All About Argyrotypes

[Andrew O'Neill]

No, but I'm also following along...

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Not yet, but I’m following your exploration with interest! I’ve got a B&S order ready to go, but can’t decide if I just want to try Vandyke as a kind of recce or just get an argyrotype kit from Freestyle.

Otherwise, I’m also very interested in “alternative“ presentation methods—the hanging scroll idea you mention certainly seems to fit my aesthetic more than the whole mat/gallery frame scene. I will look forward to seeing what that looks like if you care to share.

Hope you chime in here when you start...we need more brains working on this process around here!

So far I'm leaning toward Japanese hanging scroll styles, but still a few months away from prints worthy of the treatment.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

No, but I'm also following along...

Beware...it's a meandering path, there is fog, and there may be cliffs

 

[FotoD]

lt's been a while since I made an Argyrotype, but I enjoy seeing your work.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

lt's been a while since I made an Argyrotype, but I enjoy seeing your work.

Thanks. A couple more tests and there just might be something other than Deck Dragon - Foo Dog photos.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

First successful Palladium toned Argyrotype of my go-to test image.

Mike Ware suggested using a lower strength toner for argyrotypes than you would with kallitypes. Yesterday I tried Sandy King's regular strength palladium toner at a 10 minute time, but things went weird with lower contrast and a neutral print tone.

This print was two drops of Sandy Kings Pd toner (2 grams sodium tetrachloropalladate II hydrate in 10ml distilled water) into 200ml of distilled water with 1g citric acid, and I gave it 5 minutes instead of yesterdays 10 minutes.

Another change was to use 20g sodium thiosulfate in one litre of water instead of 25g. Also reduced agitation in the fix by about a half. The toned print is *crisper* in fine detailed areas, so I figured the toner changed the shape & surface structure of the print grains and figured the fixer might have reduced print contrast somewhat?

Anyways...happy with these results and can now charge forward to make actual prints from some 40+ years of backlogged images.

This one isn't a straight print...the darker areas were lightened with a boost in contrast and the Foo Dog got a little burn on the top of his/her head.

 

[CreationBear]

Out of curiosity, if you are using the Don Nelson book as a reference, have you played around with a humidification chamber? I’m still on (and likely will remain ) on the steep end of the learning curve, so it’s way down the line for me, but he uses 30 minutes @ 100% humidity for his sensitized sheets to affect the hues of the toned print.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Out of curiosity, if you are using the Don Nelson book as a reference, have you played around with a humidification chamber? I’m still on (and likely will remain ) on the steep end of the learning curve, so it’s way down the line for me, but he uses 30 minutes @ 100% humidity for his sensitized sheets to affect the hues of the toned print.

No, I don't have Nelson's book.

I was just reading Mike Ware's description of humidification and its effects on high values yesterday. My first goal was to find the paper, adjustments, and steps needed to get a good black, pure white, and a full range of tones with an unedited (no dodge/burn etc) test image at a standard exposure time, then to get it to tone well. Been farting away at it for five months.

My next image should probably have a lot of subtle high values (with some darker and mid-tone reference areas) then try humidifying. My expectations are high, so hope it makes a positive difference!

Will probably try steaming first.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

This one should do the trick...straight import:

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Steaming test.

Ware suggests a humidifying chamber at 100% humidity for 30 minutes at 20C, but also mentions holding the print over 40C water for 30 seconds. Ignoring that completely, and in the spirit of taking things too far to see what happens, I held the print over a just under boiling pot of water for 30 seconds. His warning of over steaming causing fog was spot on.

Must also confess that this was day two with the same two drops of Pd toner, and the last print was 5x7 number 5 to be toned (200ml total volume) just to see how many & how long it could last with a cover over the tray at night. Mighty happy about the results as it will reduce costs and allow toning of test prints. (Will use fresh toner on 'real' prints).

Steaming indeed removed, not just reduced, graininess in the subtle cloud tones. Suspect appropriate steaming will remove the graininess and leave the pure whites intact.

There was one aspect of this extra step I wasn't ready for. Back in my art school days I absolutely fell in love with making Raku pottery. Something about the primal, elemental, natural forces at play mystery of not knowing what the pot was going to look like after pulling it from the propane torch & stack of fire bricks kiln, then stuffing it into a pile of straw and dead leaves. Steaming had that same sort of feel. Will be interesting to see if otherwise identically exposed and processed prints all differ in subtle ways.

First print is both, second is not steamed, the last is (over)steamed. The small centre cloud (just above the distant island) was left pure white as part of the test.

 

[BHuij]

I got "serious" about Kallitypes before I really discovered Argyrotype. Spent quite a while tweaking curves, adjusting process, etc., but landed on results that I'm quite pleased with.

I don't think my "tinkering with alt processes that have 32947 factors affecting final image quality" batteries have recharged enough to try anything else besides regular cyanotype right now.

But these photos of yours are very nice

 

[MurrayMinchin]

I got "serious" about Kallitypes before I really discovered Argyrotype. Spent quite a while tweaking curves, adjusting process, etc., but landed on results that I'm quite pleased with.

I don't think my "tinkering with alt processes that have 32947 factors affecting final image quality" batteries have recharged enough to try anything else besides regular cyanotype right now.

But these photos of yours are very nice

Just 32,947 factors?!!? Feels more like 100,000!

I hear you. I'm retired now, so don't feel rushed or have to shoehorn printing time around job, etc.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Here's the top right corner of the Pd toned argyrotype (first one) and the same corner of the over-steamed print in post #35.

When held in the hands at a comfortable viewing distance, the steamed one is smooooooth.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Steam and Pd toner longevity tests.

The top one is from yesterday with todays print toned in three day old (two drops Pd in 200ml distilled water) and steamed following Ware's 40C for 30 seconds...it was toned for the same 5 minutes as the previous ones and is 5x7 number 6 through just 200ml of toner. Crazy that it's still working, or at least trying to work!

Held in the hand, todays print isn't as smooth as the over steamed print from yesterday, but 'feels' smoother than the original.

Because the toner is starting to run out of gas (lower tones not as deep) I won't be making a judgement on steamings effect on anything lower than around print value VIII. It does seem to leave pure white alone and slightly add density to print values up to IX & 3/4 while raising value VII or so? Then again, weirdly, it seems the same tone in two different spots in the original sky went different directions in the steamed print, where one went a bit darker and the other went a bit lighter. Definitely worth exploring in more detail later.

I know it's bad form to be testing two things at the same time, but it's early in the game, the race is long, and I'm having fun

Top print is the original, bottom print is todays Ware suggested (but maybe not executed well) steamed one:

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Also...one of Argyrotyes best features, unlike making platinum/palladium prints, is I don't have the spectre of financial doom leaning over me and feel free to explore, experiment, and go through as many work prints as needed to arrive at a final print.

Using 100% Kozo or Gampi papers and toning in palladium should have them lasting upwards of 1000 years, so feel like it's my duty to spend the time to get things right. Intend to use handmade Washi as well, so also feel a duty to acknowledge & respect the history, effort, and skill required in its production.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Also...one of Argyrotyes best features, unlike making platinum/palladium prints, is I don't have the spectre of financial doom leaning over me and feel free to explore, experiment, and go through as many work prints as needed to arrive at a final print...

Should probably mention that it's long been my practice (even with silver gelatin prints) to start by making 5x7 work prints to work out most of the major kinks before moving up to final print size, to keep costs down.

 

[BHuij]

Should probably mention that it's long been my practice (even with silver gelatin prints) to start by making 5x7 work prints to work out most of the major kinks before moving up to final print size, to keep costs down.

That's usually how I work too. Get a good straight print, let it dry and flatten, evaluate under good light, keep careful notes. All in 5x7 size. In a future darkroom session, I can play with dodging and burning. If I like the final print well enough to hang up or add to my portfolio, THEN I'll print it bigger.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Tip for the day...order one or two sample sheets of new papers, instead of larger amounts.

I ordered five sheets of this 43gsm handmade Kozo. Yuck! It won't go to waste as it can be used as a backer sheet or for hinging, but I won't be laying any more sensitizer on it.

For those with TWEEN knowledge...would that have caused the 'fibrils' to absorb sensitizer? Haven't bought any TWEEN yet because the papers I'm using are so thin, I didn't think absorption would be a problem.

 

[MattKing]

You may not want to hear this Murray.
But I like the effect you ended up with!

 

[MurrayMinchin]

You may not want to hear this Murray.
But I like the effect you ended up with!

You can have the same effect if you grab a cat by the scruff of its neck and shake it vigorously over your paper prior to exposure. Then again, shaking out the lint filter from your clothes dryer might result in less scarring.

Precious is not amused!