people do not tend to read the manual and try to use it without knowing how it works.

You did state that. "I have given this camera with little snap and force on winding the dial" which could be a very bad thing.

If the tests with the new back do not improve your situation, Arax still services these cameras in Kiev, Ukraine. I had 3 bodies serviced by them and they work fine, but be sure to send the magazines with them to match them to the camera body.

Sounds like you have already developed a dislike for the camera, so switching to a Bronica or a Hasselblad might be a better option than investing in a camera you already distrust.

I said nothing about distrust this camera. I just said I have already expected this camera is not a normal working camera since the day I have placed my order.

Bronica SQ and ETRS already in my home , Hasselbald is never needed since I already have Rolleiflex SL66 in my workplace . I have never tried any East German or Russian cameras and so that's why I give it a try. It is not disappointing after all.

I believe the camera could already have flaws before reaching my hand. Somehow I just managed to make it back to work "as it should be". This one with wiggling speed dial wheel , I believe it is likely having worn wheels that makes the right speech selecting/winding gear failed to cope with the gears at the bottom.

 

[xya]

If you load the magazine the right way, you should easily get your 12 exposures. Putting the film under the silver rail is important. On all of mine (and I have quite some) I get 13 exposures https://www.oddcameras.com/kiev_88.htm at the very bottom of the page. Hope it helps....

 

[Kino]

I like the newer NT style backs a little bit better, but I have more of the old style and they work fine.

 

[LeoniD]

I have never tried any East German or Russian cameras and so that's why I give it a try

Welp, you're out of luck here, kek. Kievs are neither russian or German.
That said, these cameras are perfectly normal IF they weren't used with old lubricant still inside. Soviets sucked at a lot of things and one of them is definitely making lubricants that won't damage the camera they're used in after sitting on a shelf for 40 years

 

[kl122002]

Update
I bought another Kiev 88 but was heavily damaged during the shipping. The carton box seems have been soaked with water and dropped hard on the ground . The camera body didn't survive, except the film backs and the lens . I think I get get the focusing screen as backup ?

I like theMC Volna-3 , it is much lighter than the Vega 12 . I have sent the MC Volna-3 for CLA and now ready for work .

 

[Kino]

Update
I bought another Kiev 88 but was heavily damaged during the shipping. The carton box seems have been soaked with water and dropped hard on the ground . The camera body didn't survive, except the film backs and the lens . I think I get get the focusing screen as backup ?

I like theMC Volna-3 , it is much lighter than the Vega 12 . I have sent the MC Volna-3 for CLA and now ready for work .

Wow. That is disappointing about the Kiev 88! Hope you get some claim money back or a partial refund! Don't toss the body; lots of spare parts in there you can harvest in an emergency...