Ansco 130

removed account4 · Sep 11, 2004

dancqu said:
MikeK said:

My problem is with the raw glycin before it is put into solution. Wthin 4 weeks or so it has turned light brown and nowhere near as potent as fresh.

I've yet to order some glycin. Just how do you go about putting it
into solution? Dan

Click to expand...

hi dan

if you buy your glycin from the formulary - ask them to send you the freshest glycin they have. they make it every week, and will be happy to hold your order and send you stuff "just made".

good luck!
john

dancqu · Sep 12, 2004

Tom Hoskinson said:
Agfa 8 Film Developer

Deionized Water @ 125 Deg F 750ml
Sodium Sulfite 12.5 grams
Potassium Carbonate 25 grams
Glycin 2.0 grams
Deionized Water to 1000ml

With half the carbonate Agfa 8 could pass as a glycin Beutlers.
With glycin rather than metol in the Beutler formula, do you suppose
it would work? I think it might work as well as Agfa 8 with some
small adjustment in time. Dan

Tom Hoskinson · Sep 12, 2004

dancqu said:
Tom Hoskinson said:

Agfa 8 Film Developer

Deionized Water @ 125 Deg F 750ml
Sodium Sulfite 12.5 grams
Potassium Carbonate 25 grams
Glycin 2.0 grams
Deionized Water to 1000ml

With half the carbonate Agfa 8 could pass as a glycin Beutlers.
With glycin rather than metol in the Beutler formula, do you suppose
it would work? I think it might work as well as Agfa 8 with some
small adjustment in time. Dan

Click to expand...

In principle, yes.

Agfa 8 has a lot of similarity to Rodinal. To test your hypothesis, you could simply dilute the Agfa 8 stock solution.

I have used diluted (20:1) Ansco 130 for film development with excellent results.

BTW, both Agfa 8 and diluted Ansco 130 work well as "stand" developers.

dancqu · Sep 12, 2004

Tom Hoskinson said:
My Glycin is stored in amber glass containers which are
kept in a cabinet around 21 deg. C under low humidity conditions.

Tri-Ess Sciences is a good source of those bottles. I've scores of
them all equipped with the Polycone or Polyseal caps. I wonder how
many who work in the darkroom are as carefull as myself in the sealing
of their bottles. I take chemical longevity reports very guardedly.

As for glycin and for that matter phenidone, I wonder if those two in
particular are in themselfs unstable. There are many reports of the two
going bad in the bottle, so to speak.

If they are not unstable in themselfs, and they go bad within a few
years, it"s likely due to the glass bottle having a leaky cap. Dan

Tom Hoskinson · Sep 13, 2004

I bought a kilo of phenidone from Ilford in the early 1970's and the remainder is stilll fully active. I broke it up into 10 100 gram lots, bottled it and sold 7 bottles at the time to friends. I have kept the remainder cool, dry and stored in sealed amber glass containers.

Dry phenidone powder has a very long shelf life - many years. In water based solutions, the shelf life is limited. Water based solutions of phenidone can lose strength and fail without warning.

On the other hand, phenidone dissolved in glycerine, glycol or triethanolamine has a very long shelf life (as long as no water is added).

sanking · Sep 13, 2004

Tom Hoskinson said:
I bought a kilo of phenidone from Ilford in the early 1970's and the remainder is stilll fully active. I broke it up into 10 100 gram lots, bottled it and sold 7 bottles at the time to friends. I have kept the remainder cool, dry and stored in sealed amber glass containers.

Dry phenidone powder has a very long shelf life - many years. In water based solutions, the shelf life is limited. Water based solutions of phenidone can lose strength and fail without warning.

On the other hand, phenidone dissolved in glycerine, glycol or triethanolamine has a very long shelf life (as long as no water is added).

Tom,

I also have some very old phenidone that appears to be fully active.

On the other hand, I checked a small bottle of glycin from the same period and it was totally worthless. The white powder was very dark brown and had virtually no activity.

Does glycin dissolve easily in propylene glycol? If so this his might be a good way to store it.

Sandy

Tom Hoskinson · Sep 13, 2004

sanking said:
Tom,

I also have some very old phenidone that appears to be fully active.

On the other hand, I checked a small bottle of glycin from the same period and it was totally worthless. The white powder was very dark brown and had virtually no activity.

Does glycin dissolve easily in propylene glycol? If so this his might be a good way to store it.

Sandy

Sandy, my tests show that glycin is only slightly soluble in propylene glycol - even at elevated temperatures.

However, propylene glycol still might be a good way to keep premeasured amounts of glycin stable by preventing or retarding oxidation(even though only a small percentage dissolves in the PG). It is worth trying (before my current supply of glycin goes bad).

Glycin does dissolve in triethanolamine (TEA) at high temperatures. However, a TEA/glycin stock solution that I recently mixed (about 2 weeks ago) has changed color and separated into two distinct layers. I need to test the stuff and see if it is still active.

Silverpixels5 · Sep 13, 2004

You may also want to try a few of the ketones, aldehydes, or ethers. Something is bound to work. Have you tried acetone? Its highly volitile, but should be ok, as long as its left capped. I may try that this evening.

Tom Hoskinson · Sep 13, 2004

Silverpixels5 said:
You may also want to try a few of the ketones, aldehydes, or ethers. Something is bound to work. Have you tried acetone? Its highly volitile, but should be ok, as long as its left capped. I may try that this evening.

I've tried several alcohols, none worked. Haven't tried acetone.

titrisol · Sep 13, 2004

jckspc has the following in thir glossary:

jackspc.com said:
GLYCIN
CAS No 122-87-2
Other names: p-Hydroxyphenylaminoacetic acid; p-hydroxyanilinoacetic acid; para-oxyphenyl glycin; para-oxyphenyl glycocoll; and a number of trade names (Athenon, Glycin, Iconyl, and Monazol).
Description: The very small thin plates, occurring as a white powder, are almost insoluble in water, acetone, alcohol, benzenc, chloroform, ether, ethyl acetate, and glacial acetic acid. A 3% sodium sulfite solution at 60°F will dissolve almost 13% by weight of Glycin, thus the recommendation to add the sodium sulfite before the Glycin when making developer solutions.
Precautions: Avoid repeated or prolonged contact with this compound as kidney damage has been reported from persistent contact. Keep container closed and use with adequate ventilation. Do not breathe dust or swallow, Wear safety glasses or rubber gloves when handling and wash thoroughly after handling.
First Aid: In case of contact, flush the eyes or skin with plenty of water. If swallowed, induce vomiting by giving a glass of lukewarm salty water (2 teaspoonfuls of table salt to one glass of water). Call a physician.

So maybe you need to make a sulfite solution first to dilute glycin.

Tom Hoskinson · Sep 13, 2004

titrisol said:
jckspc has the following in thir glossary:

So maybe you need to make a sulfite solution first to dilute glycin.

As I stated previously, glycin is only slightly soluble in water.

Glycin is quite soluble in alkaline solutions. In order to dissolve glycin in water, you need to make the water alkaline. Sodium (or potassium) sulfite will perform this function, - so will carbonate and other alkalis.

However, if you are mixing a developer (dissolved in water) that uses both metol and glycin, the metol should be dissolved first. It is important to add no more than a pinch of sulfite before dissolving the metol. If there is too much sulfite, a large percentage of the metol may become insoluble. After the metol is dissolved, add the remaining sulfite, then add the glycin.

juan · Sep 13, 2004

Will refrigerating, or even freezing, the glycin help it keep longer?
juan

galyons · Sep 14, 2004

Juan,
Not very scientific, but I have found that keeping glycin in the freezer, at least double sealed, (jar in heavy sealed plastic freezer bag) significantly slows the steady progression from light tan to "not worth a s#!t" dark brown. I also found that displacing the atmosphere with nitrogen helps both freezer storage and room temp storage.

Since I typically buy in 100g lots from PF, I think the longest that I have stored & used a supply has been about 18 months. Always worked fine.

Cheers,
Geary

juan · Sep 19, 2004

I've found a possible substitution for water bath development with Ansco 130, at least with Azo. I call it minimal agitation - I agitate for the first 20-seconds the print is in the developer, then let it simply sit still in the developer for the remainder of the 2-minutes. My first couple of attempts seem to give about a grade 2 1/2 on Grade 3 paper.
juan

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 25, 2008

The Best of APUG

I was thinking about using Ansco 130 as a general purpose print developer in my new darkroom setup and came across this excellent thread from a few years back that I'd forgotten about. The Moderators and the Council have been talking about looking for good threads like this one on popular topics and making them easier to find by sticking them, and I think this one qualifies--

Ansco 130 is a popular developer either as a homebrew formula or as a kit from Photographer's Formulary. The formula is included in the thread. There's not too much off-topic meandering. There are detailed reports from longtime users, and there's an excellent test from Sandy King comparing Ansco 130 to amidol for Azo.

If anyone comes across other threads that have these qualities, please let the moderators know, and we'll take them into consideration. We don't want so many sticky threads that they get lost, but the real gems belong at the top of the list.

per volquartz · Aug 25, 2008

Use it 1:1 - or straight for extra contrast - or 1:2 - or with waterbath - or use it hot with cotton balls - - - develop from 2 - 10 minutes.

Its great!

Per Volquartz
Dead Link Removed

juan · Aug 26, 2008

Well, following up on my previous posts, I have kept glycin in my freezer for more than two years. I have successfully used the old glycin in a glycin only film developer, and the development was just as expected. I kept the glycin in the original container, and put that container in a common freezer bag.
juan

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 28, 2008

I just tried it for sheet film development. I tried what I had shot as test negatives:
1. Ilford Delta 100 4x5
2. Kodak TMax 400 4x5
3. Ilford FP4 5x7
4. Ilford HP5 5x7
The negs all look much better than I had hoped. If I have time tonight when I return home I will scan them to see if my first visual impression is right.
I diluted 1+4 and the full cycle was between 3 and 5 minutes. Next time I'll try 1+10 upon John Nanian's advice. Slow it down a bit, avoid uneven development.

- Thomas

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 29, 2008

So after using Ansco 130 for a few days, I'm really pleased. The prints look snappy, and there's something to be said for the convenience of a developer with a long tray life. It's great being able to pop into the darkroom and make a couple of prints without all the setup and mixing chemistry every time. I'll still use amidol for some things, but I think I'll be keeping a tray of Ansco 130 filled for general use.

Shawn Dougherty · Aug 29, 2008

David A. Goldfarb said:
The prints look snappy, and there's something to be said for the convenience of a developer with a long tray life. It's great being able to pop into the darkroom and make a couple of prints without all the setup and mixing chemistry every time. I'll still use amidol for some things, but I think I'll be keeping a tray of Ansco 130 filled for general use.

My thoughts exactly David. I've settled on Ansco 130 (PF130) for almost all of my prints. When I get a neg that's a little too hot for my Kentona in 130 I put it aside and, once I've accumulated a few, I mix up some Amidol and use it with a water bath. With that exception I believe Ansco to be every bit as good as Amidol. And as you stated, the convenience is hard to beat.

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 29, 2008

I too think the 130 is an awesome print developer. I have been printing with lith for a long time and decided to do some normal prints. I've had my 130 concentrate for a year now, and it's still good as new.
Funny bit is I thought my prints looked a hair dull compared to what I could muster before I got into lith printing. So I tried some Ilford Multigrade and realized that the developer was not the problem... The Ilford was excellent too, gave nice warm tones and I'll use it up.

Now with the outlook to use it as film developer too I'm really excited about it. Two more negs souped successfully in the 130 last night...

eclarke · Aug 29, 2008

Thomas Bertilsson said:
I just tried it for sheet film development. I tried what I had shot as test negatives:
1. Ilford Delta 100 4x5
2. Kodak TMax 400 4x5
3. Ilford FP4 5x7
4. Ilford HP5 5x7
The negs all look much better than I had hoped. If I have time tonight when I return home I will scan them to see if my first visual impression is right.
I diluted 1+4 and the full cycle was between 3 and 5 minutes. Next time I'll try 1+10 upon John Nanian's advice. Slow it down a bit, avoid uneven development.

- Thomas

Hi Thomas,
I am a glycin addict and have entered a 2 step program. My deviation on 130 is:

Water (125 degrees F) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 750 ml
Metol . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.2 g
Sodium Sulfite (Anhydrous) . . . . . . . . . 50 g
Hydroquinone . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 g
Sodium Carbonate (Anhydrous) . . . . . 80 g
1% benzotriazole solution. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 cc
Glycin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 g
Cold Water to make . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 liter

I use it at 1+3 72 deg.
Great with Ilford MG wonderful with WT

For Film:
GERMAIN'S FINEGRAIN

water, 125F/52C 700 cc
Metol 7 g
Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 70 g
Paraphenylene Diamine (base) 7 g
Glycin 7 g
Distilled cold water to make 1L

Use stock, try your D76 times...Evan Clarke

eclarke · Aug 29, 2008

eclarke said:
Hi Thomas,
I am a glycin addict and have entered a 2 step program. My deviation on 130 is:

Water (125 degrees F) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 750 ml
Metol . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.2 g
Sodium Sulfite (Anhydrous) . . . . . . . . . 50 g
Hydroquinone . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 g
Sodium Carbonate (Anhydrous) . . . . . 80 g
1% benzotriazole solution. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 cc
Glycin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 g
Cold Water to make . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 liter

I use it at 1+3 72 deg.
Great with Ilford MG wonderful with WT

For Film:
GERMAIN'S FINEGRAIN

water, 125F/52C 700 cc
Metol 7 g
Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 70 g
Paraphenylene Diamine (base) 7 g
Glycin 7 g
Distilled cold water to make 1L

Use stock, try your D76 times...Evan Clarke

OOPS the glycin before the BZT. I am happy, the glycin never lasts long enough to turn brown!!!

removed account4 · Aug 29, 2008

glad to hear you like it thomas

i usually use my 130 1: 5 or 1:6sh when i shuffle sheets of film ..
Tom Hoskinson has experimented with 130 a bit too, and he
suggested i dilute the developer 1:10 .. i am just spreading the joy

john

Thomas Bertilsson said:
I just tried it for sheet film development. I tried what I had shot as test negatives:
1. Ilford Delta 100 4x5
2. Kodak TMax 400 4x5
3. Ilford FP4 5x7
4. Ilford HP5 5x7
The negs all look much better than I had hoped. If I have time tonight when I return home I will scan them to see if my first visual impression is right.
I diluted 1+4 and the full cycle was between 3 and 5 minutes. Next time I'll try 1+10 upon John Nanian's advice. Slow it down a bit, avoid uneven development.

- Thomas

Dhar · Aug 29, 2008

I just recently tried 130 for stand development of some roll film -- worked great! Diluted 1:50, 1 hour stand with a single inversion at the 30-minute mark. Nice tonal range and no outrageous edge effects. Thumbs up.

-g.

Ansco 130

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