Alternative E-6

[cinejerk]

where the heck do you get ethylene diamine? or for that matter ethylene diamine sulphate?

 

[epatsellis]

Ethylene Diamine 'R Us, of course....

 

[cinejerk]

Uh Huh !! Just another in a long line of unobtanium's !!!!

 

[Photo Engineer]

Kodak gives the formulas for VNF-1 on its web site and lists suppliers of all chemicals.

PE

 

[Rudeofus]

Uh Huh !! Just another in a long line of unobtanium's !!!!

In my experience, Sigma Aldrich seems to have everything (including ethylene diamine), fast and in small quantities, but if you find another source, most likely that other source is at least 50% cheaper.

 

[Photo Engineer]

And Unobtanium can only be had on a small moon circling a Jovian planet in orbit around a Alpha Centauri. I understand that the trip is 4 years minimum each way! Does this affect the gravity of the situation?

PE

 

[Rudeofus]

And Unobtanium can only be had on a small moon circling a Jovian planet in orbit around a Alpha Centauri. I understand that the trip is 4 years minimum each way!

This sounds a lot easier than getting a fully working recipe for C41 and E6 ...

 

[cinejerk]

Well aldrich has ethylenediamine, sort of. All sorts of compounds. Not sure which one to get.
Aldrich doesn't have HQMS, at least my search didn't find it.
So I guess they don't have everything

fisher has ethylenediamine sulphate though: http://www.fishersci.com/ecomm/serv...ulfate||sulfates&highlightProductsItemsFlag=Y

 

[Photo Engineer]

That is converted directly to ethyene diamine in the alkaline developer. It is what is actually used in packaging the developer IIRC.

PE

 

[cinejerk]

PE I have a question for you.
I was looking over that kodak VNF-1 info and I noticed a couple things.

The first thing I noticed is that the VNF-1 process has 2 color developers.
I haven't thoroughly read this yet but maybe different contrast.
Maybe you could elaborate on how that works.

Also I noticed that the first developer used straight hydroquinone instead of HQMS.
Can you explain how this works differently on this film or process?

thanks

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, for some reason I can't find that page on Kodak's site. Can you give me the URL? Sorry about that.

As for the HQMS it is used only for E6. I'll be better placed to explain that after I refresh my memory from the VNF-1 papge.

Thanks.

PE

 

[cinejerk]

Ok so the straight hydroquinone is for the the VNF-1 process only?

I think I edited the question while you were answering it.

I noticed that there are two different versions of both the color and first developer.
Probably one set for low contrast and one for high contrast.

Here is the link: http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG..._en_motion_support_processing_h2411_h2411.pdf

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ok, the two developers are normal and low contrast. If you look at the fine print, this is given to you and the names differ as well being First Developer and First Developer LC.

The HQMS is only used for E6.

There is an LC color developer, but the process does not specify any information on use in the table that I saw.

Thanks for that reference.

PE

 

[cinejerk]

So what you and they are saying is that straight hydroquinone will work fine for a VNF-1 film?

The difference in the 2 first developers looks to be quantity of sodium bromide and potassium iodide.

The difference in the the color developers is the quantity of citrazinic acid.

Very interesting.
maybe I'm learning something here :confused:

 

[Photo Engineer]

HQMS and E6 films were designed to go together and yield higher sharpness and better grain due to changes in the 1st developer and the color developer. Among other things, the E6 CD does not contain benzyl alcohol which thereby reduces image smear and changes grain and sharpness. HQMS is a gentler developing agent that works with the high iodide E6 films in such a way as to balance interlayer effects and image structure.

PE

 

[trendland]

At first let me intruduce myself :

I am a cinematographer and I use for
for my own photography-projekts reversal film since years.

Hallo " mts "

Your threat of 2009 becomes a current significance ( think of the last press releases from Kodak ). Yes indeed, I´m very interested in E 6 alternatives because of the future of Commercial E6 Chemestry in general. In 2004 - I went to my local calumet dealer to have a look on some E6 Kits after I´ve realised that the existence of Reversal Films is not secured for the next 20 years.

These Chemicals have had a shelf live of 2 years in original bottles. I guess theese Kits can be used for an addition of some years but never for 10 years or longer like " Rodinal" B/W develloper, for example.

"And you may have problems with the costs of theese chemical, because they will explode" - I said to myself in 2004.

And now in 2012 it is really time to me to take care on my reversal-film-material and make sure that it can also be develloped in some years. - Never have something against digital-workflow, by the time.

So, if you have got some alternative formullas for E6 develloppment i´ll not so much be concerned about the press releases that may will follow from fuji in the next month

with greetings

 

[trendland]

Hallo Photo Engineer,

your older threats in this Forum have shown to me,
that it seems to - you´re not a friend of Derek Whatkins
Formular.
I agree with this - because of the first deverlopper.

What would you suppose could be the result of an alternative E6 Prozess
that uses Microdol - X originally as a FD.

We´ll assume a devellopment time that could be estimated by "trie and error - method"

with friendly greetings to you in Rochester, NY

 

[Photo Engineer]

Not sure about Microdol X, but suspect problems.

PE

 

[cinejerk]

Talked with a guy at kodak yesterday about some ektachrome film. He agreed with me that E6 was well on it's way out the door !!!
So soon our only choice will be to mix our own.
Sad to see but I think he is right.

 

[Rudeofus]

Talked with a guy at kodak yesterday about some ektachrome film. He agreed with me that E6 was well on it's way out the door !!!
So soon our only choice will be to mix our own.
Sad to see but I think he is right.

It has been said all over APUG that Kodak's E6 endeavor is about over, they discontinued almost all their reversal films. Kodak labeled chems, however, are no longer made by Kodak but by some separate company and only sold under Kodak's brand. So the Kodak guy is perfectly right as far as Kodak is concerned yet may not be correct about the overall E6 future.

 

[tnabbott]

It has been said all over APUG that Kodak's E6 endeavor is about over, they discontinued almost all their reversal films. Kodak labeled chems, however, are no longer made by Kodak but by some separate company and only sold under Kodak's brand. So the Kodak guy is perfectly right as far as Kodak is concerned yet may not be correct about the overall E6 future.

This is good to hear and makes some sense. Fuji is the primary chrome film maker but there Pro6 chems are not readily available in the United States. That leaves a market for folks like Trebla, etc., and even Kodak branded chems.