ADOX C-TEC E-6 3-bath kit now listed at FotoImpex!

[dmtnkl]

Interesting idea.

Despite the former Tetenal Magic Box we've seen offers from the chemistry manufacturers as 1L, 2.5L and 5L kits.
Looks like there has been sufficient demand for them, otherwise the producers would not have offered them.

My personal experience is that most color kit users are doing batch processing at home: They collect their exposed films, and when they have enough for a complete 1L kit for example, they process all at once, in one batch / run.

If 500ml is indeed the perfect volume, fitting the needs of the huge majority of curent users, then the 2.5L and 5L kits might fail in the market in the future.
We will see: If those higher volume kits are still offered in two years, then 500ml has probably not been the perfect size.

Ι bought the bigger kits also. I did so not because they fit my needs, but because there was nothing else more convenient and i didnt want to give my rolls to unreliable labs anymore. I believe several e6 users are in a similar position, they just don't have a better choice.

I also wouldnt mind a 500ml kit being a bit more expensive per roll. And if i need 1L i can still buy 2 500ml kits and keep the second sealed and fresh until the very moment i would need to use it.

 

[dmtnkl]

Do you have reliable data to support your statement? Fotoimpex is the mother company of Adox. As the biggest film online shop in Europe they have the data of how much color negative film their customers buy p.a.
They have certainly looked at this data when they made the decision to start with this 1 litre kit.

I also have bought a lot of e6 film. This does not mean i shoot it immediately. I shoot it slowly and keep a healthy stash in the freezer.

Just because people buy certain amounts of film, doesnt mean they will shoot it fast and promptly need the equivalent amount of chemistry.

I am not against an additional 500ml kit.

I am not against any kind of kit. Just saying that for low volume users, 500ml would be ideal.

 

[dmtnkl]

Thank you for your input. We will consider this.

Wunderbar!

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, I certainly see a place in the market for a larger kit - say 2 liters - packaged as four separate small 500 ml kits.
I'm aware that the cost of four sets of small bottles would be important, but I expect that there would be other economies that would be beneficial.
There might even be further benefits, if some of the components could be re-used for two or four batches of the other components.

 

[ChrisGalway]

Yipee! The ADOX C-TEC E-6 3-bath kit is now in stock at FotoImpex! Can't wait to try this out but I'll have to use up my existing Bellini chemistry first so I won't get to use this new kit until early December.

Thank you Adox.

 

[Nehalem501]

Maybe that's because my day job is in the IT industry, but what I'd like is mode modularity for color chemical kits.

The shelf life and the capacity of the chemicals are different for each bath, and some of the baths can use the same formulation in either C41 or E6 (bleach and fix for example).

The problem is that it is almost impossible to buy baths separately without having to buy huge professional quantities (like 5L of concentrate solution), which as a hobbyist I would never use before it goes bad. Or it is sold at a very high markup compared to the price of the full kit (looking at you Bellini C41 CD1).

If I knew I could replace parts of a kit once it goes bad without having to re-buy everything, I wouldn't be afraid to buy and start using a kit after shooting just one or two rolls of color film. Also, the parts that go bad faster than the rest should exist in smaller quantities so that I could buy only what I'll use immediately (I'm thinking about the color developer concentrates here).

What I've been doing is waiting until I come up with enough exposed film of a type to buy a kit and then process all the films in one session. The downside is that often this takes up multiple years, and that's really not ideal. My stock of exposed E6 films has some shot as long as 3 years ago, and I'm still nowhere near 12 films...

I don't mind processing films with the longer version of the process (3 bath C41 and 6 bath E6), if it means maximizing product use in the long term (i.e. taking into account how long the products can still be used after being opened or mixed). As someone said above, if you shoot a dozen of rolls of film per year of different types of films (let's say a mix of B&W and color neg / positive), it will be hard to use the kits to their full capacity. Color chemicals are not that cheap.

For the problem about the number of bottles in the box, could some baths be packaged in powdered form instead?

I have a dream where the hobbyist color chemical kits are both modular and cost effective.

 

[ChrisGalway]

Maybe that's because my day job is in the IT industry, but what I'd like is mode modularity for color chemical kits.

The shelf life and the capacity of the chemicals are different for each bath, and some of the baths can use the same formulation in either C41 or E6 (bleach and fix for example).

The problem is that it is almost impossible to buy baths separately without having to buy huge professional quantities (like 5L of concentrate solution), which as a hobbyist I would never use before it goes bad. Or it is sold at a very high markup compared to the price of the full kit (looking at you Bellini C41 CD1).

If I knew I could replace parts of a kit once it goes bad without having to re-buy everything, I wouldn't be afraid to buy and start using a kit after shooting just one or two rolls of color film. Also, the parts that go bad faster than the rest should exist in smaller quantities so that I could buy only what I'll use immediately (I'm thinking about the color developer concentrates here).

What I've been doing is waiting until I come up with enough exposed film of a type to buy a kit and then process all the films in one session. The downside is that often this takes up multiple years, and that's really not ideal. My stock of exposed E6 films has some shot as long as 3 years ago, and I'm still nowhere near 12 films...

I don't mind processing films with the longer version of the process (3 bath C41 and 6 bath E6), if it means maximizing product use in the long term (i.e. taking into account how long the products can still be used after being opened or mixed). As someone said above, if you shoot a dozen of rolls of film per year of different types of films (let's say a mix of B&W and color neg / positive), it will be hard to use the kits to their full capacity. Color chemicals are not that cheap.

For the problem about the number of bottles in the box, could some baths be packaged in powdered form instead?

I have a dream where the hobbyist color chemical kits are both modular and cost effective.

I think that's great ideal, but honestly I can't see it happening. The reality is, if you only shoot a few rolls of E6 a year, say less than 6-8, you might as well send them off to a lab for processing, or just take the financial hit of not using the one-litre kits to their potential. The suggestion made by dmtnkl of 500ml kits might reduce the pain a little, but a 500ml is probably going to be at least 70% of the price of a one-litre kit, probably more.

I shoot around 25-30 rolls of Provia 100f a year, and buy roughly 3 one-litre (Adox/Tetenal or Bellini) kits a year. It is slightly cheaper for me doing my own processing, but I do not do it only on cost grounds: the pleasure of seeing those beautiful slides when you extract the film from the processing reels makes it all worth it!

 

[koraks]

huge professional quantities (like 5L of concentrate solution), which as a hobbyist I would never use before it goes bad

As a hobbyist, I've been doing exactly this with C41 for years and it works just fine. It doesn't go bad as fast as you appear to believe. I sometimes don't shoot any color for many weeks. Then maybe one roll a week, if that. It's rare for me to process more than 1 roll at a time; happens maybe once a year, max. I buy Fuji minilab chemistry; if stored properly it lasts for years. I've never had to discard anything. The bleach is virtually indestructible, the working strenght developer lasts 2+ years in my experience and the fix lasts long as well plus can be used for b&w prints and film as well. Overall it's super cost efficient and convenient.

 

[paddycook]

As a hobbyist, I've been doing exactly this with C41 for years and it works just fine. It doesn't go bad as fast as you appear to believe. I sometimes don't shoot any color for many weeks. Then maybe one roll a week, if that. It's rare for me to process more than 1 roll at a time; happens maybe once a year, max. I buy Fuji minilab chemistry; if stored properly it lasts for years. I've never had to discard anything. The bleach is virtually indestructible, the working strenght developer lasts 2+ years in my experience and the fix lasts long as well plus can be used for b&w prints and film as well. Overall it's super cost efficient and convenient.

Where do you buy it?

 

[koraks]

Where do you buy it?

Wherever I can get it from. These days I use a local retailer who has been offering this because I suggested it. Previously I used to use a different one that catered mostly to small minilabs. Neither source is active in the US.

 

[Nehalem501]

Where in Europe could I find this Fuji minilab chemistry? Does it exist also for E6? Do you have some tips for keeping the developer for multiple years? Is it easy to test if it has gone bad? Do you know the capacity for each type of bath?

 

[koraks]

Where in Europe could I find this Fuji minilab chemistry?

E.g.

https://fotofilmfabriek.nl/

EASYMEDAL LIMITED

www.easymedal.de

And many others.

Does it exist also for E6?

Yes. See product list here: https://www.originalphotopaper.com/en/product/photo-chemical/e6-professional-lab/
Or contact FujiFilm directly to inquire after their products (but they're used to dealing with business users, not private individuals): https://www.fujifilm.com/ffbe/en/contact

Do you have some tips for keeping the developer for multiple years?

Refer to this:

Who’s afraid of cyan, yellow and magenta? Using color C41 and RA4 chemistry at home – Koraks tinkers

tinker.koraks.nl

It doesn't address E6. I got out of E6 years ago.

Is it easy to test if it has gone bad?

Yes and no. Testing as such could potentially be done with test strips, but for C41 film, it's fairly easy to see whether the chemistry is still good:
* The developer should be very pale yellow (nearly colorless). If it's brown or even purple (without it being used), it's no longer usable. Used developer will always take on the color of several dyes in the film that release during processing.
* Bleach: I've never heard of this going bad. I honestly don't see how you could kill it unless you specifically tried by adding random stuff to it.
* Fixer: the concentrate should be clear as water.
For E6, it's similar; developers should be very light-colored or colorless.

Do you know the capacity for each type of bath?

Replenishment rates are listed in the technical bulletins of the FujiFilm products. From the replenishment rates, you can approximate single-use capacity. I'd err on the side of caution especially with E6 film. With C41 you have more leeway.

In all honesty, for E6 I'd strongly consider sticking with the Adox chemistry referred to in the first post, unless you process *a lot* of E6 at home. For C41, my personal choice is with FujiFilm for reasons of economy, although again the Adox product is likely a great choice from a quality viewpoint.

 

[dickgillberg]

As I just bought the Adox C-TEC E-6 box from Fotoimpex and I'm a complete beginner in develop my own slide film. I live in Sweden and the labs does not do it or they have two month waiting time to get a film developed for a price of €24. So of course I want to develop my self. But. I can't find any manual in English only in German. It did not come with any manual at all. I can't find it on Adox site.
How do I begin?

 

[ChrisGalway]

There is a Manual on the FotoImpex website

https://www.fotoimpex.com/shop/images/products/media/70665_5_PDF-Datasheet.pdf

(It's too large to upload to Photrio!)

 

[ChrisGalway]

And to give some advice:

1. Make sure that the solutions are at the correct (high) temperature, especially the first developer.

2. I would start with the least important film you have as you'll need to experiment with the 1st Developer time. For my set-up (temperatures, agitation, exposure accuracy of film), I find that Provia 100 needs at least 7:15 mins, not 6:15 mins.

3. I typically do 5-6 films in 500ml of working solution over a few days, then use the remainder of the concentrate within 6-8 weeks. I give 15sec more in the 1st Dev for each successive film.

 

[dickgillberg]

There is a Manual on the FotoImpex website

https://www.fotoimpex.com/shop/images/products/media/70665_5_PDF-Datasheet.pdf

(It's too large to upload to Photrio!)

Wow, thank you! I surely missed that. And thanks for the tip. I'll going get it a try. Is there any recommendations for continues agitation? I'm going to use my new AGO film processor.

 

[ChrisGalway]

Wow, thank you! I surely missed that. And thanks for the tip. I'll going get it a try. Is there any recommendations for continues agitation? I'm going to use my new AGO film processor.

Then I think you'll definitely have to experiment a bit. I decided against getting an AGO processor (it was tempting) because of the temperature decrease after pouring in the E6 chemicals (especially the 1st Dev) ... yes, they "compensate" but what about the colour balance? Starting around 38deg (I usually start around 38.5deg) will result in a substantial temperature drop over the nominal 6-8 mins of 1st Dev time.

My Adox E6 kit arrives this week, but I still have a 6-bath Bellini kit in the cupboard which I'll use first ... so I'm not going to learn how the new Adox E6 kit works until next Spring probably. I would be very interested to learn of your Adox E6 results with the AGO!

 

[paddycook]

Then I think you'll definitely have to experiment a bit. I decided against getting an AGO processor (it was tempting) because of the temperature decrease after pouring in the E6 chemicals (especially the 1st Dev) ... yes, they "compensate" but what about the colour balance? Starting around 38deg (I usually start around 38.5deg) will result in a substantial temperature drop over the nominal 6-8 mins of 1st Dev time.

My Adox E6 kit arrives this week, but I still have a 6-bath Bellini kit in the cupboard which I'll use first ... so I'm not going to learn how the new Adox E6 kit works until next Spring probably. I would be very interested to learn of your Adox E6 results with the AGO!

I use my AGO for E6 starting at 39 degrees. I see only a 2 degree temperature drop for FD as long as the tank is properly pre warmed.

 

[ChrisGalway]

I use my AGO for E6 starting at 39 degrees. I see only a 2 degree temperature drop for FD as long as the tank is properly pre warmed.

That's good. How long you do give the 1st Dev in the AGO, and for which film? With my hand agitation in a Paterson tank, I find Provia 100f 120 size needs at least 7:15mins in fresh solution.

 

[paddycook]

That's good. How long you do give the 1st Dev in the AGO, and for which film? With my hand agitation in a Paterson tank, I find Provia 100f 120 size needs at least 7:15mins in fresh solution.

I give Fuji films 30 seconds more in 1st developer. I use Arista E6 so all the times are extended after the first batch & then I add the additional margin if Fuji. And of course I never mix Kodak and Fuji in the same batch.

 

[dickgillberg]

I use my AGO for E6 starting at 39 degrees. I see only a 2 degree temperature drop for FD as long as the tank is properly pre warmed.

I'll give it a try soon. Should I pre varm the tank dry or with water in it with the film?

 

[ChrisGalway]

The Adox E-6 instructions say use warm water.

Interestingly, the Bellini instructions say do not use water, but warm the tank dry (I use a heavy weight to keep the air-filled tank in the warm water bath). I asked them about this, and they repeated: warm the tank dry.

I'd follow the instructions with the kit you have. The Adox instructions are excellent and very clear.

 

[loccdor]

Pre-ordered the kit at Freestyle in California a month ago, still waiting.

 

[paddycook]

I'll give it a try soon. Should I pre varm the tank dry or with water in it with the film?

I just follow the instructions of whatever kit I'm using. Some have a pre bath, others say to heat it dry. For dry heating I just put my sealed tank in with the Sous Vide.

 

[loccdor]

I got word from Freestyle that the Adox E-6 kit will be available there January 17th of next year.