Advice sought. The Photographers Toning Book reprinting options.

[Tom Kershaw]

I don't know whether there is a binding technology that allows lay flay usage, e.g. ring bound, but maintains "robustness"?

Tom

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I don't know whether there is a binding technology that allows lay flay usage, e.g. ring bound, but maintains "robustness"?

Tom

Tom

I would never do this to my books (or buy such a book), but if you are serious (and you mentioned this before), go to a good copy shop, and they will do this for you. They will trim off the binding side of the book, punch the holes and make a ring-bound version for you to lay it flat.

The pure thought sends shivers down my spine (pun intended).

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Ralph,

I'm inclined to agree with you; preferring a perfect bind. However the 'Film Developing Cookbook' and Bruce Barnbaum's 'art of photography' are spiral bound.

Tom

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Ralph,

I'm inclined to agree with you; preferring a perfect bind. However the 'Film Developing Cookbook' and Bruce Barnbaum's 'art of photography' are spiral bound.

Tom

Tom

You are not alone! I know of quite a few people who share your preference for spiral-bound books. However, many people prefer traditionally bound books. It's actually not too difficult to offer both (and hardcover too). All publishers, I've spoken too, are not flexible enough to try that, unfortunately.

 

[tim rudman]

Ralph,

I'm inclined to agree with you; preferring a perfect bind. However the 'Film Developing Cookbook' and Bruce Barnbaum's 'art of photography' are spiral bound.

Tom

I have been reading a lot about publishing and book design options while I am away. Spiral bound books are apparently unpopular in bookshops and with publishers distributing through bookshops etc because one cannot put text on the spine - the only part of the book that is visivle when stacked on the shelf.

There is apparently a 'lay flat' binding option with a spine - often used in cookery books, DIY etc.

I have been very impressed by the interest generated by this thread so thank you. I am investigating options and will report back.
Tim

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I have been reading a lot about publishing and book design options while I am away. Spiral bound books are apparently unpopular in bookshops and with publishers distributing through bookshops etc because one cannot put text on the spine - the only part of the book that is visivle when stacked on the shelf.

There is apparently a 'lay flat' binding option with a spine - often used in cookery books, DIY etc.

I have been very impressed by the interest generated by this thread so thank you. I am investigating options and will report back.
Tim

Tim

You are right, but there is a solution to every problem. Check out Dan Burkholder's book 'Making Digital Negatives'. It is spiral bound and has a typical spine with printing on it. You cannot see the spiral while the book is on the shelf, because it is opposite to the spine. Very cleverly executed!

 

[Martin Aislabie]

I have been reading a lot about publishing and book design options while I am away. Spiral bound books are apparently unpopular in bookshops and with publishers distributing through bookshops etc because one cannot put text on the spine - the only part of the book that is visivle when stacked on the shelf.

There is apparently a 'lay flat' binding option with a spine - often used in cookery books, DIY etc.

I have been very impressed by the interest generated by this thread so thank you. I am investigating options and will report back.
Tim

Thats a good point Tim, all Delias cookbooks lay flat when opened, so it must be possible if requested at the time the book is designed.

Martin

 

[Roger Thoms]

Hey, I don't care if it lies flat or not, just want to see it back in publication. That said, if it did lie flat I would not complain. Also IIRC my Kodak Black & White Darkroom Dataguide book has a similar design to the Dan Burkholder's book.

Roger

 

[tim rudman]

Tim

You are right, but there is a solution to every problem. Check out Dan Burkholder's book 'Making Digital Negatives'. It is spiral bound and has a typical spine with printing on it. You cannot see the spiral while the book is on the shelf, because it is opposite to the spine. Very cleverly executed!

No, there is a different type of lie flat binding Ralph, without any spiral. Looks outwardly similar to a normal prefect bound book.
Tim

 

[RalphLambrecht]

No, there is a different type of lie flat binding Ralph, without any spiral. Looks outwardly similar to a normal prefect bound book.
Tim

Tim

All I meant to say was that there is a solution to not having a spine with spiral-bound books.

 

[tim rudman]

Tim

All I meant to say was that there is a solution to not having a spine with spiral-bound books.

Hi Ralph,
yes I understood that. Thanks. I gather there is another lay flat solution as well though. I have read that bookstores and even libraries are not keen on spirals as they scuff adjacent books .

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hi Ralph,
yes I understood that. Thanks. I gather there is another lay flat solution as well though. I have read that bookstores and even libraries are not keen on spirals as they scuff adjacent books .

I'm interested in that solution. I only buy spiral-bound books if they don't come any other way.

 

[naaldvoerder]

Tim,

I hope you can pull of a reprint. It's a treasure of a book. Looking at the interest in this treath it seems like you already "sold" a good portion of a reprint. Apart from that you will have no problem reaching the targetaudience for the book through APUG, W.Moersch, FADU etc. It deserves a proper reprint. I'll be temped to buy a second copy, if nothing else, solely as an investment. Prices are sure to go up when the reprint sells out......

Jaap Jan

 

[tim rudman]

Tim,

I hope you can pull of a reprint. It's a treasure of a book. Looking at the interest in this treath it seems like you already "sold" a good portion of a reprint. Apart from that you will have no problem reaching the targetaudience for the book through APUG, W.Moersch, FADU etc. It deserves a proper reprint. I'll be temped to buy a second copy, if nothing else, solely as an investment. Prices are sure to go up when the reprint sells out......

Jaap Jan

thank you Jaap. I am still getting quotes for reprinting and I would love to do this if I can but as a solo guy I don't have a distributor network and much as I would like to think so I doubt if a reprint would in reality be bought by APUG members. Maybe 15 or 20 have said they might buy one and this would leave an awful lot of books unpaid for so it will ultimately come down to whether I can afford it.
Small run reprints are more expensive per unit and if the selling price goes too high fewer people would buy. It's a viscious circle in a very niche market.
Tim

 

[naaldvoerder]

Tim,

Maybe I was thinking wishfully. I did see some polls on Apug on various questions. Would it be an idea to run such a poll, asking one question only; Who would buy PTB for so-and-so price if it came available again?
Offcourse you shouldn't lose money on it, but I hate to think such a accumilation of (obvioulsy sought after) knowledge on toning would not be available again. I don't think there are many people around who would do all this work again.
Best of luck.
JJ

P.S. Was interest in Lithprinting that much greater, that you dared writing a second book about it and in a luxury edition as well.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

...Would it be an idea to run such a poll, asking one question only; Who would buy PTB for so-and-so price if it came available again?...

I wonder if there is any market research data available on such polls. In other words, how many of who say they 'would' actually 'will' purchase in average? I hope somebody can share this information.

 

[tim rudman]

I'm interested in that solution. I only buy spiral-bound books if they don't come any other way.

I looked this up Ralph.
"Ask for Otabind or other lie-flat binding. Not durable enough for thick books over 400 pages."
Tim

 

[tim rudman]

Tim,

Maybe I was thinking wishfully. I did see some polls on Apug on various questions. Would it be an idea to run such a poll, asking one question only; Who would buy PTB for so-and-so price if it came available again?
Offcourse you shouldn't lose money on it, but I hate to think such a accumilation of (obvioulsy sought after) knowledge on toning would not be available again. I don't think there are many people around who would do all this work again.
Best of luck.
JJ

P.S. Was interest in Lithprinting that much greater, that you dared writing a second book about it and in a luxury edition as well.

Jaap,
Like Ralph, I don't know about value of such polls really.

re your P.S. There is an ever rising interest in Lith printing it seems and Workshop demand is always high.
The point about the second book though was that I felt there was a need to publicise the considerable changes that had taken place in materials as new comers needed the information.
It was either a case of rewriting the first book or bringing out a companion book with different content, which seemed a better option. I also thought the idea of showcasing lith in different styles and genres from different workers all around the world would be inspiring.
The luxury limited edition was financed by me separately as I felt some people would really like a cased hardback.

Tim

 

[Martin Aislabie]

I wonder if there is any market research data available on such polls. In other words, how many of who say they 'would' actually 'will' purchase in average? I hope somebody can share this information.

I'm not sure about APUG users but I have seen a heck of a gap between what people say they want in customer focus groups and what they want/are willing to pay for in other consumer areas.

Enthusiasm of the monent seems to sweep folks along but when it comes to handing over their hard earned cash it is a different matter.

Of course there are those who say yes and mean it but a much larger proportion that say yes and mean perhaps.

I doubt APUG would be so very different from any other market place in this respect.

Martin

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I'm not sure about APUG users but I have seen a heck of a gap between what people say they want in customer focus groups and what they want/are willing to pay for in other consumer areas.

Enthusiasm of the monent seems to sweep folks along but when it comes to handing over their hard earned cash it is a different matter.

Of course there are those who say yes and mean it but a much larger proportion that say yes and mean perhaps.

I doubt APUG would be so very different from any other market place in this respect.

Martin

That's my experience so far as well.

 

[tim rudman]

Progress report

Not wishing to generate any premature hopes, but things are very tentatively moving forwards.

Encouraged by the response here on APUG, and after exploring numerous options, I now have a reprint quote from the original printers and have to decide whether or not I can justify buying 1000 copies myself, which is their smallest print run.

I am not a publisher and have no distribution network or reps, so widespread retail outlet sales are not likely. I am approaching a very small number of carefully selected specialised photographic retailers who I think could be interested but I am advised by the publishing trade that bulk shipping costs to even a modest number outlets will be prohibitive because of freight and custom and other charges - so it is not going to appear in your corner shop.

As far as I can judge, about a dozen to fifteen members here would like to buy a copy. This is encouraging but being realistic is obviously a very long way short of even meeting the printing bill.
I don't want to transgress APUG's code re advertising or selling and I hope I am not doing so, but if you have any more helpful suggestions I should be grateful to hear them so I can decide if this is going to be a viable option.

Also, please pass the word to anyone you know who might be interested.
Thank you for your support.
Tim

 

[tim k]

Make it 13 to 16.

 

[Chazzy]

Well, if it is a reprint, it should have an ISBN already and be saleable on Amazon.com and other major outlets. It's just a question of how many copies they will take and how you ship them. If shipping the books to the U.S. Amazon is impossible, I would be willing to order from the British Amazon.

 

[lns]

I just saw this. I would personally buy one today, but I don't think my order puts you over the top. Here are a few ideas.

You can presell (perhaps with a slight discount to prime the pump) before the printing run to minimize your risk. Perhaps you could consider posting or advertising on APUG and other photo sites. I wonder if Mike Johnson of the Online Photographer could be approached; he blurbs a lot of things for friends and seems interested again in the darkroom. Plus he has a deal with Amazon.

You can become an Amazon merchant and sell through their website. Many book self-publishers do; as do small businesses selling more quotidian products. I believe you can have Amazon stock the books for you as well (fulfilled by Amazon). So in essence you could hire Amazon as your distributor.

Are you sure Freestyle wouldn't buy 200 and sell them through their catalog? The books could be shipped to them direct from the publishers. Since Freestyle sells the toning materials, that would be synergistic.

This is a very sought-after book. I expect that there would be both immediate and continuing interest. Best of luck to you.

-Laura

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Laura,

I seem to recall my copy of the 'toning book' cost around 30 USD. Perhaps a higher purchase price would be justified for a second printing?

Tom