ADOX chemistry security of supply

[Craig]

I'm in Canada and the cost of shipping is what stops me from buying much from Adox. I just had a look and shipping for a single 120 film starts at 36.60 EUR. I know it costs what it costs, but it is a barrier to me buying your products over Ilford which is available locally.

The last order from Berlin took 6 weeks to arrive, so I need to plan ahead too; if I run out of fixer I don't necessarily want to delay a printing session for a month and a half.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Yup, it is, what it is. Therefore we, Europeans, don't buy anything from US. Shipping alone requires a fortune.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

I'm in Canada and the cost of shipping is what stops me from buying much from Adox. I just had a look and shipping for a single 120 film starts at 36.60 EUR. I know it costs what it costs, but it is a barrier to me buying your products over Ilford which is available locally.

The last order from Berlin took 6 weeks to arrive, so I need to plan ahead too; if I run out of fixer I don't necessarily want to delay a printing session for a month and a half.

Ofcourse one roll is not economic but if you bought 10 plus some other things it can essily be already cost effective. In the US shipping should not take 6 weeks anymore like I said. For Canada I am not sure ar the moment but we can look into this as well.

 

[snusmumriken]

However due to the unavailability of Ilford, Kodak, Tetenal and others…

This also makes us probably the last large brand where you can buy photo chemistry directly from the manufacturer with full support by the people who actually make what they sell

What happened to Ilford?

Their chemistry is/was manufactured by Tetenal

If there is a shortage, there should be some evidence. I just visited the Ilford website and checked availability of a dozen or so randomly chosen chemicals. All were in “in stock”.

I appreciate what Adox do in this industry, but is this more than cashing in on a rumour?

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Could be just a sizeable stock that takes time to exhaust, meanwhile Ilford can sort things out in background, for example. Could be.

 

[Ernst-Jan]

If there is a shortage, there should be some evidence. I just visited the Ilford website and checked availability of a dozen or so randomly chosen chemicals. All were in “in stock”.

I appreciate what Adox do in this industry, but is this more than cashing in on a rumour?

As Adox being owned by one of the largest suppliers of Europe, they will probably have some market knowledge.
Maybe the big suppliers all have stocked up on Ilford and Tetenal, so they have it in stock now, but are not able to buy new stock from their supplier.

Maybe did Harman also stock up on chemicals.

I don't think Mirko/Adox has bad intensions by sharing this with us. Ofcourse his chimney needs to smoke too, and I grant him an extra slice of Schinken on his sandwich

 

[snusmumriken]

As Adox being owned by one of the largest suppliers of Europe, they will probably have some market knowledge.

Probably.

Maybe the big suppliers all have stocked up on Ilford and Tetenal, so they have it in stock now, but are not able to buy new stock from their supplier.

Maybe did Harman also stock up on chemicals.

Maybe.

I don't think Mirko/Adox has bad intensions by sharing this with us. Ofcourse his chimney needs to smoke too, and I grant him an extra slice of Schinken on his sandwich

And a gherkin too, by all means. As said, I value their presence on the scene, but you know how twitchy this community is over rumours!

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Probably.

Maybe.

And a gherkin too, by all means. As said, I value their presence on the scene, but you know how twitchy this community is over rumours!

We do not want any rumours. What exactly has the character of a rumour in my statement?

 

[snusmumriken]

We do not want any rumours. What exactly has the character of a rumour in my statement?

I don’t know, that’s my point. What has the character of fact?

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...What has the character of fact?

All of it.

 

[snusmumriken]

All of it.

That’s very easy to type, isn’t it? How do you know, and how can we know that you know?

Are there any statements from Kodak or Ilford, or any from Tetenal other than the one that starts this thread?

 

[Craig]

Of course one roll is not economic but if you bought 10 plus some other things it can easily be already cost effective.

Agree, just pointing out that the 36 EUR is the starting price for shipping and it goes up from there. I don't always need to make a large order, so the cost of shipping can be a significant part of the total price.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

I don’t know, that’s my point. What has the character of fact?

Everything. If you doubt something from my original statement ask specifically. If you say you doubt everything I cannot take this serious and would not know how to answer. If you want to know more about Tetenal´s cease of production follow the links in this very thread given by others.
The only thing I can come up with to clarify is that I never said Ilford chemicals will not be produced any longer. I simply said that a lot is currently unavailable because the largest manufacturer of photochemicals has gone out of business and thus we cannot catch up with all demand.
The reason I started this thread is to calm customers down and reassure them all will be good moving on.
But all of this is written there.

 

[snusmumriken]

Everything. If you doubt something from my original statement ask specifically. If you say you doubt everything I cannot take this serious and would not know how to answer. If you want to know more about Tetenal´s cease of production follow the links in this very thread given by others.
The only thing I can come up with to clarify is that I never said Ilford chemicals will not be produced any longer. I simply said that a lot is currently unavailable because the largest manufacturer of photochemicals has gone out of business and thus we cannot catch up with all demand.
The reason I started this thread is to calm customers down and reassure them all will be good moving on.
But all of this is written there.

I think you and I need to de-escalate our dialogue. I have no argument with you. I’m glad of your reassurance about Adox supplies, and have no doubt that you have inside-the-industry knowledge.

But I did specifically ask how we know that Ilford and Kodak are affected?

However due to the unavailability of Ilford, Kodak, Tetenal and others

In the UK, this is not yet apparent. You tell us that it is coming, but we only have your word for that. Is there any further indication from those manufacturers?

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

I think you and I need to de-escalate our dialogue. I have no argument with you. I’m glad of your reassurance about Adox supplies, and have no doubt that you have inside-the-industry knowledge.

But I did specifically ask how we know that Ilford and Kodak are affected?

In the UK, this is not yet apparent. You tell us that it is coming, but we only have your word for that. Is there any further indication from those manufacturers?

Tetenal manufactured all chemicals for Ilford, Kodak and other brands at least for Europe. Their manufacturing was ceased in November. This means here in Europe everyone who has bought from Tetenal before is currently selling from stock until new manufacturing sources have been found. I am not telling anything less or anything more. This means I am also not specualating about future availability of certain brands in certain markets. Here in Germany many chems are out and because of this we face a sharp increase in demand of chemicals because we can (usually) still ship and if not remanufacture. But it is to much. We do not have enough manuafcturing power to replace Tetenal. So for us it is also important that other sources step in and supply e.g. to Ilford again. Kodak photochemicals are a more difficult story if you chip in the most recent news about Sino Promise. This should be dealt with in a different thread and in a different forum though as it is not really ADOX related.

 

[snusmumriken]

Tetenal manufactured all chemicals for Ilford, Kodak and other brands at least for Europe. Their manufacturing was ceased in November. This means here in Europe everyone who has bought from Tetenal before is currently selling from stock until new manufacturing sources have been found. I am not telling anything less or anything more. This means I am also not specualating about future availability in certain markets. Here in Germany many things are out and because of this we face a sharp increase in demand of chemicals because we can (usually) still ship and if not remanufacture. But it is to much. We do not have enough manuafcturing power to replace Tetenal. So for us it is also important that other sources step in and supply e.g. to Ilford again. Kodak photochemicals are a more difficult story if you chip in the most recent news about Sino Promise. This should be dealt with in a different thread and in a different forum.

So is it the demise of Norderstedter Chemiewerke (rather than Tetenal as the dependent company) that has led to all this? I’m sure the dependency of Ilford and Kodak too on this supply chain will be a surprise to many here. As consumers we just go by the label on the bottle.

Does/could Adox have the production capacity to absorb their former role?

 

[BAC1967]

Doesn't CPAC Imaging in Thailand make photo chemicals?

CPAC Asia

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

So is it the demise of Norderstedter Chemiewerke (rather than Tetenal as the dependent company) that has led to all this? I’m sure the dependency of Ilford and Kodak too on this supply chain will be a surprise to many here. As consumers we just go by the label on the bottle.

Does/could Adox have the production capacity to absorb their former role?

It is not up to me to disclose deep insight into the legal structure of other companies. Whoever wants to research this can find the informations in the respective registers. The relevant fact for the analog comunity is that the factory which was formerly called Tetenal and had a lot of production capacity and production workers as well as chemists and lab technicians and deep insight into the how to make photochemistry does not exist any longer. It´s a shame and this has certain consequences one of them being the current shortage.

If you read my above post you can see that we as ADOX cannot replace them. But we can assure the supply of our own branded chemicals and this is the purpose of this thread.

 

[snusmumriken]

That's not true apparently. Please have a look at https://dupli.co.uk/ilford-ilfosol-3-500ml or many other Ilford chemistry, see for yourself.
Dupli is the new Tetenal distributor for the UK.
It's padadoxical that in the UK Ilford chemistry begins to be unavailable...

As I mentioned before, Ilford chemicals are still available direct from Ilford Photo themselves. I’ve just bought some as a precaution.

 

[pentaxuser]

Ilford Photo (www.ilfordphoto.com) sells chemistry directly?
Where?

From its own website called Ilfordphoto.com It has been doing this for a good number of years now

pentxuser

 

[removedacct2]

If you read my above post you can see that we as ADOX cannot replace them. But we can assure the supply of our own branded chemicals and this is the purpose of this thread.

actually your initial post is weird because the chemicals you manufacture yourself are for BW but not C41 RA4 you sell on Fotoimpex. These are only in part from the factory in Norderstedt. Fuji x-press kits are produced in Belgium, i don't know about the raw chemicals used in their kit, but is it Norderstedt also? and I always wondered where Hans O. Mahn buy their Digibase/Compard set, I was thinking of Norderstedt or of Calbe but never succeeded in getting an answer.

I appreciate a lot your dedication to analog photography but on the chemical side of reagents for developers, I can make my own Rodinal ersatz at home, and I buy: from Foma, from Kodak (HC110), and mix my owns from metol, hydroquinone, phenidone, natrium and kalium sulfites and sulfates, EDTA, bromide, etc, found at different places like France, Poland, Ukraine, Russia.
Besides, with a registered one-man company just for that sake (in Norway it's a 2000kr one-time fee) , I can get most chemicals from Sigma-Aldrich and Avantor local sales,excepted maybe the trickier CD3. Unless Sigma-Aldrich is going down no problem for BW chemistry.

so I had mixed feeling when reading your thread: for C41 I am very affected by Nordersted closure only if they did provide raw chemistry to Fuji and to Hans O. Mahn. Yet my preferred is the Fuji kit. I hate the Tetenal blix stuff and want the bleach and fixer separate.
But since you don't manufacture colour kits, then no difference in this areas.
And for BW chemicals well, as I have summarized.

 

[MattKing]

Ilford Photo (www.ilfordphoto.com) sells chemistry directly?
Where?

Harman is the UK wholesale distributor for its own Ilford branded products.
In other parts of the world, there are other wholesale distributors.
Harman doesn't retail direct.

 

[MattKing]

From its own website called Ilfordphoto.com It has been doing this for a good number of years now

pentxuser

In the UK, that probably links directly to a retail arm, or a particular retailer.
Here, there is no retail link, because Harman doesn't distribute any product., Amplis (in Canada's case) is the wholesale distributor. In Amplis' case, they sell wholesale to all the other Canadian retailers, and also maintain an internet retail "storefront" as well.

 

[snusmumriken]

Harman is the UK wholesale distributor for its own Ilford branded products.
In other parts of the world, there are other wholesale distributors.
Harman doesn't retail direct.

Matt, the www.ilfordphoto.com website is both a film community focal point and a retail outlet, and is part of Harman as far as I can tell. Check the ‘contact us’ page, for instance.

 

[pentaxuser]

Harman is the UK wholesale distributor for its own Ilford branded products.
In other parts of the world, there are other wholesale distributors.
Harman doesn't retail direct.

I have no knowledge of what Harman does elsewhere but it is a direct retailer to its customers in the U. K. Perhaps you meant exactly what I have said Matt but I thought that I should just add this in case of any confusion and to avoid having Tsubasa replying to my # 48 that Matt King states Harman does not sell direct to any customers

pentaxuser