Alternate d76 formulas, worth trying?

harlequin · May 23, 2020

Dear Team,

I will have to be ordering new chemistry soon, usually from Freestyle Hollywood...

I notice that they have several house brand powders at reduced cost vs Kodak and Clayton 76 which is liquid already..

Has anybody had 1st Hand experience with these alternatives?
Mostly shooting 120 fp4, hp5 and tri-x as well as some sheet film 4x5....
Maybe not having to mix at 121 degrees F?
Any sample shots, any to avoid, or do I stick with the big yellow bag?

Many Thanks for your input and suggestions...
If the formulas are identical I wouldn’t mind Saving 30%, during these strange times....

Be Safe!

Harlequin

chriscrawfordphoto · May 23, 2020

I use Freestyle's LegacyPro L76, it is identical to D-76. Because it is the same thing, it is a powder you must dissolve in hot water. I use it because it costs a lot less than D-76 for the exact same formula.

The liquid developers have nothing in common with D-76; they're all Phenidone based, while D-76 is Metol based. They'll give different results.

mohmad khatab · May 24, 2020

harlequin

harlequin said:
Dear Team,

I will have to be ordering new chemistry soon, usually from Freestyle Hollywood...

I notice that they have several house brand powders at reduced cost vs Kodak and Clayton 76 which is liquid already..

Has anybody had 1st Hand experience with these alternatives?
Mostly shooting 120 fp4, hp5 and tri-x as well as some sheet film 4x5....
Maybe not having to mix at 121 degrees F?
Any sample shots, any to avoid, or do I stick with the big yellow bag?

Many Thanks for your input and suggestions...
If the formulas are identical I wouldn’t mind Saving 30%, during these strange times....

Be Safe!

Harlequin

harlequin
I'm really surprised by this (harlequin)
what is your problem ?
2 gram metol
100 sulfite sulfite
5 grams hydroquinone
2 grams borax
Just four ingredients, you can buy them cheaply in quantities that will last you for ten years at a very low price.

Donald Qualls · May 24, 2020

mohmad khatab said:
harlequin
I'm really surprised by this (harlequin)
what is your problem ?
2 gram metol
100 sulfite sulfite
5 grams hydroquinone
2 grams borax
Just four ingredients, you can buy them cheaply in quantities that will last you for ten years at a very low price.

Not to mention, from the same stock of ingredients plus a couple others (also very inexpensive) you can make D-72 (aka Dektol), the print developing standard for the past century, D-23 (and its replenisher), the old press developer (really, really simple; D-23 is just metol and lots of sulfite, though the replenisher has a couple other ingredients) -- and most of the other old standby formulae.

In truth, if you're a D-76 user, there's no strong reason not to buy the above list of chemicals (Borax from the laundry aisle at the grocery store is something like $4 for a couple pounds). You can mix directly to working strength, immediately before use, and be certain your developer is always the same, always fresh. Next best thing to running replenishment (and not dependent on doing enough processing to make replenishment work as designed).

Ian Grant · May 24, 2020

At one time almost every company made D76 because it was an industry standard developer for cinematography, Agfa 19, May & Baker 320, ID-11, Dupont/Defemnder D6, Ferrania R18, Foma FV3, Fotokenia FR7, Foton N1 and more.

I'd mix my own as suggested and replenish.

Ian

Dali · May 24, 2020

Split D76.

mohmad khatab · May 24, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
Not to mention, from the same stock of ingredients plus a couple others (also very inexpensive) you can make D-72 (aka Dektol), the print developing standard for the past century, D-23 (and its replenisher), the old press developer (really, really simple; D-23 is just metol and lots of sulfite, though the replenisher has a couple other ingredients) -- and most of the other old standby formulae.

In truth, if you're a D-76 user, there's no strong reason not to buy the above list of chemicals (Borax from the laundry aisle at the grocery store is something like $4 for a couple pounds). You can mix directly to working strength, immediately before use, and be certain your developer is always the same, always fresh. Next best thing to running replenishment (and not dependent on doing enough processing to make replenishment work as designed).

Donald
Thank you very much for this important clarification.
God bless you .

Paul Howell · May 24, 2020

I have used Legacy Pro, from Photo Wearhouse their version of D76, and Ilford ID11, all worked just like D76. Clayton liquid is not D76, it is designed to have the same combo of grain, speed and contrast, but very different chemistry. A very long time ago I tired a full set of Clayton Chemistry, figuring that mixing from liquids would be easier then mixing powereds. Only draw back is short working life, so unless you shoot a lot of film I would stick with a traditional D76. I still used Clayton P90 for prints.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · May 24, 2020

If you are going to take the route @mohmad khatab suggested, you may want to seriously consider an alternative to D76 called Adox MQ Borax. @Ian Grant has high praise for this developer and has posted the formula in resources section. The replenished developer is highly economical.

Ian Grant · May 24, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
If you are going to take the route @mohmad khatab suggested, you may want to seriously consider an alternative to D76 called Adox MQ Borax. @Ian Grant has high praise for this developer and has posted the formula in resources section. The replenished developer is highly economical.

Yes we used adox Borax MQ at work in teh early 1980's replenished, I used to supply two other photographers as well, it gives better shadow details than D76, is shrper, finer tighter grain, the level of Sulphite is lower and that helps enormously, with less silver soolvency it's cleaner workin. It's close to Agfa 44 (Ansco 17) which is better than D76.

Ian

Paul Howell · May 24, 2020

I got a case of GAF 17, quart size cans, used for a several years until gone , really liked it much better than D76, now trying ID 3.

DREW WILEY · May 24, 2020

Photog Formulary has a buffered version that allegedly doesn't have the infamous shift from freshly-mixed to plateaued predictability starting about a week later. I tried it long ago, and it seems to do what it claims.

harlequin · May 24, 2020

Wow,

I really deeply Thank You for the info and feedback!

“Honey, it looks like I have to get the chemistry set out, I am going to mix this up my$elf....”

Additionally I find it confusing that Clayton would call their developer. ?\76 when it’s totally different (no metol)?.

I shall report back with results!

Adox MQ looks most interesting....Thanks!

Harlequin

Paul Howell · May 25, 2020

If you like the balance of D76, grain, speed, contrast, then Clayton f76 is a very good developer, but does not have the shelf life of HC 110, Kodak's liquid developer designed to give the same balance as D76, but really does last a very long time. (Or did, I understand that HC 110 has been reformulated by it's current manufacturer, so dont know it will last like almost for ever like the old stuff did.)

baachitraka · May 26, 2020

Ian Grant said:
Yes we used adox Borax MQ at work in teh early 1980's replenished, I used to supply two other photographers as well, it gives better shadow details than D76, is shrper, finer tighter grain, the level of Sulphite is lower and that helps enormously, with less silver soolvency it's cleaner workin. It's close to Agfa 44 (Ansco 17) which is better than D76.

Ian

Agfa 45 with just 13g of Sodium Sulphite but not marked as fine grain developed....

PA: Portrait and Ameature
FK: Feinkorn (Fine grain)

Ian Grant · May 26, 2020

baachitraka said:
View attachment 247057

Agfa 45 with just 13g of Sodium Sulphite but not marked as fine grain developed....

PA: Portrait and Ameature
FK: Feinkorn (Fine grain)

Luckily the chemistry is easy to translate, I have two Agfa Rezeptes, and a later Orwo Rezeptes. I think Agfa 45 will be quite grainy with some films. I also have a Dr Moome Andresen Agfa Photo-Handbuch but my German is rather non existent.

I like the term "Feinkorn" for fine grain Makes me think of taht Kodak film was it 2475 that had grain the size of Sweet Corn (cob corn).

Ian

Bormental · May 26, 2020

Speaking about cheaper alternatives to D76, I have been using this D76 version from Ultrafine. I do not observe any difference between it and ID-11, which is Ilford's version of D76.

baachitraka · May 26, 2020

Ian Grant said:
Luckily the chemistry is easy to translate, I have two Agfa Rezeptes, and a later Orwo Rezeptes. I think Agfa 45 will be quite grainy with some films. I also have a Dr Moome Andresen Agfa Photo-Handbuch but my German is rather non existent.

I like the term "Feinkorn" for fine grain Makes me think of taht Kodak film was it 2475 that had grain the size of Sweet Corn (cob corn).

Ian

Opposite to feinkorn is grobkorn

Will mix Agfa 44 for HP5+ and FP200.

Philippe-Georges · May 27, 2020

Try E-76, a formula by Chris Patton, Hopkins Marine Station, Stanford University.
It's a Metol and Hydroquinone free film developer with the same properties as D-76 but safer, non carcinogene.
Easy to mix. Prepare the 1% Phenidone in Isopropyl.
See attachment, there are other formula's, the paper one looks like a Vit C variante of Dektol which was a terrific KODAK product.
A lot can be found on the very good Unblinking Eye website, you must have a look over there!

Alan9940 · May 27, 2020

Ian Grant said:
At one time almost every company made D76 because it was an industry standard developer for cinematography, Agfa 19, May & Baker 320, ID-11, Dupont/Defemnder D6, Ferrania R18, Foma FV3, Fotokenia FR7, Foton N1 and more.

I'd mix my own as suggested and replenish.

Ian

Ian,

I looked up the Adox M-Q Borax formula you posted in the Resources section and I'm very interested in trying this with Fomapan 100, especially since it's reported to build contrast more slowly than D-76/ID-11. A couple of questions:

1. Is there any particular downside to simply mixing a fresh liter and using it as a one-shot developer?

2. If going the replenished route, what is the shelf life of both the original stock and of the replenisher?

Thanks!

Raghu Kuvempunagar · May 27, 2020

Alan9940 said:
. If going the replenished route, what is the shelf life of both the original stock and of the replenisher?

In my experience, developer and replenisher work well for over six months if stored properly. Use glass bottles or thick HDPE bottles and fill them to the brim. For storing the developer you can use a 1 litre bottle and keep its volume constant throughout out by replenishment. Replenisher is best stored in multiple small bottles as its volume keeps going down. Key thing is to minimise contact with air.

I use RO water for mixing the chemistry. Not sure tap water has any influence on shelf-life.

It's a very nice developer (replenished).

Ian Grant · May 28, 2020

Alan9940 said:
Ian,

I looked up the Adox M-Q Borax formula you posted in the Resources section and I'm very interested in trying this with Fomapan 100, especially since it's reported to build contrast more slowly than D-76/ID-11. A couple of questions:

1. Is there any particular downside to simply mixing a fresh liter and using it as a one-shot developer?

2. If going the replenished route, what is the shelf life of both the original stock and of the replenisher?

Thanks!

With any developer like this don't use immediately after making up. leave it overnight, or at least a few hours. The mixed chemistry has a shelf life of around a year, that's the working stock solution or fresh/replenisher.

Personally I'd go down the Replenishment route it's so economic, it's something I began using while at school and in 50 years I've never had a problem. I started with Microphen (ID-68), later using ID-11 in deep tanks,, then Adox Borax MQ, and finally Xtol. I always kept a notebook to track progeress, that way you easily pick up if a developer is going to turn and collapse, you notice that negative may be a touch thinner than expected, not enough to be an issue. It becomes second nature.

The other upside of replenished developers is they are instantly ready for use. I use 2.5 litre HD plastic bottles, these are very thick walled as they originally containd concentrated Nitric and Hydrochloric Acid and are unbreakable. The 2.5 litres is because my Jobo tanks need 1 litre per spiral, and I had these bottles at work anyway, I always purged them with hot water and left spent print dev on them for a day or so as it's alkali and would ensure no contamination.

Ian

baachitraka · May 28, 2020

Alan9940 said:
Ian,

I looked up the Adox M-Q Borax formula you posted in the Resources section and I'm very interested in trying this with Fomapan 100, especially since it's reported to build contrast more slowly than D-76/ID-11. A couple of questions:

1. Is there any particular downside to simply mixing a fresh liter and using it as a one-shot developer?

2. If going the replenished route, what is the shelf life of both the original stock and of the replenisher?

Thanks!

If developed regularly or not it is always possible to replenish the working stock. So this way it may be possible to keep the working solution for very long time.

baachitraka · May 28, 2020

Ian Grant said:
With any developer like this don't use immediately after making up. leave it overnight, or at least a few hours. The mixed chemistry has a shelf life of around a year, that's the working stock solution or fresh/replenisher.

Personally I'd go down the Replenishment route it's so economic, it's something I began using while at school and in 50 years I've never had a problem. I started with Microphen (ID-68), later using ID-11 in deep tanks,, then Adox Borax MQ, and finally Xtol. I always kept a notebook to track progeress, that way you easily pick up if a developer is going to turn and collapse, you notice that negative may be a touch thinner than expected, not enough to be an issue. It becomes second nature.

The other upside of replenished developers is they are instantly ready for use. I use 2.5 litre HD plastic bottles, these are very thick walled as they originally containd concentrated Nitric and Hydrochloric Acid and are unbreakable. The 2.5 litres is because my Jobo tanks need 1 litre per spiral, and I had these bottles at work anyway, I always purged them with hot water and left spent print dev on them for a day or so as it's alkali and would ensure no contamination.

Ian

Some claim or may it is a fact that replenished x-tol have slightly a different characteristics esp., on holding highlights. Do the replenished M-Q Borax have any such characteristics?

Ian Grant · May 28, 2020

baachitraka said:
Some claim or may it is a fact that replenished x-tol have slightly a different characteristics esp., on holding highlights. Do the replenished M-Q Borax have any such characteristics?

I always found better tonal range with replenished developers better shadow and highlight details, un-replenished developer give harsher results in terms of contrast..

Ian

Alternate d76 formulas, worth trying?

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