Another reason I’m moving to strictly Ilford.

MattKing said:

Or possibly it is an attempt by Harman to communicate the fact that the people who make up the business care about more things than just the stuff they make and sell.
Or that they care about what their customers care about.
Or that they care about what their employees care about.
Or that they care about what their suppliers/vendors care about.
Paying attention to culture - both within and without a business - can be a really positive thing.

Click to expand...

This summarizes it nicely. Thanks.

AgX said:

Wikipedia referring to that flag, does not mean that it is used or known all over the world. Over here it is even used in a different meaning.

You are looking at things from a US perspective, as most english Wikipedia articles are written from this perspective too, as most Photrio is.

Click to expand...

Just as an FYI - this is Mexico City's gay neighborhood, Zona Rosa, with pedestrian crossings painted for Gay Pride:


I don't have pictures uploaded from Asia that I've taken myself, but I can guarantee you that the Rainbow Flag is very much recognized there as well... do a Google Image search on "Gay Pride Taiwan" or "Gay Pride Bangkok". Trust me, it is EVERYWHERE.
Oh, here's one from Changsha, China that I found on the NBC News website:

paulbarden said:

And there’s that cynicism I mentioned.

Click to expand...

Where you see cynism, I see reality. Obviously, we live in a different world.

Good for you.

MattKing said:

Or possibly it is an attempt by Harman to communicate the fact that the people who make up the business care about more things than just the stuff they make and sell.
Or that they care about what their customers care about.
Or that they care about what their employees care about.
Or that they care about what their suppliers/vendors care about.
They could be doing it for purely profit-oriented reasons.
Or they could be doing it for a mixture of a bunch of different reasons, not all of which are strictly profit oriented.
If you are trying to figure out what the reasons are, it is probably best to consider this in the context of all the rest of the things that a business does. Businesses do choose values - sometimes referred to as "culture".
Thinking back a very long time to my youth, I remember the prominently displayed sign in my Dad's workplace.
Paraphrasing, because the memory is 50 or so years old"
"The customers come first, the employees come next, and the shareholders come after that"
It was a quote from George Eastman, and as I understand it it was displayed at most if not all Eastman Kodak or Kodak subsidiary workplaces. Essentially, it was an expression of business culture, and for a very long time it resulted in an incredibly loyal employee workforce, as well as very loyal customers. Not to mention very, very happy shareholders.
Paying attention to culture - both within and without a business - can be a really positive thing.

Click to expand...

Wrong. For a company money comes first. Once you remove all the fairy dust, things are pretty simple.

TheFlyingCamera said:

Just as an FYI - this is Mexico City's gay neighborhood, Zona Rosa, with pedestrian crossings painted for Gay Pride:


I don't have pictures uploaded from Asia that I've taken myself, but I can guarantee you that the Rainbow Flag is very much recognized there as well... do a Google Image search on "Gay Pride Taiwan" or "Gay Pride Bangkok". Trust me, it is EVERYWHERE.
Oh, here's one from Changsha, China that I found on the NBC News website:

Click to expand...

Thank you for posting the one in China. I will happily show my Chinese student who said to me, there are no gay people in China.

Dali said:

Wrong. For a company money comes first. Once you remove all the fairy dust, things are pretty simple.

Click to expand...

"fairy" dust?

Dali said:

Wrong. For a company money comes first. Once you remove all the fairy dust, things are pretty simple.

Click to expand...

LOL.. that’s true from my perspective too... and I worked for a not-for-profit corporation!

Yes, Ilford was thinking marketing for sure, but so what?

Even if the money comes first, there are those who look in the long term, and those who look in the short term.
Interestingly enough, there appears to be cultural issues even there.
Apparently, the venture capital corporation that owns Harman has a portfolio consisting mainly of businesses that they have bought and held for a significant period of time, with an eye toward long term returns and growth, and apparently that in their environment, there are many other venture capitalists who take similar approaches.
At the risk of getting into politics, even venture capital corporations deal with cultural factors, such as the legislative, tax and regulatory environments that influence values.
In today's world, George Eastman's credo might actually be not in accordance with the law with respect to management's obligations.

It doesn't matter that it is fiscally prudent to make such a post. Whatever they stand to gain by doing so, they don't really stand to lose by not doing so. They're playing to their audience. There is, however, the possibility of losing customers because of such a post. So, you can say there's more risk than reward involved for them.
Chances are, they wish to align themselves with ideologies that are familiar to the younger generation. Older people seem disinclined to accept all the distinctions made by the labelling of the various ways in which someone can be "alternative" (for want of a better general word). But younger people are growing up with these distinctions embedded within the language, which marks these variations as realities for them. In other words, younger people care about things that older people can't easily recognize.
Especially curmudgeonly guys named SilverY.

Never heard of the term "curmudgeonly", I hope I find it my dictionary....

But yes, from the start on I hinted at my idea that my not understanding that Ilford ad may be an age issue. But again I can only repeat myself that you got not the slightest idea of german society, which does not keep you from making accusations on me.
And yes, "Chances are, they wish to align themselves with ideologies that are familiar to the younger generation" is convincing to me.

AgX said:

Never heard of the term "curmudgeonly", I hope I find it my dictionary....

Click to expand...

My goodness... are you getting an education today! Soon you’ll qualify to be a USmerican.

I should have put a grinning emoji after my last statement.
Is German society fundamentally different from Canadian society? Is it alien to the point of incomprehensibility? Should I therefore respect it? Should a heterosexual member of German society therefore respect the symbols and ideas of an international community of homosexuals, bisexuals, trans, etc.?

I don’t sense any disrespect... from anyone (yet). Not shouting gay pride from the rafters, if not a part of that community, is okay.

Dali said:

Wrong. For a company money comes first. Once you remove all the fairy dust, things are pretty simple.

Click to expand...

#truecolors

BrianShaw said:

Oh no... another term to learn. Never heard of that word before. Don’t explain, though... I’ll as Wikipedia.

Click to expand...

VERY old term....in fact Latin. Used in chemistry for many years to designate cis or trans isomers of the same chemical.

In gender terms "cis" simply means "not trans".

ChristopherCoy said:

It’s not only you. I’ve been gay since 1980 and I still don’t understand all the terms that are used today. Once you get past the LGB, I’m lost.

Click to expand...

I guess it takes a straight (ish) to explan?

LGBTQIA+

Lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, intersex, asexual and the + is to be inclusive of other identities.

Though I now prefer GSRD as a more all-encompassing term. Gender, sexuality and relationship diverse. Covers anyone who has an unconventional understanding of their gender, sexuality or engages in unconventional relationship styles.

I don't fall in the LGBTQIA+ spectrum but I do come under the R of GSRD

Gee whiz... I feel so very traditional and old-fashioned...

BrianShaw said:

Gee whiz... I feel so very traditional and old-fashioned...

Click to expand...

Going off-topic but it seems that what is happening is that as Western societies generally become more accepting of "queer" people, different facets of "queerness" are becoming more visible. If we accept that something over 5% of people are gay, that's a minority but it's a lot of people. Chances are a co-worker, family member, someone on the bus, someone in the shop is gay. So it was always going to be gay people who first raised their heads above the parapet and asked to be treated like human beings. And so gay pride was born...gay rights....and so on. Indeed at first the lesbians weren't included. Then the bisexual people wanted reasonable treatment by society. Then trans people and so on.

What's happened is that as these characteristics have become more widely accepted, people have discovered more nuances. Chances are 99% of us are fine with the gender we were given at birth. Something under 1% are seriously not OK with it to the extent that it causes dysphoria and depression. But there is likely to be a greater number of people who thought they were fine with their gender identity until further options were revealed. A lot of people who now feel they are non-binary always felt "not quite right" as their assigned gender but not sufficiently "wrong" to want to change it. But the only options they knew about were male and female.

All this leads to an ever increasing number of letters in the acronym. When I went to uni we had LAGS - the lesbian and gay society. It wasn't especially welcoming of bi people. Pansexual wasn't a term in use. Trans people had their own group. But these disparate groups all sought the same rights, the same right to be treated with tolerance and respect by wider society...the right to exist without being persecuted for something integral to their being. So the acronym grew and grew...and it is unwieldy. Hence some people now preferring GSRD - that also takes in people with non-traditional relationship styles who now seek the same rights to not be persecuted.

So what I see, as someone who isn't especially queer and who holds most of the privilege cards in my society....is Ilford and other companies simply saying "we support treating harmless humans like they're humans". Quite a radical idea to some. The cynics think the message is "buy from us". Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Agulliver said:

I guess it takes a straight (ish) to explan?

LGBTQIA+

Lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, intersex, asexual and the + is to be inclusive of other identities.

Though I now prefer GSRD as a more all-encompassing term. Gender, sexuality and relationship diverse. Covers anyone who has an unconventional understanding of their gender, sexuality or engages in unconventional relationship styles.

I don't fall in the LGBTQIA+ spectrum but I do come under the R of GSRD

Click to expand...

I think I like you. You’re my new best friend. Call me every five minutes.

BrianShaw said:

Gee whiz... I feel so very traditional and old-fashioned...

Click to expand...

...except for that ball gag in your nightstand.

ChristopherCoy said:

...except for that ball gag in your nightstand.

Click to expand...

It keeps my snoring under control. Purely medical

In other news, I can't find any sign Kodak or Foma or Adox acknowledge Pride Month. Ilford seems to be alone.
Also, it's not cynicism to think that there is a sound business reason to post support of this kind - it's a realistic view. Companies always need to watch what they say and do. And we are currently living in a time of heightened scrutiny. They definitely considered this carefully.

Don Heisz said:

In other news, I can't find any sign Kodak or Foma or Adox acknowledge Pride Month. Ilford seems to be alone.
Also, it's not cynicism to think that there is a sound business reason to post support of this kind - it's a realistic view. Companies always need to watch what they say and do. And we are currently living in a time of heightened scrutiny. They definitely considered this carefully.

Click to expand...

+1.