Any bulk loaders to avoid? Or best to look for?

neeksgeek · Dec 2, 2021

I’ve used the Alden and the Lloyd’s, and prefer the Alden for the click stops. I like bulk loading for the inexpensive access to unusual emulsions like Eastman Double-X and Kodak 2238.

131802 · Dec 2, 2021

mshchem said:
I would like one of the Leica, work in the dark winders

I use one of those. They pop on ebay from time to time. It takes a bit of practice to get it right, but there's no lost frame(s) at the end of each roll, and your film makes one less trip through the cassette's light trap.

Don_ih · Dec 3, 2021

I have two types of bulk loaders. The Lloyd type are pretty fool-proof. It's unlikely that dust or any other contaminant will get on its felt, since the film only travels out through it. The felt may deteriorate, though. The Watson can get a bit stiff on the frame counter - I have one that is so stiff, it got stuck and stripped a section of sprocket holes. That surprised me.
As for what @AgX was saying, I routinely load rolls of film from canned film. I've seen so many strips of film hanging to dry, I can usually estimate in the dark the length of film I want within a couple of frames.
If film stays in the Watson long enough, it gets a kink (more of a bend) where the gate has been pressed against it. That can sometimes cause a problem in development, if that part of the film presses against the emulsion on another part of the film on the developing reel. (I load film on the developing reel emulsion facing out.) I ended up with blank spots in the middle of an exposed frame a couple of times because of that.
Tape is important. It needs to be good enough to not peel back when the taped part of the film comes out of the cassette. Frankly, doing what @MattKing suggested (stopping at a certain count before the end of the roll) is probably the best idea, since it would avoid the tape coming out through the felt of the cassette, which can eventually wreck the felt. The edges of tape have bits of adhesive sticking out. That will often mess up the last frame, since the emulsion was wrapped against it. That adhesive will get on the felt.

AgX · Dec 3, 2021

Concerning metering the length of a strip without a loader:
one can use a long board with two nails in it set at the respective distance.

Concerning advice on a specific model of loader:
the LPL loader has got a gate that not necessarily opens enough, thus there are chances for the film being scratched.

(I got several old-stock LPL loaders which I once acquired for a job where loaders made sense. But I never used them, thus did not yet tackle this gate failure.)

Nitroplait · Dec 3, 2021

AgX said:
the LPL loader has got a gate that not necessarily opens enough, thus there are chances for the film being scratched.

I am not 100% sure, but LPL loader seems to be in family with, or perhaps a forefather to Hansa, Kaiser, AP Bobinquick, Hiroder loaders - the latter 4 are the same product made in Japan, just sold under different brand names and this type have served me well for decades without scratch issues.
They are still sold new, but often with quite large price differences - Kaiser seems to command a premium for reasons unknown to me. I like these models but they don't have a build in "cassette opener mechanism" thus if using Nikon F/F2, Leica, Contax metal cassettes, this model will not work.
I also use an old Füllfix German loader. It is very rigid and gives good support for opening and closing those old reloadable cassettes. It does have a felt light trap, but haven't caused me scratch issues.
It is a 17m loader - which should normally be avoided. Although 17m bulk rolls are still sold, selection is limited and savings are not as good. What I normally do is to move a 100 feet bulk roll from the Hansa loader after it is half used over into the Füllfix loader.

AgX · Dec 3, 2021

As said I have not yet dived into this matter and speak based on memory, but I could see the gate not opening fully, seemingly due elasticity within the respective mechanism.
Good to learn that your samples work fine.

Saganich · Dec 3, 2021

I use both Lloyd and Watson loaders without any complaints. I agree the cassettes are more important than the loaders regarding film damage. For Leica users, the Watson works with brass cassettes.

Moose22 · Dec 3, 2021

I ended up getting an Alden. I'll have my eye out for a second, maybe. Y'all have convinced me that the felt isn't necessarily a reason to worry, so I might even look at the newer ones that don't waste film.

Starting with FP4 and a stack of Soviet metal cartridges. Those are coming from Ukraine, though, so I might not be shooting my own loads until next year, but I'm in no hurry. Have 4 rolls of FP4 in the fridge still.

I'm actually in for more than the cost of just buying 20 rolls of FP4, I think it'll take two two bulk rolls to break even. But this is a fun project and I am excited to be able to do things like 10 frame rolls. I even made a couple DX labels out of labels and copper foil tape -- not that I need them, just because I could.

binglebugbob · Dec 7, 2021

to prevent scratching (or at least to reduce the likelihood, an old timer showed me that you can cut a strip of clean felt to about the width of a roll of film and pull it through the felt light trap in the loader AND through the film cannister. It "combs" the dust out of the felt. I have a couple of extra Watson loaders I could part with.

AgX · Dec 8, 2021

You mean velvet and not felt.

binglebugbob · Dec 12, 2021

When I said felt, I meant felt.

AgX · Dec 12, 2021

I myself got a german loader that got a light seal the film has to pass, made from felt, what I think is not the best idea.

But how to "comb" felt with felt is beyond my imagination. And see this issue from the perspective of an engineer.

binglebugbob · Dec 12, 2021

Think of using one hair brush to clean another. Simple, really.

AgX · Dec 13, 2021

Not at all.
Felt does not have hairs, Velvet has.

AnselMortensen · Dec 13, 2021

I came here for an argument.
I guess I found the right place!

binglebugbob · Dec 29, 2021

Velvet was what we used to use in science classes to generate static electricity. But if it works for you, great! Whatever floats your boat.

Deleted member 88956 · Dec 30, 2021

Let me add: velvet was always used in light traps (where pass through is required), NOT felt. That is because of directional nature of velvet's structure vs. chaotic arrangement of fibers in felt. If one wants trouble, felt is a good choice for a light trap.

As for generating static electricity in a science class: velvet / felt / any synthetic material will work equally well. While felt can be made of natural fibers, it is not a common product and would not be in the right place as a light trap material simply due to moisture absorbing nature of natural fibers.

ColdEye · Jan 7, 2022

I was gifted one of the Arista/Bobinquick loaders. Seems pretty cool, cant see the downsides to it. Before this I used both the Llyod and the Alden, I kept the LLyod.

Randy Stewart · May 31, 2022

Nicholas Lindan said:
Some people like the Lloyd - it's certainly simple but the light trap is felt. I had mine attacked by moths. I never had one scratch the film but that is a potential problem. They are still made but it is a copy - they used to cost $7 but prices have risen since the 60's.

The Watson uses a gated light trap so nothing touches the film (except the felt lip of the film cassette you are loading) and they have a frame counter so you aren't counting the turns of the crank like you are on the Lloyd.

The Alden is better made than the Watson and has the advantage of opening up felt-less Nikon and Leica cassettes.

If you are going to be using cassettes with felt lips then can I suggest the Soviet variety. It is the one Soviet photography product that stands head and shoulders above its decadent western imperialist competition.

When I started into this trap in the late 1950s, I bought a Lloyds loader because it was the cheapest available. After a few years, it did give me a few scratches, so I dumped it. I've owed several brands thereafter. The "teardrop" shaped Watson style units work well enough, but some have loose tolerances so the film counter skips and ios not always not reliable. IMO, the best of the bunch is the Alden units. They used to be much more expensive than others, but now they seem to price for little or no premium, so buy the best. If new is required, the best seems to be the AP unit, also sold under several other brand names, but it runs about $110 US, or 3 or4 times the price of used Aldens, so....

Sharktooth · May 31, 2022

If you're looking for a Watson style bulk loader make sure you check that the cover lock swingarm isn't broken off. I've seen several that have the swingarm broken off, probably by people trying to force it open before reading the instructions.

As has been previously mentioned, I'd also recommend loading the film to the cassette in the dark. This will avoid exposing the last shot or two on the roll. If you're used to squeezing out the last frame on the roll, you'll be sadly disappointed later when you discover that it has already exposed when loading the cassette.

Any bulk loaders to avoid? Or best to look for?

Deleted member 88956

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