Ansel Adams - Moonrise in Santa Fe (actually "Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexico")

[Alan Edward Klein]

Sometimes he was just lucky, and even more often, worked really really hard to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear negative.
Hard work. Good Luck. Right place at the right time. That's life! But your need the skills to take advantage.

He had skills. But I don't think all this ballyhoo about previsualization is warranted. He snapped a lot of pictures just like the rest of us. But his followers make him seem like a mystical savant. If this negative was an example of his previsualization, I must be missing something. He knew that the moon is at "sunny 16" because it's in the sun. That's it.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I inherited on of those old Weston meters. It still "works". Pretty simple. Point it south, take a reading; point it north, take a reading; point it east, take a reading; point it west, take a reading. Average those, then write the number on a piece of paper and put in a boiling cauldron containing the eye of a newt, the toe of a frog, and the tongue of a dog. After twenty minutes, pull it out and read if you can what that says.

 

[BrianShaw]

I inherited on of those old Weston meters. It still "works". Pretty simple. Point it south, take a reading; point it north, take a reading; point it east, take a reading; point it west, take a reading. Average those, then write the number on a piece of paper and put in a boiling cauldron containing the eye of a newt, the toe of a frog, and the tongue of a dog. After twenty minutes, pull it out and read if you can what that says.

Why not just previsualize the answer?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Has anyone figured out the luminance of a spy balloon over Hernandez NM yet?

 

[Vaughn]

Moonrise over Pie Pan, 1977

Moonrise Over Pie Pan, Capitol Reef National Park, Utah, John Pfahl ^ Minneapolis Institute of Art

collections.artsmia.org

 

[MattKing]

He had skills. But I don't think all this ballyhoo about previsualization is warranted. He snapped a lot of pictures just like the rest of us. But his followers make him seem like a mystical savant. If this negative was an example of his previsualization, I must be missing something. He knew that the moon is at "sunny 16" because it's in the sun. That's it.

The "visualization" that Adams wrote about - not "previsualization, that was Minor White - was more about how the print could be made to appear based on the scene, the exposure chosen, the film development controls applied and the printing manipulations available and employed. It is/was all related to knowledge about the capabilities of one's tools, as well as the capabilities of one's vision.
And his knowledge about the luminance of the image of the moon was more than just Sunny 16 - it also factored in the reflectance of the moon.
"Moonrise" is the result of seeing an image that was fleeting in its nature, and quickly applying as much of his experiential knowledge as the moment permitted to a very difficult photographic challenge - followed up by years of darkroom exploration. Most people would have looked at the negative (in its un-intensified original form) and put it into the discard file, as a likely lost cause. But Adams had a vision for it, and the printing chops to do something about that.
I equate the evolution of his prints of "Moonrise" over the years to something similar to the evolution in performance over time that a good musician will bring to a piece of music that they really want to play. A not inappropriate analogy I would think for a photographer trained originally as a musician.

 

[pbromaghin]

A good photographer is one that doesn't let people see his rejected dregs.

 

[takilmaboxer]

He had skills. But I don't think all this ballyhoo about previsualization is warranted. He snapped a lot of pictures just like the rest of us. But his followers make him seem like a mystical savant. If this negative was an example of his previsualization, I must be missing something. He knew that the moon is at "sunny 16" because it's in the sun. That's it.

The OP asked a simple question regarding AA's decision on a specific exposure. There's been some excellent discussion in response. Alas the thread has deteriorated into amateur photogs engaging in Ansel bashing. Perhaps you gentlemen would be so kind as to let us know when one of your prints sells for six figures. Because in the good old USA, a good photographer is one who makes a whole lot of money at it. Or at least, is exhibited in museums around the world.

 

[Sirius Glass]

He had skills. But I don't think all this ballyhoo about previsualization is warranted. He snapped a lot of pictures just like the rest of us. But his followers make him seem like a mystical savant. If this negative was an example of his previsualization, I must be missing something. He knew that the moon is at "sunny 16" because it's in the sun. That's it.

You do visualization when you choose to use the graduated ND filter to keep the sky from being too light, slow down the exposure for a greater depth of field, shorten the exposure for motion, ... All of that has to do with how then end product will turn out. There are more choices for black & white than color.

 

[GregY]

The OP asked a simple question regarding AA's decision on a specific exposure. There's been some excellent discussion in response. Alas the thread has deteriorated into amateur photogs engaging in Ansel bashing. Perhaps you gentlemen would be so kind as to let us know when one of your prints sells for six figures. Because in the good old USA, a good photographer is one who makes a whole lot of money at it. Or at least, is exhibited in museums around the world.

Just what I was thinking. Thank You!

 

[DREW WILEY]

Terrible stuff sometimes sells for six figures, so that's hardly a valid way to appraise things. And what you call Ansel bashing - which does occur sometimes - might really be just a dose of reality that he was not in fact the apogee of technique even in his own day. But that is hardly a demerit to the esthetic result of salvaging that particular negative. I've seen a pathetic guy at work retouching out mosquito silhouettes in the sky portion of an AA Alaskan negative, or nearly going insane spotting out all the lint impressions from back when he was using his own sleeping bag as a film changing tent. That just adds to the lore.

But if you want to see an example of bottom scale pretension when it comes to both esthetics and technique, but which made it into collections anyway, Vaughn already posted an example. I can't think of anyone who was a worse printer than John Pfahl, or a more corny artsyfaker, except perhaps Divola of the same vintage. I have seen a worthy spoof print called Moonrise Over Rolls Royce, itself beautiful printed with a gleaming hood ornament in the foreground and brilliant moon against a deep black sky, and just as Zonie correct as anything Ansel himself ever taught, matching genre to genre. But moonrise over pie pan? - which looks more like an out of focus run-over soggy pizza with a bottle cap in the foreground, even in contact print size.

 

[Mark J]

I think the story of that shot is one we can all relate to. I've lost count of the number of significant images that were lost by a few seconds to failing light or clouds moving in.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Well, it was down to AA's work that nudged me from drawing/printmaking background to photography.

 

[Chuck1]

The fact that I can't draw nudged me towards photography,
I find moonrise over pie pan quite nice

 

[GregY]

My favourite Ansel Adams photo isn't even a landscape & neither is it LF. The sad thing about the internet is the ease with which people are free to gripe. I've seen a few prints of this images. Like him or not, Ansel Adams was a force in American photography.

 

[ericB&W]

Among a recent collection of exposure meters one of the first Weston’s.

Previous owner scratched filter factors. It’s interesting to see the 3x isn’t two whole stops. I adjusted the dial to fit the discussion of Ansel Adams’ story.

Instead of 64 emulsion speed I set 50 to fit the famous “exposure formula” Ansel used which agrees with ASA speed but not Weston speed. Explanation: Square root of speed as the f/stop (64 -> f/8), shutter speed as the reciprocal of candles per square foot (moon luminance 250 -> 1/250), emulsion speed as needed to fit the formula…after setting the other values the Weston speed shown is 50.

Without the meter in hand, Ansel went (in his mind) from the 250 on the outer scale to 65 to “place” the moon’s luminance on Zone VI

He then opened two stops to adjust for the filter and arrived at one second. But shown here is 3x mark on 65. The recommended exposure is 4/5 second.

I never personally increased exposure one and two-thirds stops for a 3x filter. I always gave two stops. I think Ansel Adams did too.

View attachment 352362

I was wondering which low EV sensitiveness reach that Weston .
Gossen multisix has -2 EV but some weeks ago tried to read the full moon landscape and was out of range, so exposed the moon one at 1/125 and anoter at 1/250 at 400 iso f.8,
Would buy a Gossen Profisix that reaches -4 Ev , i think it has one of the lowest EV available in the market .

 

[Bill Burk]

Around EV 6.5 the Weston has a dial mark for 1 candle per square foot.

In a full moon landscape hold a white card as if to take a reading on a gray card. That will give you 2 more EV.

 

[ic-racer]

My 'moonrise' picture. I used Nikon's matrix metering. Handheld somewhere around 1/15th of a second.

 

[Bill Burk]

Ah yes…that’s a full moon landscape showing the full moon. The white paper trick may help make a Gossen Cds meter suitable for metering a landscape illuminated by a full moon. Two different worlds.

And the early Weston meters won’t be able to read below about EV 4 (not suitable for moonlit scenes). But you could dial in 250 candles per square foot and open two stops to place it on Zone VII.

 

[baachitraka]

Has anyone figured out the luminance of a spy balloon over Hernandez NM yet?

 

[Mark J]

Just in case anyone is confused, the 'Moonrise Hernandez' shot is a daytime landscape, not a night scene.

 

[MarkS]

Indeed. And it's not a full moon in the photo either, it's one day before full. Technically, the full moon rises at sunset (give or take a few minutes). Which means that the foreground of a photograph made with a rising *full* moon will be no longer sunlit. Try it sometime!

 

[DREW WILEY]

More like an evening scene, but still enough daylight for a blue sky capable of being darkened with a contrast filter. I've encountered nearly identical lighting, and even cloud formations, in the desert West, replete with a full rising moon too. Exposure? - a piece of cake with a 1 degree spot meter.

 

[BrianShaw]

More like an evening scene, but still enough daylight for a blue sky capable of being darkened with a contrast filter. I've encountered nearly identical lighting, and even cloud formations, in the desert West, replete with a full rising moon too. Exposure? - a piece of cake with a 1 degree spot meter.

... but did you click the shutter?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Yep. Got my own classic. Sadly, the light was shifting too fast to set up and focus my view camera, so bagged it with my 6X7 instead, on tripod of course. By using Acros film, I still got a wonderfully detailed and luminous 16X20 print on MGWT. I was on the way to a backpacking trip in the Wind River range in Wyoming, crossing the long Great Salt Lake causeway in Utah. My hiking companion needed to pee, so we pulled off the highway at the next little turnout. I was looking at the wonderful lenticular clouds nearing sunset and how they reflected in the salt pools and salt itself, and thinking about a shot, when suddenly the full moon arose from behind those clouds, and I knew I would have to act fast. In fact, another 10 seconds of delay doing my setup and it would have been too late. No pie pan needed.