An investigation of the film in the new Ilfocolor Disposable cameras

[Huss]

This random Ilfocolor thread takes me to a recent conversation about expired film. There's a shop in Budapest specialising in camera repair and expired films from way back. Therefore, the guy is a pro developing all sorts of old emulsions, like this Ilfocolor 100, which, of course is Ferrania. He told me the following:

Ilfocolor 100 after all these years is still decent shot at 100.
Fuji is way worse, but an expired Superia 400 at 50 will be okay.
Kodak is a no-no. Kodak is so bad when expired, it doesn't even deserve a cheap C41 process.

Of course, that's his experience, probably fortified by a bad roll. Many people shoot expired Kodak negatives without much trouble. However, this shop stocks films that are 20+ years past due date, so I guess the takeaway is that ancient Ferrania and Agfa emulsions are more stable than Fuji, and much more stable than Kodak stocks.

I can also add that I recently shot both very old Kodak UC100 with a compact and flash during a party, and 160VC in 120 format with my Bronica. Both were fine.

Both your and my experiences contradict the shop's.


In my experience heat kills film. Age takes a much much much longer time. Of course you never know how a film has been stored unless you were the one that bought it at the beginning. But if it was subject to excessive heat, no manner of exposure compensation will save it.

 

[Ten301]

I’ve got a film freezer full of about 350 rolls of 35mm Agfa, Ferrania, Fuji, Konica, Kodak and others from the past 25-30 years. Been stored the entire time since bought fresh, well before expiration date, at -15F unopened in original packaging inside freezer bags with silica gel. Most of the films are lower ISO (below 200) color films which have have long since been discontinued.

Over the years, there were some of all brands that I’ve left out of the freezer for various reason: I planned to use but didn’t, just never put them in the freezer in the first place, never bothered out of sheer laziness…whatever. All were bought fresh and subjected to the same conditions, more or less, which were not extreme: room temperature, still sealed inside plastic tub, usually in a desk drawer, etc. Here’s my experience. Please keep in mind this is not scientific, only my personal observations:

Konica: The worst keeping quality by far. The films quickly deteriorate to a strong magenta cast soon after expiration.

Kodak: Better than Konica, but some films, not by much. Kodak’s 400 ISO and above emulsions seem very sensitive to gamma radiation, more so than those of Fuji, quickly showing increased grain and loss of d-max.

Agfa (original rhombus Agfa): Real Agfa, not the AgfaPhoto stuff. Hardy. Maybe a bit of exposure compensation needed and a very slight tinge of magenta may creep in years past expiration.

Fuji: Pretty tough stuff. Even sitting around 5-10 years past expiration, with a little exposure compensation you can get normal results with spot on colors.

Ferrania: Bulletproof. For a budget film, I don’t know what secret the science guys at Ferrania knew that the big guys didn’t, but 10 and even 15 years out past expiration, stored at room temperature, with no compensation, Ferrania FG 100 shoots as new.

 

[Roger Cole]

I’ve got a film freezer full of about 350 rolls of 35mm Agfa, Ferrania, Fuji, Konica, Kodak and others from the past 25-30 years. Been stored the entire time since bought fresh, well before expiration date, at -15F unopened in original packaging inside freezer bags with silica gel. Most of the films are lower ISO (below 200) color films which have have long since been discontinued.

Over the years, there were some of all brands that I’ve left out of the freezer for various reason: I planned to use but didn’t, just never put them in the freezer in the first place, never bothered out of sheer laziness…whatever. All were bought fresh and subjected to the same conditions, more or less, which were not extreme: room temperature, still sealed inside plastic tub, usually in a desk drawer, etc. Here’s my experience. Please keep in mind this is not scientific, only my personal observations:

Konica: The worst keeping quality by far. The films quickly deteriorate to a strong magenta cast soon after expiration.

Kodak: Better than Konica, but some films, not by much. Kodak’s 400 ISO and above emulsions seem very sensitive to gamma radiation, more so than those of Fuji, quickly showing increased grain and loss of d-max.

Agfa (original rhombus Agfa): Real Agfa, not the AgfaPhoto stuff. Hardy. Maybe a bit of exposure compensation needed and a very slight tinge of magenta may creep in years past expiration.

Fuji: Pretty tough stuff. Even sitting around 5-10 years past expiration, with a little exposure compensation you can get normal results with spot on colors.

Ferrania: Bulletproof. For a budget film, I don’t know what secret the science guys at Ferrania knew that the big guys didn’t, but 10 and even 15 years out past expiration, stored at room temperature, with no compensation, Ferrania FG 100 shoots as new.

Are those observations relevant to the accidentally not-frozen film, or the frozen film? I'm unsure reading this.

 

[AgX]

Agfa (original rhombus Agfa): Real Agfa, not the AgfaPhoto stuff. Hardy. Maybe a bit of exposure compensation needed and a very slight tinge of magenta may creep in years past expiration.

At least the last batches of Agfachrome (Aviphot Chrome) kept not well. We had, not fruitful, discussion on this. But the latest reply on this matter hinted at the latent-image keeping having been strongly affected.

 

[Ten301]

Are those observations relevant to the accidentally not-frozen film, or the frozen film? I'm unsure reading this.

What I was (rather sloppily) attempting to put into context was how these various rolls managed to languish for years in desk drawers in my office. I have hobbies, two in particular, and have for years. Although an amateur, one is photography (the cameras are another story!), the other is a particular theme of board game. All very neat, preserved and stored for use. Hobbies with a mix of OCD. Whatever, we all have our very own weirdness.

I should have clarified in my OP: while the film in my freezer is approximately 75% C41 25% E6, I was referring to unfrozen, left out color negative film, 100/200 ISO, along with additional 400 ISO Kodak.

 

[Fortepun]

I’ve got a film freezer full of about 350 rolls of 35mm Agfa, Ferrania, Fuji, Konica, Kodak and others from the past 25-30 years. Been stored the entire time since bought fresh, well before expiration date, at -15F unopened in original packaging inside freezer bags with silica gel. Most of the films are lower ISO (below 200) color films which have have long since been discontinued.

Over the years, there were some of all brands that I’ve left out of the freezer for various reason: I planned to use but didn’t, just never put them in the freezer in the first place, never bothered out of sheer laziness…whatever. All were bought fresh and subjected to the same conditions, more or less, which were not extreme: room temperature, still sealed inside plastic tub, usually in a desk drawer, etc. Here’s my experience. Please keep in mind this is not scientific, only my personal observations:

Konica: The worst keeping quality by far. The films quickly deteriorate to a strong magenta cast soon after expiration.

Kodak: Better than Konica, but some films, not by much. Kodak’s 400 ISO and above emulsions seem very sensitive to gamma radiation, more so than those of Fuji, quickly showing increased grain and loss of d-max.

Agfa (original rhombus Agfa): Real Agfa, not the AgfaPhoto stuff. Hardy. Maybe a bit of exposure compensation needed and a very slight tinge of magenta may creep in years past expiration.

Fuji: Pretty tough stuff. Even sitting around 5-10 years past expiration, with a little exposure compensation you can get normal results with spot on colors.

Ferrania: Bulletproof. For a budget film, I don’t know what secret the science guys at Ferrania knew that the big guys didn’t, but 10 and even 15 years out past expiration, stored at room temperature, with no compensation, Ferrania FG 100 shoots as new.

This is very interesting, thank you!

 

[Roger Cole]

What I was (rather sloppily) attempting to put into context was how these various rolls managed to languish for years in desk drawers in my office. I have hobbies, two in particular, and have for years. Although an amateur, one is photography (the cameras are another story!), the other is a particular theme of board game. All very neat, preserved and stored for use. Hobbies with a mix of OCD. Whatever, we all have our very own weirdness.

I should have clarified in my OP: while the film in my freezer is approximately 75% C41 25% E6, I was referring to unfrozen, left out color negative film, 100/200 ISO, along with additional 400 ISO Kodak.

Got it, thanks. I was hoping the film I stashed in my fridge around 2012 or so that has been there ever since would be better than some of what you indicated (all Kodak for the C41, some Provia 400X that I stocked up on when it was discontinued that's been frozen, not just refrigerated.)

 

[removedacct2]

I find this thread in a search about a 35mm colour film : "Ilford Ilfocolor Retro 400", after I was pointed to couple french stores like this one:
Ilford Ilfocolor 400 Vintagetone 135x24 Exp

colour film manufacturing died in Europe some years ago but there was a small relaunch in Wolfen by Orwo: the NC500 and NC400.
Also Orwo established partnership with a chinese company in Shanghaï.
Of course the combo "german company" + "China" makes think of Lucky.
Ilford is since long some kind of german (Ilford etc Gmbh) and japanese business, derivated from acquisitions/mergers of the former CIBA swiss branch of old Ilford with couple german companies specialized in the "imaging" products (printing papers), the japanese investor is the photochemicals business: Chugaï, that besides chemicals also does in the "imaging" with printing stuff, so they have an Ilford page for consumer articles: http://www.chugai-photo.co.jp/personal/index.html
Otherwise, the combo "german company" + "Japan" makes think of Fuji.

Moreover, there is the rumour: Ilfocolor retro 400 = Lomography Metropolis, itself packaged in Shanghaï....
Plenty of hypothesis, but if these corporate people running Ilford, Orwo, and Lomography would be so nice to tell what they do....
At least there are still some souls in Germany and possibly Japan, wanting to do business in the film niche.

Orwo NC500 and Lomography Metropolis sell for similar price, cheaper than Ektar but more expensive than Gold, C200, Ultramax, Lomography 100.

And there's still Agfa Vista 400, no longer sold in canisters by themselves, but it's inside the disposable camera. Buy one and get the canister inside, 27 exposures. And what film is that? from Agfa-Gevaert NV? Fuji?




it's funny that it's now easier to get a roll of colour film by dismantling a one-time camera and not possible to just buy the roll itself.