Adox CHS 100 & CMS 20 in 120 availability projections

[fs999]

We don’t really need CMS 20 II or any of the other fine ADOX emulsions in 120.

What ??!!

 

[Deleted member 88956]

What ??!!

+100

 

[Helge]

What ??!!

We definitely want them but we don’t “need” them (to fill a whole genre hole). We have plenty of very fine grained film in 120.
Aviphot Pan 80, which HR-50 is based on and enhanced from, is quite unique and is easily spoiled when rolled on bad backing paper.
SFX is not nearly as fine grained, not quite as extended in the red, and not as suited for reversal.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

We definitely want them but we don’t “need” them (to fill a whole genre hole). We have plenty of very fine grained film in 120.
Aviphot Pan 80, which HR-50 is based on and enhanced from, is quite unique and is easily spoiled when rolled on bad backing paper.
SFX is not nearly as fine grained, not quite as extended in the red, and not as suited for reversal.

Yet there is nothing like CHS 100 II. And the main point is to have Adox keep making these things and of all B&W emulsions I'm going to say 100 is the one to keep going with as a matter of priority. I wish a 200 would have been added to this mix, and one day a 400 as well. I don't like pushing/messing with standard ISO designation, no matter what anybody says.

 

[Helge]

Yet there is nothing like CHS 100 II. And the main point is to have Adox keep making these things and of all B&W emulsions I'm going to say 100 is the one to keep going with as a matter of priority. I wish a 200 would have been added to this mix, and one day a 400 as well. I don't like pushing/messing with standard ISO designation, no matter what anybody says.

Ok, tell me what is so special about CHS 100 II then, that can not be achieved with filtering of Ilfords lineup?
Don’t get me wrong. It is fine grained and the spectral response is unique, and it does reverse. But the same effects and abilities can be closely done/approximated with other film.

 

[AgX]

The only one that would make sense would be HR-50, since all the rebranded Aviphot “Rollei” 120 films have very spotty QC, mottling and black spots still being rampant.

I do not get your pont at all, as all these films have originally same source and quality control. Issues related to conversion to type 120 under control of Maco ("Rollei") may or may not happen at Adox, seen the recent issues with paper backed rollfilms of other manufacturers. But I do not see how you could as such exclude from the start one film from having problems at Adox' conversion if it had, to your saying, already such at the Maco conversion.

But I hope that Adox, having already a pause in type 120 manufacture at a restart are able to avoid problems others suffered during constant offering.

 

[Helge]

I do not get your pont at all, as all these films have originally same source and quality control. Issues related to conversion to type 120 under control of Maco ("Rollei") may or may not happen at Adox, seen the recent issues with paper backed rollfilms of other manufacturers. But I do not see how you could as such exclude from the start one film from having problems at Adox' conversion if it had, to your saying, already such at the Maco conversion.

But I hope that Adox, having already a pause in type 120 manufacture at a restart are able to avoid problems others suffered during constant offering.

Maco obviously has much worse QC and lower aspirations than ADOX. The rolls that are confectioned by Ilford are fine. But they are rare and impossible to spot.
Fomas rolling is the problem. Not only the print but also contamination from dust and touch (?) and textured mottling from the structure of the paper.
Perhaps Ilford knows how to paperback super pan film from SFX?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Ok, tell me what is so special about CHS 100 II then, that can not be achieved with filtering of Ilfords lineup?
Don’t get me wrong. It is fine grained and the spectral response is unique, and it does reverse. But the same effects and abilities can be closely done/approximated with other film.

The more manufacturers making films, the better. More competition is a good thing.

 

[Helge]

The more manufacturers making films, the better. More competition is a good thing.

Absolutely, but it’s in the interest of everyone to diversify.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Absolutely, but it’s in the interest of everyone to diversify.

Everyone as in the customer?

 

[AgX]

The more manufacturers making films, the better. More competition is a good thing.

But with a limited market and small profits, this can become deadly.


https://bit.ly/3dpdph9

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

But with a limited market and small profits, this can become deadly.

Yes, everything has its limits... but I don't think we are any where near that in regards to film... I would be happy if Fuji brought back a couple more emulsions, like their 1600 Neopan, for example.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I would be happy if Fuji brought back a couple more emulsions, like their 1600 Neopan, for example.

I'm sure they would if their bean counters were convinced it was a sensible move on a money basis. It's not, at least at this time. Let's leave betting the company on new products to aerospace companies like Boeing (did it when the 747 first came out) or SpaceX (apparently in that position relative to Starship/Super Heavy), or disruptive startups like Tesla (Model 3 was make or break).

 

[Helge]

Everyone as in the customer?

Especially the customer.

 

[fs999]

Maco obviously has much worse QC and lower aspirations than ADOX. The rolls that are confectioned by Ilford are fine. But they are rare and impossible to spot.

Maco does nothing. The problem of R80S is from Foma. If you look at the RPX50, which is spooled by Harman, there is no such problem.

 

[Helge]

Maco does nothing. The problem of R80S is from Foma. If you look at the RPX50, which is spooled by Harman, there is no such problem.

The two times I tried RPX 25 (last spring) it had the same problems and Foma confectioning. How recently did you check?

 

[miha]

What is RPX50?

 

[Helge]

What is RPX50?

Sorry, meant RPX 25. Corrected my post to avoid confusion.

 

[flavio81]

Ok, tell me what is so special about CHS 100 II then, that can not be achieved with filtering of Ilfords lineup?

because CHS = Customized for Helge in Skandinavien

 

[flavio81]

We definitely want them but we don’t “need” them (to fill a whole genre hole). We have plenty of very fine grained film in 120.
Aviphot Pan 80, which HR-50 is based on and enhanced from, is quite unique and is easily spoiled when rolled on bad backing paper.
SFX is not nearly as fine grained, not quite as extended in the red, and not as suited for reversal.

I'm going to try bw reversal pretty soon so using a film that works really good with reversal is very important for me. Currently the most specialized film for this application is Fomapan R100 which isn't available in 120. You can reverse almost any B/W film but that doesn't mean all will look equally nice.

 

[Anon Ymous]

I'm going to try bw reversal pretty soon so using a film that works really good with reversal is very important for me. Currently the most specialized film for this application is Fomapan R100 which isn't available in 120. You can reverse almost any B/W film but that doesn't mean all will look equally nice.

All medium format Ilford films have IIRC clear base, which is probably the most important characteristic for reversal. A gray base isn't terrible, but certainly not as good as a clear one.

 

[flavio81]

All medium format Ilford films have IIRC clear base, which is probably the most important characteristic for reversal. A gray base isn't terrible, but certainly not as good as a clear one.

You need, more or less:
- clear base
- emulsion able to keep up with high temperatures without reticulation
- ability to reach high Dmax

and maybe other qualities as well.

 

[Helge]

You need, more or less:
- clear base
- emulsion able to keep up with high temperatures without reticulation
- ability to reach high Dmax

and maybe other qualities as well.

So HR-50 is ideal?

 

[Anon Ymous]

You need, more or less:
- clear base
- emulsion able to keep up with high temperatures without reticulation
- ability to reach high Dmax

and maybe other qualities as well.

High temperatures? What for? 20°C is perfectly adequate for reversal processing. Dmax needs to be high enough, not ridiculously high. From some point on, it's meaningless. Guess what, the Agfa Scala 200X that people dearly loved didn't even get to a density of 3 according to the datasheet. And if you care to invest time and resources to fine tune your process (exposure index developer, thiocyanate content and development time) you will, in the end, get nice results.

 

[flavio81]

High temperatures? What for? 20°C is perfectly adequate for reversal processing. Dmax needs to be high enough, not ridiculously high. From some point on, it's meaningless. Guess what, the Agfa Scala 200X .

Whose process reportedly used temperatures much higher than 20 degrees..