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All About Argyrotypes

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MurrayMinchin

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For anyone interested, here's the curve used in Capture One on the forest scene. (Histogram shown is not of the forest scene, but the curve is the same). This probably isn't my last curve (it's attempt #24 by eye because I don't have a densitometer) and will be marginally useful to anyone else...there are waaaaaaay too many moving parts!

 
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koraks

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If any light is able to get under or come back through the Gampi, the blacks are weak, but the instant the photo is firmly attached to the white support paper, they drop. This is also when fine details appear.

Very interesting - plausible, too, but it must be magic to see it happen. Exploring these Japanese tissue papers is something I'd like to do one day (I sound like a stuck record saying that, hah!)

here's the curve used in Capture One on the forest scene.
Is it possible that you're using a fairly high UV blocking ink definition, causing issues with shadow separation while maintaining tone in the highlights? I was playing with some curves earlier today and settled on the following for Van Dyke Brown when making some negatives for @Cor:


Note how there's a similar inverse-S shaped curve, but it's a bit steeper in the midtone region. In my experience, having a very flat midtone region can produce/exacerbate problems with posterization.
In a digital negative, all you need is enough density to produce paper white at the exposure that gives dmax for the process. You can make negatives with higher density, but it tends to result in the kind of relatively extreme curves you've shown above.

I don't have a densitometer
You could use a scanner or a digital camera (or even the camera on your phone) as an alternative. It may not be quite as good as a proper densitometer, but it almost certainly beats a visual adjustment process.
 
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MurrayMinchin

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If you are interested in Japanese papers, try Ozu Washi in Tokyo...been there since 1653 and there's no North American middleman. Five days after ordering it arrives at my door. https://ozuwashi.com/

My Epson P600 has the potential to make near bulletproof negative densities, once you start printing on the Darkest setting and adding additional density using the slider. No posterization, so far...

This is one of the few Argyrotype curves I could find which mine is based on...



...found here: https://www.alternativephotography....8/12/Special_Edition_Print_Processes_v1.5.pdf
 
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koraks

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My Epson P600 has the potential to make near bulletproof negative densities
Yeah, similar here. Much of the time that's not really what you want. Anyway, if you're happy with it, no need to fix it eh!

If you are interested in Japanese papers, try Ozu Washi in Tokyo...been there since 1653 and there's no North American middleman. Five days after ordering it arrives at my door. https://ozuwashi.com/
Thanks, that's interesting! I used to prowl in my local arts supplies store, but they didn't really have any paper like this. There's a few kinds in the GMW catalog, but kind of cost-prohibitive and the selection is narrow. The Ozu shop looks really nice!
 
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MurrayMinchin

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Yeah, similar here. Much of the time that's not really what you want. Anyway, if you're happy with it, no need to fix it eh!
Pretty sure I used the Darker setting, no additional density via the slider, and added 20 yellow in Advanced B&W mode for some inexplicable reason.
 

koraks

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I also use yellow as a toner, but I use QTR, so the settings are quite different. I find it doesn't take a whole lot of ink to get enough density for Van Dyke Brown.
 

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Welp started making some step wedges this week. But I’ve been struggling with uneven coating. Worse than any of the other methods I’ve worked with, just can’t quite seem to get it smooth across the whole page
 
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MurrayMinchin

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aconbere

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Yeah I’ve worked through that. My paper should be good (Bergger Cor 160), sensitizer is working well, following the wet processing instructions with distilled water. Etc.

I’m using brush coating and struggling to get an even coat. Making me reconsider a puddle pusher.

I’ve included the best one from today. In this case I think it’s “okay” but fades towards the top left (this was the bottom right of the page when coating and I suspect it just needed more sensitizer). It all looks good right up until it goes in the fix and then there’s a good bit of wash out

Not the end of the world, just normal printing frustrations.
 

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Raghu Kuvempunagar

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Have you used this paper (Cot 160) for any process other than Argyrotype? I faced some problems initially when I made FerroBlend prints on this paper which I suspected to be due to some paper additive. Subsequently, I have been giving the paper a short wash in dilute Citric Acid solution, clearing the acid in normal water, drying and using it successfully to make FerroBlend and Kallitype prints. Has worked beautifully so far.
 

aconbere

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I haven’t! I usually use Arches Platine 145 for prints, but skipped it entirely for this because Don Nelson reports poor results without acidification

Which only puts me off because they suggest sulfamic acid. If all the paper needs is a citric acid soak I’ll test both.

Thanks for the tip! Hopefully I’ll have a couple test done today.
 

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We might have a winner, coated and processed the paper today and it is WILDLY better. Will add pictures when dry. I’m still getting some unevenness at the edges of the sensitizer where I suspect it crystallizes a touch but the overall print is super consistent now.

As for the edges… maybe a tiny bit more tween to help with absorption?
 

koraks

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I’m still getting some unevenness at the edges of the sensitizer where I suspect it crystallizes a touch

The edges of my Van Dykes are also often a little dodgy. Same with salt prints. For calibration I'd just avoid using the edges and for final prints either don't worry or coat larger and mask/overmat the borders. I personally don't like adding tween etc to sensitizers as it makes them penetrate all the way into or even through the paper base where I don't want it to be.
 

Raghu Kuvempunagar

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We might have a winner, coated and processed the paper today and it is WILDLY better. Will add pictures when dry.

Nice! Congrats!

I’m still getting some unevenness at the edges of the sensitizer where I suspect it crystallizes a touch but the overall print is super consistent now.

As for the edges… maybe a tiny bit more tween to help with absorption?

Tween would be another parameter to be finetuned and a potential cause of more trouble.

"It minimises bleeding of the colloidal metal image during processing, but may penetrate some papers unevenly, causing blotchiness or granularity in those that contain a mixture of fibres, or staining in those that are gelatin-sized."
 
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MurrayMinchin

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Identically exposed & processed on 21gsm Gampi, except for Palladium toned on the second one. Not fully affixed to support, just temporary tacky glue. Yes, there are coating issues, flaws in the paper, etc...work in progress!

 
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MurrayMinchin

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The photo of this print was taken with an iPhone, so jacked up quite bit in saturation, contrast, etc...there is good Zone III texture in the prints tree trunk and the higher tones are far subtler. Warmth provided by 21gsm Gampi.

Watershed moment for me. This was done as close to a WYSIWYG experience as I've ever managed. Straight from screen, to printer for enlarged negative, to dimroom for printing, with no test prints. No heroics.

Pretty sure the secret sauce was Epson ABW using 'Darkest' with +20 Yellow and an extra +5% 'Colour Density' kick in the butt. This allowed a good black and pure white at a 19 minute exposure. Some tweaking was also done to the middle and highest section of the adjustment curve.

Waiting for Platinum to arrive to compare and maybe combine with Palladium.



Feel like I'm well set in the starting blocks for 2026!
 
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MurrayMinchin

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The step wedges and the print both look great! I hope you have great printing in 2026!
Thanks a bunch & hope your 2026 goes great as well
 
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MurrayMinchin

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That's surprisingly slow for an argyrotype?
Beautiful print!
Thanks! Using Barrina UV LED light bars, so maybe that has something to do with it...
 
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MurrayMinchin

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Thanks! Using Barrina UV LED light bars, so maybe that has something to do with it...
...and using a heavy 3/8 inch thick 16x20 inch piece of glass to contact print with.
 
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MurrayMinchin

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This one is a somewhat better representation. (Note difference between the 100% cotton support paper border and the thin strip of comparatively warm non-image Gampi along the bottom).

 

koraks

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Oh, that's just gorgeous. I mean, the digital image goes quite a way in suggesting what the actual print must look & feel like, and that certainly must be gorgeous!