Another reason I’m moving to strictly Ilford.

[pentaxuser]

Do the interpretations in #51 and #52 based on the attachment, sum up the difference in mind-set between vertical and lateral thinking. The former being the kind of thinking that perhaps older generations were taught, involving strict guidelines and logic favoured by education authorities of certainly the 50 and 60s and what Edward de Bono termed lateral thinking which may be there in most if not all of us when we are kids but which was often "educated" out of us as we grew up?

de Bono gives a great example of this in one of his books. He presents primary school children and aeronautical engineers the same problem to solve involving the next generation of super airliners. Apparently in a jumbo jet the cockpit is already so far off the ground that landing the plane safely but manually is exceedingly difficult and anything bigger might be near impossible.

The engineers turn their attention to forms of complex mini radar to feedback to the pilot how close his wheels are to the ground. Quite complicated, expensive and subject to possible failure with dire consequences.

He gives the same problem to a bunch of kids. Many just sit there with no idea or come up with the usual fanciful notions that kids produce. One kid however starts to draw something and de Bono goes across to see what he is doing. He has crudely drawn the nose of the jet and underneath the nose there is a small bubble. When de Bono asks what the bubble is the kid says that is where the pilot sits so he is much closer to the ground now and can easily land by sight without any assistance

He then presents this to the engineers and from initial chuckles at a kid's efforts it quickly dawns on them that in fact there is no reason why the cockpit has to be on top.

I thought that a good example of how conventional education tends to eliminate lateral thinking from out of the minds of most of us and perhaps even more so from those who then become armies of skilled engineers

pentaxuser

 

[Don_ih]

there is no reason why the cockpit has to be on top

Well, there's plenty of reason if the landing gear fails.

 

[Truzi]

Even though it's fairly global, I think there are some countries where it is more well-known than others. Here in the U.S. I know a number of people over 60 who are accepting to the point it's not even an issue, yet they still don't know about the rainbow flag or Pride despite it being in the media often - they've seen the flag and heard "Gay Pride," but didn't know anything about it.

It seems odd, but I think it has to do with what sort of things people follow. Not everyone is "up" on current terms and concepts, even those in whatever community we want to discuss. I think this is a good example.

It’s not only you. I’ve been gay since 1980 and I still don’t understand all the terms that are used today. Once you get past the LGB, I’m lost.

There was the Queer movement in the 80s and 90s; it tried to take back the term "Queer." The idea was one word that would encompass all non-heterosexuals so we'd not need an ever-growing list of letters to describe the community ("cis" wasn't much of an identifier then).

Instead, the opposite happened, and Q is now part of LGB-etc. Go figure.

 

[Dali]

If someone could tell me what is the link between film business and sexual orientation...

 

[AgX]

There was the Queer movement in the 80s and 90s; it tried to take back the term "Queer." The idea was one word that would encompass all non-heterosexuals...

Last week for the very first time I heard the term "queer" mentioned in german public radio.
And I have not perceived back then such movement over here. Any emphasis, if at all, was at establishing being gay. Lesbians followed later. Being genderwise inbetween even is a topic just of the very last years.

In the 80's/90's already the german equivalent for "gay" was a word better not used in public. I even knew gay men who refused to use it.

So much about regional or national differences and people telling me, when admitting not to know some terms and icons, what I have to know.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I am in favor of gay pride. I use Kodak film. I use Ilford film. The OP is leaving more Kodak film available for me. Thank you.

 

[foc]

Photography and Photrio members are very tolerant of the following:

• Gay pride and the rainbow colours.
• Shooting at box speed.
• Pre wash.
• No stopbath.
• Squeegee use.
• Add your own here

 

[Vaughn]

If someone does not know about gay pride and the rainbow symbol, it might be for various reason. Mostly it would be that they do not care and are not affected by the need to support queer rights..thus they do not 'see' the rainbow flags flying, don't notice articles about pride parades, even when it is on all the international papers and news stations.


La, la, la, la -- no problem with gays here...la,la,la,la. I don't hear or see anything...

 

[Vaughn]

If someone could tell me what is the link between film business and sexual orientation...

Customers

 

[Dali]

Who cares about customers sexual orientation? Does it make them more valuable?

 

[ChristopherCoy]

There was the Queer movement in the 80s and 90s; it tried to take back the term "Queer." The idea was one word that would encompass all non-heterosexuals so we'd not need an ever-growing list of letters to describe the community ("cis" wasn't much of an identifier then).

Instead, the opposite happened, and Q is now part of LGB-etc. Go figure.

Yeah, the 90’s were my “day”. Lots of things happened, including my coming out in 1994. The things that confuse me is the Cis stuff, they/them pronoun stuff etc etc. Theres so many “sub-genres” if you will, that even for me it’s hard to keep up.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Who cares about customers sexual orientation? Does it make them more valuable?

In my case, it obviously does. It translates to profit for them.

 

[removedacct1]

If someone could tell me what is the link between film business and sexual orientation...

There is no direct connection. This is simply a business making a public declaration of their policy to embrace the diversity of human sexual identity and to support the full scope of their customer community.
The businesses that do this aren't necessarily doing it solely in an effort to advertise to a particular community to boost sales, etc. There are people at Ilford/Harman who made a conscious decision to make this declaration, and offer a gesture of support to what has traditionally been a persecuted demographic. In a world where people can still be murdered for their differences, all change towards a more inclusive society is a change for the better.

Businesses that declare their support of inclusiveness stand out to me as there are plenty of companies on the opposite end of the spectrum that willfully embrace bigotry and prejudice as policy. Chick-Fil-A has been an excellent example of the latter type. (Though I gather there have been attitude changes at that company in recent times) My take is that if a company chooses NOT to offer a gesture of support during a Pride event, its worth digging to find out what their policy is about LGBTQ+ community.

I'd rather be pleased that a company like Ilford is making it policy to be supportive of positive change in social attitude, than be cynical about their intent.

 

[BrianShaw]

Who cares about customers sexual orientation? Does it make them more valuable?

... or more numerous or more profit producing?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Who cares about customers sexual orientation? Does it make them more valuable?

Everyone but you.

 

[Dali]

There is no direct connection. This is simply a business making a public declaration of their policy to embrace the diversity of human sexual identity and to support the full scope of their customer community.

I rather think that it is about a facade opportunism. Today, it is about the LGBT community, tomorrow it will be towards Blacks or Asians or women or dwarves or ... In short, it is a way of showing that one goes in the direction the wind blows.

 

[removedacct1]

I rather think that it is about a facade opportunism. Today, it is about the LGBT community, tomorrow it will be towards Blacks or Asians or women or dwarves or ... In short, it is a way of showing that one goes in the direction the wind blows.

And there’s that cynicism I mentioned.

 

[mshchem]

Eastman Kodak wouldn't last long in Hollywood if they haters. Kodak Alaris probably doesn't have anyone left to make a posting

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Kodak Alaris probably doesn't have anyone left to make a posting

Another reason I’m moving to Ilford.

Ilford is the person in the bar that you meet who may have a past, but has dealt with their baggage, and has become a respectable member of society.

Kodak is the person whom you meet in the bar that has a past.... but still has kids with four different people, doesn’t have a job, drinks too much, and always has some kind of drama going on.

 

[Truzi]

Last week for the very first time I heard the term "queer" mentioned in german public radio.
And I have not perceived back then such movement over here. Any emphasis, if at all, was at establishing being gay. Lesbians followed later. Being inbetween even is a topic just of the very last years.

In the 80's/90's already the german equivalent for "gay" was a word better not used in public. I even knew gay men who refused to use it.

So much about regional or national differences and people telling me, when admitting not to know some terms and icons, what I have to know.

It wasn't a "movement" per se, just an organized attempt to make the term positive and have it cover everyone instead of continuously adding letters.
It may have been a U.S. thing, or English-speaking-world thing; plus it failed to become the inclusive term (instead becoming itself an added letter). It took a while to gain some positive connotation as well. Queer had been a quite the pejorative. It wasn't the worst one, but it's something many generations still avoid calling themselves - it was more negative than simply "gay" (which was still negative) or "homosexual" (the least negative).

If someone could tell me what is the link between film business and sexual orientation...

A film business issued a statement showing support of non-heterosexuals during Pride month. Not that difficult to fathom.

 

[MattKing]

I rather think that it is about a facade opportunism. Today, it is about the LGBT community, tomorrow it will be towards Blacks or Asians or women or dwarves or ... In short, it is a way of showing that one goes in the direction the wind blows.

Or possibly it is an attempt by Harman to communicate the fact that the people who make up the business care about more things than just the stuff they make and sell.
Or that they care about what their customers care about.
Or that they care about what their employees care about.
Or that they care about what their suppliers/vendors care about.
They could be doing it for purely profit-oriented reasons.
Or they could be doing it for a mixture of a bunch of different reasons, not all of which are strictly profit oriented.
If you are trying to figure out what the reasons are, it is probably best to consider this in the context of all the rest of the things that a business does. Businesses do choose values - sometimes referred to as "culture".
Thinking back a very long time to my youth, I remember the prominently displayed sign in my Dad's workplace.
Paraphrasing, because the memory is 50 or so years old"
"The customers come first, the employees come next, and the shareholders come after that"
It was a quote from George Eastman, and as I understand it it was displayed at most if not all Eastman Kodak or Kodak subsidiary workplaces. Essentially, it was an expression of business culture, and for a very long time it resulted in an incredibly loyal employee workforce, as well as very loyal customers. Not to mention very, very happy shareholders.
Paying attention to culture - both within and without a business - can be a really positive thing.

 

[MattKing]

The current Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris people I have had contact with are all from before the bankruptcy, and remain incredibly loyal.

 

[pbromaghin]

Another reason I’m moving to Ilford.

Ilford is the person in the bar that you meet who may have a past, but has dealt with their baggage, and has become a respectable member of society.

Kodak is the person whom you meet in the bar that has a past.... but still has kids with four different people, doesn’t have a job, drinks too much, and always has some kind of drama going on.

That would make a great sig.

 

[mshchem]

Another reason I’m moving to Ilford.

Ilford is the person in the bar that you meet who may have a past, but has dealt with their baggage, and has become a respectable member of society.

Kodak is the person whom you meet in the bar that has a past.... but still has kids with four different people, doesn’t have a job, drinks too much, and always has some kind of drama going on.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Love Ilford films.