Agfa APX 100 back?

[ath]

I think Simon was specific about the Ilford brand only. But my memory may not serve me well.

+1. Simon draws a fine but important line between the brands Ilford and Kentmere. See the (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

 

[ath]

Simon Galley has repeatedly said Harman doesn't use its films, Ilford or Kentmere, for other brands.

link please?

 

[zsas]

I believe Simon said Ilford doesn't rebrand it's films. That doesn't mean that the parent company Harman doesn't rebrand Kentemere. Simon was very specific to Ilford but didn't mention Kentemere....

I will look for the quote too....

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Isn't is conceivable Rich/Clayne that Lupus hired out say Orwo or some other coater to make the old stuff?

I think that no one, not just us, can manufacture or remanufacture any 100 or 400 ASA film presently in a competitive way.
Prices for film are so low that any cost above pure material, labour and energy are not covered.
Remanufacturing an old formulation is in most cases as complex as to entirely develop a new film.

Mirko

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

I think Simon was specific about the Ilford brand only. But my memory may not serve me well.

+1. Simon draws a fine but important line between the brands Ilford and Kentmere. See the (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

link please?

I believe Simon said Ilford doesn't rebrand it's films. That doesn't mean that the parent company Harman doesn't rebrand Kentemere. Simon was very specific to Ilford but didn't mention Kentemere....

I will look for the quote too....

Here is one: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

And Simon's words: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Another day I was searching this forum for information about Ilford's Pan films and came across those links.

Andy
Emulsion formulas can be followed and the example you gave is a good one for Silvermax. Remember that Adox Silvermax was created by former Agfa technicians and was based on APX 100. So, it is possible the new APX 400 is based on the old one, but it will be different.
Until we have the new APX 400 and see its qualities, no one, apart Lupus, knows exactly what is it.

 

[ath]

Ricardo, that's a 4.5 year old statement that Kentmere film is not rebranded Ilford film. First, what means "we" in that context (Kentmere films were new at that time and Kentmere had just been bought by Harman) and second would Simon repeat that today?

Simon Galley has repeatedly said Harman doesn't use its films, Ilford or Kentmere, for other brands.

Surely you have a better link?

 

[miha]

From the same thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists) It really looks like that all those UK made products like Rollei RPX films and ADOX easy print RC papers are indeed unique products.

 

[ath]

Thanks, miha, that's a clear statement.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Andreas,
I hope you are now satisfied.

Miha,
That is absolutely correct!

 

[zsas]

So does that settle it? If it is determined that this film is coated in the UK, it is by virtue not Kentemere 400? Though it might be similar, technically it will have to be the Lupus' recipe for APX 100 and 400? That might be different for say if the film was coated in say the Czech Republican (aka Foma)? Gosh why's this soooooooo confusing?!

I really don't care where it's made, so long as it prints well, qualitys is good, etc....it could be coated in Suriname and I'd be fine....

 

[NB23]

Thanks, miha, that's a clear statement.

Gullible.

And you believe that just because he wrote it? That's all it takes for you? How many times did Kodak Management say "Kodak is here to stay"? You believed them too?

I personally don't care if it's Ilford/kentmere film (which I firmly believe it is. What else???). My money will go to the cheapest. I understand that they do all what they can to make us believe it isn't Ilford film in order to keep profits up. Even by "lying" or by playing with words/technicalities. That film is a Harman product. Otherwise why all the secrets? Why can't they point the real maker?
Marketing game, that's what it is.

 

[clayne]

Why do we even care what the new emulsion is behind the scenes? It's not from the AP/APX family.

 

[Arctic amateur]

So does that settle it?

It settles the question "Is this film rebranded Ilford or Kentmere?", and the answer is "No, it isn't". It doesn't answer the question "Was this film made at Harman's film factory?"

 

[ath]

Gullible.

And you believe that just because he wrote it? That's all it takes for you? How many times did Kodak Management say "Kodak is here to stay"? You believed them too?

I personally don't care if it's Ilford/kentmere film (which I firmly believe it is. What else???). My money will go to the cheapest. I understand that they do all what they can to make us believe it isn't Ilford film in order to keep profits up. Even by "lying" or by playing with words/technicalities. That film is a Harman product. Otherwise why all the secrets? Why can't they point the real maker?
Marketing game, that's what it is.

NB23, I said that's a clear statement. Not more. Calm down.
I simply wanted to know if Simon stated this here. He did.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

My money will go to the cheapest.

That´s why I´m so certain that no one will bring a new product to the market these days....

 

[piu58]

> Digital is much cheaper!

It depends. If you want to have a large, high quality paper photograph argentum based darkroom work ist a simple and straight way to get it. And a relativ cheap one. Compare to an inkjet or even dye transfer print.

 

[ath]

why then continue shooting analog?

Because I like it. The only valid reason for a hobby.

 

[NB23]

That´s why I´m so certain that no one will bring a new product to the market these days....

Well, between arista premium @ 2.49$ and tri-x @ 5$, why exactly should I overlook arista since it's the same film? To please whom exactly?
But I agree, this rebranding business has to be kept secret as much as possible in order to prevent hurting the company.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Well, between arista premium @ 2.49$ and tri-x @ 5$, why exactly should I overlook arista since it's the same film? To please whom exactly?
But I agree, this rebranding business has to be kept secret as much as possible in order to prevent hurting the company.

When I lived and worked in China for a while back in the late 90's there were factories that made identical products that were then either for export to the EU and USA by one foreign-owned company and also for direct sale domestically by a Chinese-owned company. The former had a line after production with inspectors for QC and a good percentage was rejected. For the latter whatever came off the line was sent out for sale, no QC inspection. I wonder if this kind of thing might also exist for Kentmere (or other UK-made film in same factory) vs Ilford,...

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Well, between arista premium @ 2.49$ and tri-x @ 5$, why exactly should I overlook arista since it's the same film? To please whom exactly?

This film was sold to Freestyle by Kodak prior to Kodak going into chapter 11.
It´s for sure a good deal today. But will it keep film allive for long if costs for the materials, labour and energy are higher than the end users price?
Companies need to make a profit. For some reason I am under the impression that photographers in general deny this to film producing companies. They are all bust by now except for Fuji. Do you really think you made them to rhich?

Mirko

 

[AgX]

This film was sold to Freestyle by Kodak prior to Kodak going into chapter 11.
It´s for sure a good deal today. But will it keep film allive for long if costs for the materials, labour and energy are higher than the end users price?
Companies need to make a profit. For some reason I am under the impression that photographers in general deny this to film producing companies. They are all bust by now except for Fuji. Do you really think you made them to rhich?

Mirko

The general demise of the past within the photochemical industry can hardly be related to consumers going for cheap films.

 

[zsas]

The general demise of the past within the photochemical industry can hardly be related to consumers going for cheap films.

Well said. Even in today's non-film world, premium films are the norm. I hardly see any rolls of Freestyle Arista Premium in the below. Typical American drugstore counter....

 

[kevs]

When I lived and worked in China for a while back in the late 90's there were factories that made identical products that were then either for export to the EU and USA by one foreign-owned company and also for direct sale domestically by a Chinese-owned company. The former had a line after production with inspectors for QC and a good percentage was rejected. For the latter whatever came off the line was sent out for sale, no QC inspection. I wonder if this kind of thing might also exist for Kentmere (or other UK-made film in same factory) vs Ilford,...

I very much doubt that Harman would purposely send out duff products.

kevs

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

I very much doubt that Harman would purposely send out duff products.

kevs

I did not say they would. But what one calls an "acceptable" quality control varies.

 

[StoneNYC]

Yes but 2 boxes of tri-x and two boxes of BW400CN film and ONE roll of c-41 color and one amateur pro pack (4 instead of 5) C-41 probably get bought about once every 6 months to a year, no one is buying those... people like us actually buy the freestyle stuff haha (actually I don't because I prefer Ilford for most films and they don't sell to freestyle anymore).

Also I don't consider any of those films to be "premium" films, they are all the consumer market films, regular "all purpose" C-41, 400tx which many pro's use, but isn't a pro film, and I'll give you that "kodak professional" BW400CN says the words 'professional' on it, but isn't used by any professionals I know... I've rarely seen it now and then here on APUG posted in the gallery, but most pro's use true B&W films and is oriented for consumers now since they can get that B&W look and still have it processed at the local drug store.

I recognize that film companies need to make a profit, and I hate to lose a film (like Fuji Provia or Velvia or Neopan400) over lost sales, but they also can't expect us to pay STUPID expensive prices either and sell a lot of film. It would also help us to understand why prices for films aren't consistent, we fall in love with a film, Acros100 for example, shoot it on 35mm, then 120, then we go to use 4x5 and it's twice the price of everything else in the same family, it makes no sense, at least none that we can think of. Is the price from 120 deferred to 4x5 in a market they assume can handle the difference? keeping costs down on the 120 versions? or is there some extreme extra waste associated with producing it in 4x5 that bumps up the cost to double? This pushes us away from a product and onto another different one, and it's easier to be consistent and shoot the same film, so then we might just switch altogether for ease of processing and shooting, not to have to deal with these inconstancies...

Anyway, this is sort of important for AGFA to hear, but also is a bit out of topic, but I don't want it taken down as OT either because it's important to know.

So if you produce APX100 and it's really great, I would buy some, but I would not invest in stock of 120 at $4/roll if a box of 20 4x5's was $65/box and 35mm were $8/roll, make sense? the prices should match so we aren't detracted by comparing those prices to other films which we see as similar. For example FP4+ (25 sheets) is $32/box but Acros100 for only 20 sheets is $56/box ... it makes no sense, it also turns me off from using that film as I feel slighted. But if I were to find out arista had a secret rebranded Acros100 that was in 4x5 for only $32, not only would I buy that, but I would know for sure that I was being price gouged because they obviously can make it much cheaper and still sell it to Arista.

Just some thoughts to ponder...

Well said. Even in today's non-film world, premium films are the norm. I hardly see any rolls of Freestyle Arista Premium in the below. Typical American drugstore counter....