Adox CHS 100 & CMS 20 in 120 availability projections

[Deleted member 88956]

Can't find anything on this, although am aware pandemic has not been helpful in all kinds of ways.

While I like shopping Fotoimpex site, it sometimes puts me off when a product is simply "out of stock" without any "in stock" projections stated. That given connection between Fotoimpex and Adox.

Simply: Adox CHS and CMS in 120 format - is there a date in sight?

 

[Team ADOX]

Simply: Adox CHS and CMS in 120 format - is there a date in sight?

No, there is not.
That is the honest answer. We are working on it, but we cannot give a reliable assessment about the timeline. As producing 120 film is really extremely complex, difficult and on a very high technology level. Especially if you want to offer very high quality, which is our aim.
Lots has changed in the last years in the industry in the supply chain. We have to do much much more in-house by our own now. And that is very challenging for a very small and kind of "start-up" company like we are.
And the pandemic has caused lots of new problems and challenges.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.
THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE ANALOG.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Sounds like you almost gave up on 120 format if there is nothing else to say. I can understand everything, just that saying we have no idea is not far from saying maybe never. But I suppose it's clear we're at best 6 months away from it. Bummer for MF shooters though. Just makes me wonder if the problem with backing paper or is it something else?

Still, honesty appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Team ADOX]

Sounds like you almost gave up on 120 format if there is nothing else to say.

No, we have not stopped our efforts. We are working on it.
But it would be simply dishonest and untrustworthy to give a timeline. It is such a complex project, most photographers cannot imagine how many hurdles and obstacles have to be overcome.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.
THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE ANALOG.

 

[Ernst-Jan]

Can't find anything on this

You still have sight? It is asked quite often...

 

[Ernst-Jan]

But it would be simply dishonest and untrustworthy to give a timeline.

You did, though in PhotoKlassik I.2020 if I'm right. Just before the pandamic though...

I saw Lina writing in YT you were in need of a mechatronic... I am just mechanical engineer, I wish I could help with getting the line working.

 

[Team ADOX]

You did, though in PhotoKlassik I.2020 if I'm right. Just before the pandamic though...

Yes, and the pandemic has changed so much.....to the worse.
And also because of this experience we will not give any timelines anymore.

I saw Lina writing in YT you were in need of a mechatronic... I am just mechanical engineer, I wish I could help with getting the line working.

Thank you very much for your offer.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.
THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE ANALOG.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

No, we have not stopped our efforts. We are working on it.
But it would be simply dishonest and untrustworthy to give a timeline. It is such a complex project, most photographers cannot imagine how many hurdles and obstacles have to be overcome.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.
THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE ANALOG.

I always appreciate how you respond to requests. I was just disappointed hearing not much at first. Now I understand it is simply not possible to play with words and give hope when for the time being none can be given.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

You still have sight? It is asked quite often...

After ADOX's reply I won't be asking as I think it will be given to the public on a platter once it becomes possible to produce it again. Have to a bigger freezer in the mean time for that moment

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Film prices today are at about the same level than in the 80ies if you factor in inflation but costs per piece are much higher than they were back then when we made hundreds of millions of pieces. As a manufacturer we are still counting pennies per roll in profit. And this only if all goes well and no mistakes occur. We are all using equipment built more than 20 years ago, often 40 years ago and sometimes 60+ years ago by letting it simply run. Else it would not be possible to offer film at such low prices. This however means in the counter conclusion that whenever a pice of equipment breaks it is (often) not financially feasable to repair it (not technologically) and the respective product simply gets canceled. The same is true if we have to substitute a chemical in an emulsion recipe. Our 120 spooling machine broke four years ago and we suddenly had to slit all materials ourselves due to market consolidation. An whilst we are aware that there is demand for 120 films still the costs of fixing it will (alyways) outrun any possible profit which we might (ever) make by manufacturing and selling 120 film @ 5-10 cents above costs. This is why we do not offer 120 film or other players does not supply enough consumer color film at present.
Still we at ADOX have great passion and we want to be able to manufacture 120 film in the future again. Therefore we invest all profits which we make in the FOTOIMPEX group to address such issues. But those profits must be earned before and then they can be "sacrificed" on projects like this. So the profitability of FOTOIMPEX is defining the investments we can undertake @ ADOX. Corona and the closure of the shop in Berlin by German officials without any compensation for medium sized businesses surely did not help in this respect. Since this summer we started again to work on "the beast" and we did progress a bit. We will also have another engineer on the team from mid November on. So we are moving and definitely faster now as well.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

All I can say is that I am hooked on Adox film and will by whatever I can as well as make purchases at Fotoimpex + try to spread the word to do same.

Fingers crossed for it all to come together
Long live 120 film.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

All I can say is that I am hooked on Adox film and will by whatever I can as well as make purchases at Fotoimpex + try to spread the word to do same.

Fingers crossed for it all to come together
Long live 120 film.

Thank you.

 

[mshchem]

Thank you.

I'm very interested in Adox. I will be buying most of my black and white chemistry from Adox. I use a fair amount for a retail consumer.

Regarding 100's of millions of rolls, I suspect Eastman Kodak did that in an 8 hour shift globally.

It's uncanny how everything related to making an actual physical photograph has collapsed.

Maybe we should all chip in to buy a new 120 machine, then lease it back to Adox for 1 dollar for the next century.

 

[AgX]

This is why ... other players does not supply enough consumer color film at present.

So you say there is a bottleneck in the colour film industry due to too low profits ?

 

[mshchem]

You can buy one Kodak Bld. 38 for 1 billion USD, The next one would probably cost 10 billion. It's a bit like, we have a F-14 fighter, no one has the tooling to make another, so make one by hand.

 

[MattKing]

Regarding 100's of millions of rolls, I suspect Eastman Kodak did that in an 8 hour shift globally.

Not quite.
I have it on good authority that Eastman Kodak in their heyday manufactured upwards of 70 master stock rolls a day of Kodacolor…each and every day – enough to make nearly 3.4 million spools each day.
Or so I've heard...

 

[mshchem]

Think of all the film used since the beginning. Photo, litho, X-ray etc etc. Boggles the mind. How much silver, paper and plastic. Incredible.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Think of all the film used since the beginning. Photo, litho, X-ray etc etc. Boggles the mind. How much silver, paper and plastic. Incredible.

I started this thread to get feedback on 120 format from Adox. Now you are hijacking it. Or tell me how is your post helping figure out problems at hand right now.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

I started this thread...tell me how is your post helping figure out problems at hand right now.

How is this thread helping "figure out problems at hand?"

 

[markjwyatt]

How is this thread helping "figure out problems at hand?"

It allows ADOX to ahve some direct contact with interested customers, and what we would likel to purchase from them.

 

[AgX]

Well, we already discussed at other threads the validity of a dozen posters at Apug wanting something as base for a management decision to start the production of something.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

It allows ADOX to ahve some direct contact with interested customers, and what we would likel to purchase from them.

As if Mirko didn't already know that there's demand for 120 ADOX film.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

It'll happen when it happens. Certainly, we can wait, no?

 

[pbromaghin]

I started this thread to get feedback on 120 format from Adox. Now you are hijacking it. Or tell me how is your post helping figure out problems at hand right now.

Starting a thread does not mean you own it.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Starting a thread does not mean you own it.

I don't own it, but some threads have very specific purpose, as this one has. ADOX generously comes back with quite detailed response on the matter, but that was still not good enough to figure it may perhaps be left alone and not taken in a squarely unintended direction.