Agfa APX 100 back?

Roger Cole · Jul 9, 2013

MGIV doesn't do the "semi-brown/eggplant/greyish/etc." But I've never TRIED to get that out of either it or MCC 110, just cool it down a bit and increase D-max. Usually the more profound color change you're talking about takes stronger toner dilutions than I use too, at least with other than warmtone papers. And MGIV is fairly resistant, just not as much so as MCC 110 in my experience. I actually have a couple of comparison prints but scanning just won't show the subtly and it doesn't prove anything anyway since you can make a scan whatever tone you want.

Zsas is right. If the last APX 100 was made in '05, how far out will the expiration dates be, assuming it's been deep frozen since?

zsas · Jul 9, 2013

I'm gonna call 2 more cycles, one batch a expiry 2017 and the swans song expiry a
2020....

clayne · Jul 9, 2013

zsas said:
While I love how you all go thru the greatness-virtues-compare-contrast of MCC, I thought this was a APX 100 thread

So, question, to the folks who bought up a ton of this back in '05, are you surprised it is still readily avail in 2013 with expiration dates of 12/2015? At this rate the last of APX 100 "fresh" could be 2020!!

That's my read! The longest discontinuance of any product in history (ok a little embellished but still).....

I ain't complaining, just a little surprised and buying a nice stash of APX 100 along the way....

Yeah, I find it a bit interesting as well - it's like the never-ending master roll.

ozphoto · Jul 9, 2013

zsas said:
While I love how you all go thru the greatness-virtues-compare-contrast of MCC, I thought this was a APX 100 thread

So, question, to the folks who bought up a ton of this back in '05, are you surprised it is still readily avail in 2013 with expiration dates of 12/2015? At this rate the last of APX 100 "fresh" could be 2020!!

That's my read! The longest discontinuance of any product in history (ok a little embellished but still).....

I ain't complaining, just a little surprised and buying a nice stash of APX 100 along the way....

I'll admit I was really surprised at the long date on the batch I bought - I actually thought is was going to be much shorter in date, but was very happy when my assumption proved false.

If they were still manufacturing their *last* batches at that time, I guess even longer dated could be a distinct possibility? Whilst they went under, so to speak, surely the last lot of emulsion(s) didn't get tossed away once it was all rubber stamped? Or am I missing something?

Certainly an interesting conundrum, about my most favourite film; I just hope there's still some floating around when I finish the lot I currently have - and at this rate, it could still be advertised as "fresh dated EXP 12/2035"!!

zsas · Jul 9, 2013

What do you say we do an "audit"?

Is there any data in these edge marks?

The last roll I bought the other day, that has an expiration of 12/2015, has this edge mark....UD7050

Anyone make rhyme or reason of this?

Is that some sort of master roll number or merely the emulsion number or something.....

Richard S. (rich815) · Jul 9, 2013

One thing to keep in mind I think is that I do not think expiration dates are regulated. They are merely the interpretation and opinion by the manufacturer as to when the product is at its "best". You know like a Best By date on a food product. Past that date does not mean its now gone bad just that it may be past what the producer feels is its top quality. And that is likely very subjective. So no telling who might be using the same master rolls that might have been chopped into 35mm rolls sold by Agfa as expiring in 2011 and since they are only recently coming out of deep freeze are being sold with later expiry dates. Likely the same darn film but now out of "suspended animation" and therefore the expiry clock is only now more recently started.

ozphoto · Jul 9, 2013

5 of my bulk rolls have Em. No. 697, the other 2 Em No. 698; however, they all have the same Batch Code (?): B9Q25

Not sure of any edge markings as I haven't started rolling these yet - and the last batch of 35mm I rolled from bulk, was well before they shut up shop.

The two 10pk bricks (APX 36 exp) expire 7/2010 with Emulsion No. 697 also, again, can't be sure of edge markings at this time.

All of this stock was snapped up when I heard Agfa were done and dusted - I thought it would be disappearing rather quickly and that the prices would hit the roof (and some people *are* charging crazy prices!!), but I guess they had a lot more in storage than we thought. . . .

ozphoto · Jul 9, 2013

rich815 said:
One thing to keep in mind I think is that I do not think expiration dates are regulated. They are merely the interpretation and opinion by the manufacturer as to when the product is at its "best". You know like a Best By date on a food product. Past that date does not mean its now gone bad just that it may be past what the producer feels is its top quality. And that is likely very subjective. So no telling who might be using the same master rolls that might have been chopped into 35mm rolls sold by Agfa as expiring in 2011 and since they are only recently coming out of deep freeze are being sold with later expiry dates. Likely the same darn film but now out of "suspended animation" and therefore the expiry clock is only now more recently started.

A good point - the dates are imprinted on the boxes and the bulk roll labels, rather than the film - maybe the only way you could really know, is if someone had some film they purchased in 05 that has the same edging as those now being sold. 8 years and still counting.

clayne · Jul 9, 2013

I have some '08 stuff I could check... (might also have '11 as well).

zsas · Jul 10, 2013

Ohhh....now were talking

I smell a Apug-Scooby-Doo-'you-pesky-kids'-film-conspiracy-freeze-thaw-sale-scandal this will send shockwaves through the entire still-photographic-b/w-film industry.....

All the press will be hounding us with pictures of our APX 100 edge marks and box markings....

Press releases/interviews/statements abound.....

Perez, Simon, Mirko et al., press releases and all over the media by the 10a tomorrow.....here we go folks

Going to bed now....EU and Eastern folks....keep the ball rollin....

ozphoto · Jul 10, 2013

APX100 Bulk Roll 90/91? - 307
APX100 Bulk Roll 1993 - 373
APX100 Bulk Roll 1998 - 568
APX100 Bulk Roll 2004 - 585
APX100 Bulk Roll 2005 - 697 - currently frozen purchased 2005

I'm sure I had some 36exp films in use during that time as well, but couldn't find it with a quick glance. If I do, I'll post it later.

AgX · Jul 10, 2013

zsas said:
Ohhh....now were talking

I smell a Apug-Scooby-Doo-'you-pesky-kids'-film-conspiracy-freeze-thaw-sale-scandal this will send shockwaves through the entire still-photographic-b/w-film industry.....

All the press will be hounding us with pictures of our APX 100 edge marks and box markings....

Press releases/interviews/statements abound.....

Perez, Simon, Mirko et al., press releases and all over the media by the 10a tomorrow.....here we go folks

Going to bed now....EU and Eastern folks....keep the ball rollin....

Hello Andy,

as you are so interested in this matter, why do you not just ask fellow member Mirko (Apug handle: ADOX Fotoimpex)?

He sells the AgfaPhoto branded conversion, the same time he is a competitor due to his own arising manufacture.
From the rest of us you likely won't get better answers than what has been posted above.

Brac · Jul 10, 2013

The general practice, not just for this Agfa product, seems to be that the expiry date is set when the master roll is taken from cold storage, usually for 2 to 3 years later. The only roll of APX100 I have floating around came from Agfaphoto (Lupus Imaging) about 2 to 3 years ago. The batch number is UDO 699 and the expiry date 01/2013. I think the operative part of the batch number is the 699 - the letters probably are a code used by the packager, which in this case very much looks like it was the late lamented Ferrania.

zsas · Jul 10, 2013

AgX - I'd love for Mirko to comment, it's almost 10am

Back in 2007, he theorized that APX 100 could dry up in 2008....

...Depending on how this goes we would then shedule a first production for early to mid 2008 if Agfa´s leftover quantities are off the markets by then....

Something seems really odd re the continual supply of APX 100 in 35mm. I love it, not complaining. It's just that I search Apug and see the common buzz words "master rolls", "frozen", etc....

I'm starting to wonder when will this end? Seems like it's all Internet lore with no real facts....

I emailed Lupus, no reply...

zsas · Jul 10, 2013

A thought AgX, how's bout callin Lupus since you are in the APX homeland? Yo no hablo Deutsche

Ask them all the who/what/why's?

Check if they've a stash a APX 400 coming to market too!

I emailed them but not knowing German, I think I'm "Waiting for Godot"

Lupus Imaging & Media GmbH & Co. KG

Address:
Leichlinger Straße 14
D-40764 Langenfeld
Germany

Phone: +49(0)2173/20890-0

Roger Cole · Jul 10, 2013

If they'd find some master rolls in 120, and some 4x5 sheets, I'd be interested.

I still have an unopened box of 4x5 from the mid 90s, frozen the entire time except for transit time from TN back to GA when I moved, and even then I packed it in an ice chest with cold packs. Should still be good. Guess I should really use it. Never had the pleasure in 120 as I didn't get a medium format camera until 2010 or so, but shot 35mm and 4x5 in the 90s.

I just don't shoot much 35mm B&W and, when I do, it's fast film because the reason I'm shooting 35mm is usually that the light is too low for my medium format cameras and/or I need to work fast, which usually also means moving subjects and faster shutter speeds.

Roger Thoms · Jul 10, 2013

Roger Cole said:
I still have an unopened box of 4x5 from the mid 90s, frozen the entire time except for transit time from TN back to GA when I moved, and even then I packed it in an ice chest with cold packs. Should still be good. Guess I should really use it.

Just shot some 8x10 expired in 1995 and stored frozen the entire time. Looks great. Yes you should use, as it's not getting any younger.

Roger

ozphoto · Jul 10, 2013

I too wish they had some 120 frozen in a hidden stash somewhere. I loved that stuff and the tonal range was beautiful.

Richard S. (rich815) · Jul 10, 2013

ozphoto said:
I too wish they had some 120 frozen in a hidden stash somewhere. I loved that stuff and the tonal range was beautiful.

I believe the Rollei Retro 100 is still around in 120, at least on eBay from time to time. It's supposedly Agfa APX100. I've got some and it sure acts like APX100.

piu58 · Jul 10, 2013

> Rollei Retro 100 is still around in 120 ... supposedly Agfa APX100

Yes, it is made from APX 100 - 35 mm material. Medium format film has normally a thinner base, but this one has the thich 135µm base of 35 mm film. The film is slightly shorter than other 120, but I get 12 images on it on all cameras I tried. APX Medium format film isn't produced anymore, I bought my last packages at least 3 years ago. It has an expiration date of end 2011, but works still fine, of course.

zsas · Jul 11, 2013

Hi Uwe - I asked AgX the below but you seem like another possible candidate for the "fact finding mission".....

What'a say? Do you accept the mission? This post will self destruct 10 seconds after you read it....

What I said in post 90:

zsas said:
A thought AgX, how's bout callin Lupus since you are in the APX homeland? Yo no hablo Deutsche

Ask them all the who/what/why's?

Check if they've a stash a APX 400 coming to market too!

I emailed them but not knowing German, I think I'm "Waiting for Godot"

Lupus Imaging & Media GmbH & Co. KG

Address:
Leichlinger Straße 14
D-40764 Langenfeld
Germany

Phone: +49(0)2173/20890-0

Click to expand...

piu58 · Jul 12, 2013

Dear Andy, what do you need to know? The facts are: In the process of closing the Agfa film company it was cheaper processing all remaining raw material to film instead of disposing it. This gave huge amount of 35 mm APX100 master rolls (35 mm material: Gray 135µm base). Most of the master rolls were frozen are perhaps still frozen.
APX100 is a fine film. The films made from the last batch were always ridiculous cheap. I bought MF films for 1.65€ per roll (around $2) and 35 mm films for 1.95€ per roll (slightly more than $2) and still have ~ 150 rolls of MF and 50 rolls of 35 mm films in my cellar.

Rolfe Tessem · Jul 12, 2013

I've bought about 150 rolls from Macodirect.de and may buy another hundred as it seems to still be available. In the US, you need to buy quite a few rolls for the shipping costs to make sense.

One of the best medium speed films ever made, IMHO. As shame it is no longer available in 120. The 120 in a Rolleiflex with Rodinal was a classic combo, especially for portraits...

zsas · Jul 12, 2013

Rolfe - I agree! I've never ever wanted to stockpile film, but for the type of art I've been up to lately, I've no other choice but to be buying loads of this stuff! I hope one of our German brethren can give Lupus a ring and ask how long they think they will be able to supply this film and other questions to gather some intel....

mablo · Jul 14, 2013

I've used mainly APX100 since the last five years but as for now I'm silently wishing it would just go away. I don't like to cling on a dying film and fire selling old film stock hinders smaller firms like Adox from introducing new 100 speed films on the market. That's too bad for the future of film I think.

Agfa APX 100 back?

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