Another reason I’m moving to strictly Ilford.

AgX · Jun 23, 2021

To rehabilitate myself against accusations of what I here in Germany should know and did not, respectively stated that it is not known:

-) 3 days ago for the first time I came across in german public media the new meaning of the rainbowflag being addressed, even just on our topic. It was hinted at the new fenomenon this June that german manufacturers/businesses added a rainbow to their logos in social media. Also the term LGBT was explained. Further that social scientists follow this and already uttered critique on it. The use of the rainbow likely being white-washing or rather pink-washing, a new term too... As proof it was referred to that in cases the use of the rainbow was applied selectively by same manufacturer only to markets where "it does not hurt".

-) Today the new meaning of the rainbow flag is THE topic in public media here. I can't even say how often I heard or read it just this morning.
So that new meaning, and the terms LGBT, month of June, Pride, have repeatedly been explained, stated as being new to most. Again being a hypocrite is linked to the use of the rainbow.

(Reason is a case on which the discussion evolved whether the use of the rainbow is or can be a political statement or not, and whether it should be used when it could be read as political statement.)

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jun 23, 2021

In Montréal, the rainbow flag colours are built in the edifice of the Beaudry metro station, near downtown, as it's in the gay village neighbourhood. Flags abound.

The Ilford ad was quite obvious to me, but then gay pride has been constitutive of city life for many decades, and the province of Québec has been among the first (with Ontario and BC) to recognize same-sex marriage.

Meanwhile, in other parts of the world, it's still a criminal act, and can get you murdered or even state-sanctioned executed.

Vaughn · Jun 23, 2021

AgX said:
...(Reason is a case on which the discussion evolved whether the use of the rainbow is or can be a political statement or not, and whether it should be used when it could be read as political statement.)

That is like asking if reconizing the Holocaust is a political act.

AgX · Jun 23, 2021

Well, that is the discussion going on here today, and there are valid arguments behind it. But likely you do not know the very case and it is of no interest here, I just referred to it to make clear why a topic and unknown icon and terms have become matter of national interest from one day to the other.

removedacct1 · Jun 23, 2021

Vaughn said:
That is like asking if reconizing the Holocaust is a political act.

Agreed.
Why AgX feels the need to drone on about his country's recognition of LGBTQ+ iconography is difficult to comprehend. AgX, you made your point long ago. We get it.

AgX · Jun 23, 2021

Well, I did not get the impression that I got recognition here in this thread (I had though quite some interesting private conversations).

Furthermore I wanted to indicate that there has been a sudden change going on.

And I hinted at ongoing discussions just on this Ilford issue, where quite different stands were taken than here. But I admit the seeing the glass half empty and looking for the negative may be a very german character trait. But I do not see why you should not be confronted with that now and then, we few Europeans and others here are constantly confronted with the american view on issues.

BrianShaw · Jun 23, 2021

Isn't this thread about Ilford and their advertising and/or support of a specific social cause rather than Germany (or America) and their view on issues? Why do either side need to feel, experience, or exhibit 'confrontationalism"?

Vaughn · Jun 23, 2021

Actually, Brian, I see parallels between German and American reaction to gay pride. Especially in the ability of its citizens to see only what they wish to see...which has been my point all along.

And no, this is not 'just' a thread of Ilford and their advertised support. What an interesting concept. And certainly the question of the reconition of a world-wide, commonly use symbol that has been in existence for many decades ties in directly with Ilford's use of that symbol.

BrianShaw · Jun 23, 2021

What if I rephrased it…

Isn't this thread supposed to about Ilford and their advertising and/or support of a specific social cause rather than Germany (or America) and their view on issues?

But I understand your comment on the tie-in, Vaughn. It is interesting to learn how isolated from international trends and/or repressive Germany is. Also, how much they may loathe Americans. I had no idea. I visited there for a week many years ago and thought they were very accommodating. Maybe Bavaria is different from the rest of Germany… or perhaps they were just being polite. I saw much more intolerance of Americans or anything “different” in England. But none of that is pertinent to photography.

This is a photo forum, after all.

MattKing · Jun 23, 2021

I think it is relevant to talk about how different visual symbols are construed or understood in different parts of the world.
As you say, this is a photo forum after all.

BrianShaw · Jun 23, 2021

That’s a graphic arts symbol… not photography.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jun 23, 2021

Meanwhile, I still find it clever that Ilford noticed that its product line had all the necessary colours to weave together a rainbow flag. I myself never noticed before!

BrianShaw · Jun 23, 2021

It really was great graphic arts!

Vaughn · Jun 23, 2021

BrianShaw said:
... Maybe Bavaria is different from the rest of Germany…

So I have been told.

mark · Jun 23, 2021

Good job Illford

Kilgallb · May 23, 2022

pentaxuser said:
It puzzled me too and that's why I keep on "harping on" about this Ilford being nothing like the former Ilford that we associate with Simon Galley It has moved on and is aimed at a different age group and pysche compared to most of us here on Photrio.

pentaxuser

And we will all be dead in twenty but the twenty somethings will be at the peak of their careers.

it is a good thing that they do this.

benjiboy · May 24, 2022

MatthewDunn said:
This thread is just showing (for the 10000000000th time) that old white men don't really know or recognize (let alone) understand the world around them - your ignorance has nothing to do with whether the flag is an "internet fad" or not.

If your theory is true, why are the majority of politicians, and the judiciary " old white men"?.

pentaxuser · May 24, 2022

This old white man just looked at this thread again as your post #25, Matthew, brought it back to the today's posts list. When I see something but don't instantly look at its original date my brain assumes this is a new thread. So I looked at the opening post again and still couldn't work out the reason for Christopher supporting Ilford

I say this with no pride nor with any particular shame at not recognising the meaning of the colours.

pentaxuser- old white man who is sorry that he can do nothing about being white or old

Vaughn · May 24, 2022

benjiboy said:
If your theory is true, why are the majority of politicians, and the judiciary " old white men"?.

That is how we have rigged the game...

MattKing · May 24, 2022

With respect to the judiciary, there is a lag time involved up here in Canada.
Judges tend to get appointed after they have been lawyers for a long time.
When I started practising, most of the old lawyers were male (and predominantly white).
But the new lawyers at that time were much more likely not to be male, and not white.
I'm of the age right now where many of the judges are around my vintage, and there are many more non-males and non-whites on the various levels of the bench.
There are still some historical factors that skew the numbers, but they are evolving toward equality and diversity.

gone · May 24, 2022

benjiboy said:
If your theory is true, why are the majority of politicians, and the judiciary " old white men"?.

That's a very good question, and a relevant one these days. I can only speak to the politics in the US and South America, where I worked for everyone from C.I.S.P.E.S. (the committee in solidarity w/ the People of El Salvador), to Democratic governor and senatorial candidates, Common Cause in Wash D.C., etc.

It comes down to who has the largest population base, and who has the most active voters in their base. Old white men and women generally get elected by old white men and women voters. Old white jurors get nominated to their posts by old white office holders. If there are no term limits for the offices, as so often happens in the US, the incumbents are almost impossible to get out of there. At this new stage, it's solely about money, and incumbents have the fast track on that.

The population bases are always changing, which causes the incumbent office holders to legally or illegally re figure their voting precincts to insure that they still have a majority base. This has been going on for eons, it's just how it goes.

Two23 · May 24, 2022

Companies that think I care about their political views are a total turn off for me no matter they are. I need some more 120 ISO and am buying Foma this batch.

Kent in SD

Two23 · May 24, 2022

MatthewDunn said:
This thread is just showing (for the 10000000000th time) that old white men don't really know or recognize (let alone) understand the world around them - your ignorance has nothing to do with whether the flag is an "internet fad" or not.

Has more to do with being preached at by fanatics, I think.

Kodachromeguy · May 25, 2022

summicron1 said:
Our children are growing up in a world where gay pride will be taken for granted. This is a world where young people will see a lot of things about life differently that us old farts do -- my grandchildren educate me daily on a lot of things.

So it is good for Ilford to celebrate gay pride for what it means but it is also smart marketing -- the "traditional" market -- folks like me -- are dying off, the future is with the young and they have my deepest apologies for the mess we're leaving them.

Thank you for an intelligent and well-written response. So some people here claim they will not buy film from a company that wants to respect the rights of a social group that was marginalized and discriminated against for ~~decades~~ centuries? Did they consider if that is really how they want to present themselves to other Photrio participants?

Donald Qualls · May 25, 2022

Kodachromeguy said:
marginalized and discriminated against for centuries

Fixed that for you.

Another reason I’m moving to strictly Ilford.

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Another reason I’m moving to strictly Ilford.

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