Agfaphoto APX 100 - is it Kentmere 100, or modified Kentmere 100?

[albireo]

It seems clear that Agfaphoto APX 100 is based on Kentmere 100, made in the UK etc. I don't want to go over this again here.

What I'd like to know is if Agfaphoto APX 100 is EXACTLY Kentmere 100, or if it is a film based on Kentmere 100, but 'tweaked' according to custom specs by Lupus Imaging.

Discuss, if possible supporting your argument with first hand experiences.

 

[retina_restoration]

It seems clear that Agfaphoto APX 100 is based on Kentmere 100, made in the UK etc. I don't want to go over this again here.

What I'd like to know is if Agfaphoto APX 100 is EXACTLY Kentmere 100, or if it is a film based on Kentmere 100, but 'tweaked' according to custom specs by Lupus Imaging.

Discuss, if possible supporting your argument with first hand experiences.

I’ve used both, and performance wise, they appear to be identical. But there’s no way to know for sure what the differences may be, if there are any.

 

[Paul Howell]

One roll of each, developed in standard developer such as D76, incident light meter, gray card in open shade, same camera, same exposure, then test with a densatomer, if a modified version there should be slight difference in density.

 

[albireo]

One roll of each, developed in standard developer such as D76, incident light meter, gray card in open shade, same camera, same exposure, then test with a densatomer, if a modified version there should be slight difference in density.

Thanks Paul. And? What were your findings?

Not interested in density alone by the way.

What about subtle differences in halation, for example?

 

[albireo]

Ah sorry - you meant I should do it. Yes I will, but I first thought I'd ask on here in case someone else has done it already.

 

[GregY]

A, Ilford claims to not re-badge their own films.....
I still have a small stash of original Agfapan 25.
I've used some Kentmere 100. I am not a prolific shooter....so i don't base my film choices on cost alone.
As PH suggested....try some of each side by side ......if they interest you.
IMO it's the only way to know

 

[Paul Howell]

Thanks Paul. And? What were your findings?

Not interested in density alone by the way.

What about subtle differences in halation, for example?

Sorry I do not have a densitotmer , I was only given a possible method for comparing the 2 brands. If both are Kentmere there will not a anti halation layer will perform poorly when shooting into the sun or highly reflective surface.

 

[Nitroplait]

A, Ilford claims to not re-badge their own films.....

We are talking about Kentmere not Ilford.

 

[GregY]

We are talking about Kentmere not Ilford.

Well they're both Harman products..... & the company line is that they don't repackaged their own products.....
they've said that for years.... but who knows.... companies change their direction.

New film from Harman?

In this thread, somebody says that the new film from Oriental is Made in UK. (there was a url link here which no longer exists) Is it a new emulsion from Harman, or a rebadged Kentmere?

www.photrio.com

 

[Paul Howell]

A, Ilford claims to not re-badge their own films.....
I still have a small stash of original Agfapan 25.
I've used some Kentmere 100. I am not a prolific shooter....so i don't base my film choices on cost alone.
As PH suggested....try some of each side by side ......if they interest you.
IMO it's the only way to know

That was true at one time, but Harmon who owns ILford film brand will sell rebranded film, including ILford pan 400 and 100, but not it's core line up of ILford films, Pan F, PF5 HP5 and the Dela films. There has been speculiation that Kentmere is rebranded ILford Pan, but the new Kentmere 200 would be a new emlusion. Of the bargain films, I have the best resluts with Kentmere, the only reason I only dont shoot Kentmere as my walks around film is the lack of anti halogin layer is tricky when shooting the low desert.

 

[retina_restoration]

A, Ilford claims to not re-badge their own films.....

Ilford doesn’t, no.
But Kentmere is a Harman product, not Ilford.

 

[Paul Howell]

Harman owns ILford, what ever business practices ILford felt obliged to follow many or many not be followed by Harman. Others have said that Kentmere is ILford Pan 100 and 400, which was and is a ILford branded product and is still sold outside of the U.S as Ilford Pan. It is fuzzy, as Harman sells rebranded products and custom coats for others.

 

[GregY]

Ilford doesn’t, no.
But Kentmere is a Harman product, not Ilford.

Well Harman has also claimed not to rebrand either Ilford or Kentmere....but who knows the current company line...

 

[MattKing]

Well Harman has also claimed not to rebrand either Ilford or Kentmere....but who knows the current company line...

Actually, Harman never made that claim.
They made the claim that they would never re-brand any product that they sold under their "Ilford" brand, but expressly said that they were not making that claim with respect to any of the other brands they offered.
That was back in the Simon Galley days, after they had acquired Kentmere.

 

[GregY]

Actually, Harman never made that claim.
They made the claim that they would never re-brand any product that they sold under their "Ilford" brand, but expressly said that they were not making that claim with respect to any of the other brands they offered.
That was back in the Simon Galley days, after they had acquired Kentmere.

?? If you can't believe the internet the world is in a downward spiral....

 

[pentaxuser]

A, Ilford claims to not re-badge their own films.....

While most but not all here believe that Ilford do not re-badge their own films, there has been extensive dialogue to the effect that as Kentmere was once a different company hat rule, assuming it still exists, does not apply

The fact that Kentmere when it was an independent company did not make film makes no difference, it still allows Ilford who does make Kentmere film to exempt Kentmere films from the "no re-badging of Ilford films rule according to some

I remain unsure whether anyone here has a definitive statement from Ilford on whether Ilford's former policy of not re-badging still applies and if so to which films

I hope that clears matters up for you , GregY. It certainly does not for me

pentaxuser

P.S. I have seen several other posts since composing and replying so it appears that others have cleared matters up

 

[GregY]

While most but not all here believe that Ilford do not re-badge their own films, there has been extensive dialogue to the effect that as Kentmere was once a different company hat rule, assuming it still exists, does not apply

The fact that Kentmere when it was an independent company did not make film makes no difference, it still allows Ilford who does make Kentmere film to exempt Kentmere films from the "no re-badging of Ilford films rule according to some

I remain unsure whether anyone here has a definitive statement from Ilford on whether Ilford's former policy of not re-badging still applies and if so to which films

I hope that clears matters up for you , GregY. It certainly does not for me

pentaxuser

PU, it does not clear the muddy waters, but it's not an issue that keeps me up nights. I'm happy with the Ilford films I choose to use, and though i've used both Kentmere 100 & 400.... cost differential isn't a priority in my film choice. This topic only caught my attention since I really liked the original Agfa films.....both the 25 & 100. But the new versions only share the name, but not the characteristics of the originals, sadly....

 

[MattKing]

The black and white film

?? If you can't believe the internet the world is in a downward spiral....
View attachment 402136

Simon corrected that comment from me (or perhaps from others) later with respect to Kentmere. It was one of those: "we reserve the right to" comments.

 

[GregY]

The black and white film


Simon corrected that comment from me (or perhaps from others) later with respect to Kentmere. It was one of those: "we reserve the right to" comments.

Thanks Matt

 

[MattKing]

There is no "Ilford" making Black and White film.
There is a Harman that makes Black and White film. That film is traded under the brand name Ilford.

 

[Paul Howell]

Other than the names I don't think Agfa film have anything in common with the original emulsions. Which is unfortunate, I did like 25 and 400.

 

[GregY]

Other than the names I don't think Agfa film have anything in common with the original emulsions. Which is unfortunate, I did like 25 and 400.

Exactly.... Happily i still have a few more rolls of both 35mm & 120 (Agfapan 25)...to use on special images.

 

[retina_restoration]

Other than the names I don't think Agfa film have anything in common with the original emulsions. Which is unfortunate, I did like 25 and 400.

To the best of my knowledge, all of the Agfa traded films are simply rebranded products from other manufacturers. Same goes for Rollei films - many (most?) of them are versions of Aviphot.

 

[GregY]

To the best of my knowledge, all of the Agfa traded films are simply rebranded products from other manufacturers. Same goes for Rollei films - many (most?) of them are versions of Aviphot.

Yes.... it is unfortunate. The original film versions were brilliant.

 

[pentaxuser]

PU, it does not clear the muddy waters, but it's not an issue that keeps me up nights. I'm happy with the Ilford films I choose to use, and though i've used both Kentmere 100 & 400.... cost differential isn't a priority in my film choice. This topic only caught my attention since I really liked the original Agfa films.....both the 25 & 100. But the new versions only share the name, but not the characteristics of the originals, sadly....

No I never expected it to but there was of course just a touch of black humour attached to my expression of earnest hope

pentaxuser