Alleged abstract photos are tiresome......wrong medium, too easy.

[wyofilm]

THAT was never intended to be an abstract - by virtue of close to two centuries of degradation, it can be interpreted as one (in case some readers are not aware, the image in question is widely considered the "first" photograph, made by Joseph Nicephore Niepce in 1829 at his house in Le Gras, outside Chalon-sur-Saone, France).

Yes! And my interest in posting Niepce's seminal photograph has more to do with interpretation by the observer than it does with the photographer's intent. Once an art piece becomes available for others to view the interpretation of it rests with the viewer and no longer with the creator. This is regardless of intent by the artist. Artist's intent in creation is important, but a transition of power happens when a piece becomes public. Of course understanding the artist's intent (if known) might make a piece more interesting.

I agree Niepce's photograph was never designed to be an abstract. Yet, it can easily be interpreted as that now.

 

[wyofilm]

JTK, When I read your initial post I didn't imagine you were referring to anyone on this forum. However, you made clear statements about what abstracts should or shouldn't be, which would be more interesting if you provided examples. I don't agree that art must always be premeditated in toto. In fact, I used Niepce's original photograph as an example. In my mind, it is a work that can stand alone as an abstract (though knowing its history certainly contributes to this conclusion), despite that fact that as viewed today it is entirely accidental and I presume unrelated to his original intent.

 

[removed account4]

As you've noticed, I've not said anything negative on this Forum about individual photographers.

LOL
you do ( and have for months ) via inference and via proxy..

as far as i am concerned,
people shold do what they want
and enjoy themselves ... because that is all that really matters..

vive la différence !

 

[Arthurwg]

I agree Niepce's photograph was never designed to be an abstract. Yet, it can easily be interpreted as that now.

Nothing what-so-ever abstract about Niepce's photo. Clearly has a "referent", even if you don't like the term. And so do those cloud "equivalents" . Indeed, I've seen tons of so-called "abstract" photos and I've found little or nothing to like in any of them. Waste of time IMHO. But if you like it, go for it.

 

[slackercrurster]

"Abstract" has come to mean "accidental results, limited intentions" too commonly.

What do you think?

Sure, for some.

But deep down inside you know you are either good at your work or a phony.

Nothing wrong with accidents and abstracts. Some people make a career on abstracts.

Here is an unintentional abstract by André Kertész - Broken Plate, Paris, 1929 (Via 'Chasing Light' blog)

 

[Vaughn]

...I hope you keep text like that ...

I haven't been, but I just started a word file called "Pearls", after the comic strip. However, if the house were to go up in flames (too much of that going on around here), the computer would be one of the last things I'll grab...or the first, hard to say. Two days ago we had a string of fires start right outside town and up the highway to the east into the mountains. Seems like a vehicle might have been dragging a chain and causing sparks. We were fortunate that there was no wind and all was contained within 12 hours. Rain in the forecast.

But in the end, I can not get too excited about the application of lables. My second images of branches still has a referent, mysterious as it is. The branches radiate from the lower center of the image, rather than randomly repeatitive like the other. It was taken in 110F temps, much too hot for rattlesnakes. I was out in the open, near a strange colored lake, and surrounded on three sides by 400' walls of volcanic rock. The heat rose up around me and burst through the end of the branches.

The volcanic wall behind the branches stretches over 3 miles and I was in one of four alcoves. About 13,000 years ago the amount of water flooding over these walls equaled the total flow of all the earth's rivers right now....and these falls would have been a meer ripple. And these floods happened many times over a couple thousand years, putting the area of Portland under 400 feet of water each time. How can that not affect ones images? Again, what the viewer finds in the image is up to them, but hopefully I have given viewers a visual push to appreciate the crazy energy in the image.

 

[kevs]

"Abstract" has come to mean "accidental results, limited intentions" too commonly.

According to whom? You're entitled to your opinion, of course.

What do you think?

You titled this thread "Alleged abstract photos are tiresome......wrong medium, too easy."; I think you're conflating "accidental results" and "limited intentions" with lack of skill and vision. Let's break that down:

"Accidental results" might occur if (say) I've selected too slow a shutter speed that results in the main subject being blurred in the image; I may think this result spoils the image or adds something to it. Aesthetics are personal. If the image isn't fit for purpose, it fails to communicate; it may, however, communicate my lack of skill.

"Limited intentions"; if my intentions aren't limited they are too wide to accomplish anything. My intent in photographing is usually to communicate something by making an interesting image; if I want to fix some societal problem I'll join a campaigning organisation. Unlimited intentions are rarely effective.

The attached image (mine) is certainly "abstract"; does it show "limited intentions"? Absolutely. Is it a product of "accidental results"? Kind-of; If I hadn't been walking past this scene at the time of day I wouldn't have noticed the reflections and the play of light from the roof. I'd also have preferred to avoid imaging the door frame. I think it communicates something; your mileage may vary.

 

[removed account4]

I haven't been, but I just started a word file called "Pearls", after the comic strip. However, if the house were to go up in flames (too much of that going on around here), the computer would be one of the last things I'll grab...or the first, hard to say. Two days ago we had a string of fires start right outside town and up the highway to the east into the mountains. Seems like a vehicle might have been dragging a chain and causing sparks. We were fortunate that there was no wind and all was contained within 12 hours. Rain in the forecast.

But in the end, I can not get too excited about the application of lables. My second images of branches still has a referent, mysterious as it is. The branches radiate from the lower center of the image, rather than randomly repeatitive like the other. It was taken in 110F temps, much too hot for rattlesnakes. I was out in the open, near a strange colored lake, and surrounded on three sides by 400' walls of volcanic rock. The heat rose up around me and burst through the end of the branches.

The volcanic wall behind the branches stretches over 3 miles and I was in one of four alcoves. About 13,000 years ago the amount of water flooding over these walls equaled the total flow of all the earth's rivers right now....and these falls would have been a meer ripple. And these floods happened many times over a couple thousand years, putting the area of Portland under 400 feet of water each time. How can that not affect ones images? Again, what the viewer finds in the image is up to them, but hopefully I have given viewers a visual push to appreciate the crazy energy in the image.

love that stuff
its in your head which is good
i've been thinking of your neck of the woods a lot these days
im glad to see and read that you and yours are safe and there
is rain in the forecast !
your description of hte walls and floods and knowing
the fires &c reminds me of how inconsequential us humans are
and if mother earth wants, in the blink of an eye ..

 

[Vaughn]

I am reminded of a George Carlin bit where he wonders if perhaps man's sole purpose was to create plastic for the earth...for some strange reason the earth wanted plastic and man was created to do the job. Now that it has plastics, the earth is ready to shake us off like a bad case of flies. I use to read a lot of SciFi, still do occasionally. One story of a man looking up at the full moon -- the moon all of a sudden became far too bright to look at. What a thing to see...

 

[Bill Burk]

I heard that George Carlin bit the other day, because that’s the kind of stuff I listen to...

I think there are exquisite abstracts, no I don’t get tired of them.

 

[removed account4]

yeah GC had a way of getting right to the point !

 

[fdonadio]

You put it out there and the viewer tells you what they see.

This is the problem (the “see” part). I agree with @jim10219 in that abstract art — be it painting, photography, music — is not about the viewer trying to make sense of the “subject”, as there’s none! It’s all about the artist conveying or stimulating feelings on the viewer.

 

[removed account4]

This is the problem (the “see” part). I agree with @jim10219 in that abstract art — be it painting, photography, music — is not about the viewer trying to make sense of the “subject”, as there’s none! It’s all about the artist conveying or stimulating feelings on the viewer.

its weakness ( what you have stated ) is its greatest strength
there IS a subject ...
one problem i see with photographers who make abstract images
is there is some sort of rule or rules that suggest the person who made the image/s
can't even title the image or say anything about the image &c. there was a thread about this
a while back .. the contributor/poster said as soon as that information was given .. the image was no longer
an abstract image and it was disqualified &c ... i find all these "rules" that people make up to make photography
"different" or "better" or whatever .. does nothing but squelches creativity.
like AA and his 64 crew or otherpeople who love the zone system or don't crop or contact print using silver chloride papers and amidol ..
or holgas and 40 year expired film processed in dung
sure it works great for them, and it gives them structure and enhances their creativity, great ! but one shouldn't insist everyone do that ...

 

[Bill Burk]

That's the problem with labels.

See something unfamiliar and you have to study to figure out what it is.

Give it a label and immediately you can walk on, having identified it.

Had this problem at the DeYoung museum the other day. Steve Kahn, The Hollywood Suites... his high contrast images don't follow my rules. I looked close at a couple prints, and chalked it up as not my thing.

I know in terms of quality of art, his surpasses anything I might ever hope. But in technical terms, I was unable to appreciate it at the time.

 

[fdonadio]

its weakness ( what you have stated ) is its greatest strength
there IS a subject ...

I don’t believe it’s a weakness. It’s a “constraint”. I don’t see a problem working with a certain set of rules, be it when I am taking photographs or skating.

And I don’t agree that there is a subject. By “abstract”, I understand that there’s no discernible elements in the image. If there is something discernible, it’s not abstract.

And that’s not a problem. It’s still photogtaphy (or painting, drawing, whatever), it’s just not abstract.

By the way, I’ve seen some images posted on this thread that I don’t consider abstract. They are nice photographs, though.

there is some sort of rule or rules that suggest the person who made the image/s
can't even title the image or say anything about the image &c

I tend to agree with this for the reasons I stated above.

 

[removed account4]

And I don’t agree that there is a subject. By “abstract”, I understand that there’s no discernible elements in the image. If there is something discernible, it’s not abstract.

sounds good !
but the way i see it is the subject is inward, not outward.
the subject might overtly be process based or it could be about something else entirely
when i say process based i mean the result of working materials,
part of or the end result of a project ( like eddie's images )
years ago i had a series of abstractions made by pouring melted hot wax on a series of glass plates
that i then put in my enlarger and printed as they changed from a liquid to a solid. it was part of a series
of images where i used a variety of techniques to make images that had nothing to do with cameras or film or subjective images.
every person who saw the series saw something completely different. some thought the subject
was the record of the technique with others the imagery conjured up other connections and subject.
i'd post some of these abstract photographs, but most of them have never been scanned and are singular images ...
( multiple images is another problem with photography and the subject of another thread ).

 

[Bill Burk]

Mixed media gives you a chance to make the label interesting.

Linen and silk woven with silver thread and fused into glass, layered with colored wax over copper-plated tintype

 

[Sirius Glass]

I don’t believe it’s a weakness. It’s a “constraint”. I don’t see a problem working with a certain set of rules, be it when I am taking photographs or skating.

And I don’t agree that there is a subject. By “abstract”, I understand that there’s no discernible elements in the image. If there is something discernible, it’s not abstract.

It ain't necessarily so ...*

There are many photographs of sand dunes that are abstracts and yet are discernible as sand dunes.


* https://genius.com/George-gershwin-it-aint-necessarily-so-lyrics

 

[faberryman]

It ain't necessarily so ... There are many photographs of sand dunes that are abstracts and yet are discernible as sand dunes.

Vaughn quoted from the Tate Museum definition of abstract in post 36: "The term can be applied to art that is based an object, figure or landscape, where forms have been simplified or schematised." So, if you accept a broader definition, an abstract need not be non-representational.

 

[fdonadio]

a series of abstractions made by pouring melted hot wax on a series of glass plates

Now that’s sounds interesting.

 

[fdonadio]

There are many photographs of sand dunes that are abstracts and yet are discernible as sand dunes.

So, if you accept a broader definition, an abstract need not be non-representational.

Then I would say indoor I don’t accept a broader definition... If you can see the sand dunes there, it’s not abstract anymore. It could stop still be a nice photograph, though. But this is just my opinion.

 

[Eric Rose]

Oxford dictionary:

Relating to or denoting art that does not attempt to represent external reality, but rather seeks to achieve its effect using shapes, colours, and textures.

‘abstract pictures’

 

[Vaughn]

Vaughn quoted from the Tate Museum definition of abstract in post 36: "The term can be applied to art that is based an object, figure or landscape, where forms have been simplified or schematised." So, if you accept a broader definition, an abstract need not be non-representational.

I quoted only a portion of Tate's definition. Some more of it;

It is also applied to art that uses forms, such as geometric shapes or gestural marks, which have no source at all in an external visual reality. Some artists of this ‘pure’ abstraction have preferred terms such as concrete art or non-objective art, but in practice the word abstract is used across the board and the distinction between the two is not always obvious.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Oxford dictionary:

Relating to or denoting art that does not attempt to represent external reality, but rather seeks to achieve its effect using shapes, colours, and textures.

‘abstract pictures’

Note it does not say that the subject is unrecognizable nor include accidents, mistakes or poster grumpiness.

 

[jtk]

.

Labeling one's photo "abstract" demonstrate fear that one's viewer won't appreciate one's photo. Seems condescending.