A/NZ PX Round #14 - Comments and Feedback

[hoffy]

You do realise they are going by a circular trip on a postie bike to Melbourne, via Perth, Darwin, Townsville, Brisbane and Melbourne, to be put on an Aussie Post rowboat to slowly zig zag across the pacific......

 

[Kevin Caulfield]

I received my set of prints this afternoon. Thank you, everybody. I will make some comments soon, but just very impressed with the standard.

 

[Ozxplorer]

You do realise they are going by a circular trip on a postie bike to Melbourne, via Perth, Darwin, Townsville, Brisbane and Melbourne, to be put on an Aussie Post rowboat to slowly zig zag across the pacific......

Hopefully the Gold Coast stop is not after the drop off to Andy’s neck of the woods! Sorry Andy... couldn’t miss the opportunity!

 

[House]

I'm sure the prints are fantastic, but I must say as somebody new to all this I'm excited to see the variety of paper stocks. I spent a decent amount of time thinking about what paper to start with. I'm glad I didn't start with 8x10 fibre based paper. I wasted a lot of paper making test prints and as a result of lapses in concentration.

 

[Oxleyroad]

Hopefully the Gold Coast stop is not after the drop off to Andy’s neck of the woods! Sorry Andy... couldn’t miss the opportunity!

I expect the postie in Oz to have to delay the my package as it is nearly Christmas, and then the USPS here will look at he package in the new year and wonder just how quickly do I need to deliver this...

We'll see.

 

[House]

I've just received my prints, and I'm very impressed with them all.

 

[hoffy]

Excellent. I'm glad to see that they are making it to their intended destinations.

Just one thing before I forget. Be careful with the envelopes and the pre-paid postage that you use. I can't recall who or which one, but the eyebrows were raised when I dropped them in at the post office, as one of the envelopes was bigger than the template for a document package, for which the postage was paid for. I have to admit that I was a bit horrified when the girl behind the counter started folding over the envelope to tape it up to fit...... "There are photos in there!". I do think it was OK (I very highly doubt that she would have easily folded the photo packages over!).

Cheers

 

[Michael W]

My parcel was delivered this morning. Thanks to Hoffy for his work in coordinating this. I agree with others who have noted the general high standard of the work. I also like the diversity of subject matter, cameras, film, developers, and paper used.

 

[Ozxplorer]

Good news... my set of prints arrived this morning! Thanks to all - particularly Hoffy for coordinating this round! Looking forward to a coffee and time with your images... take care!

 

[SMBooth]

I think the stand out is a hand written sheet from House.

 

[chiller]

So what is the protocol from this point on? I'm not interested personally to hear " You could have" or "That bit bothers me" or similar comments. However constructive questions as to why a photograph was made and reasons for the approach you took could be very enlightening. There are so many images in the collection that I'm finding intriguing. Images I could technically shoot, but on the other hand images I probably may never consider shooting - because I don't necessarily see that way.
When you are viewing the works consider getting an incident meter or a grey card and adjust your light source to between 7.0 and 8.5 EV and you will get an even better appreciation of the prints. This is an accepted illumination level standard for normal black and white display prints in an exhibition. Mind you many galleries don't follow that light level and prints are often dull and muddy looking.
Steve

 

[Ozxplorer]

I'm not interested personally to hear " You could have" or "That bit bothers me" or similar comments.

Yet, if each member of the print exchange chooses to comment on yours and others art being part of the portfolio (please do... it - whatever is said adds to our knowledge base) by making, in their opinion, an open honest appraisal plus commentary of the images inclusive of any compositional, technical and generalised critical appreciation terminology then this may be of value to the group membership as whole? Obviously in the event of any commentary made about your art which is of no interest to you may well still be of value/interest to another... For this reason it seems a little disingenuous of you to attempt to curtail and/or even direct the free exchange of opinion and comment albeit possibly of no interest and/or value to you! I look forward to sharing my art, knowledge plus learning from another’s perspective that is why I participate...

 

[chiller]

You think of it how you wish. I am not interested in peer review of how "they" would take a particular shot when "they" have no idea what the purpose of any photography is. I am not deluded enough to think of anything I do as art but I am invested in what I do. Most peer review while intending to be constructive rarely has that result. But we will see.

"For this reason it seems a little disingenuous of you to attempt to curtail and/or even direct the free exchange of opinion and comment albeit possibly of no interest and/or value to you!"

You do not know me or my history in photography so your statement "Ozexplorer" almost smacks of the pot calling the kettle black.

As I said, and I emphasise "me", "I" singular personal pronoun - "I'm not interested personally to hear " You could have" or "That bit bothers me" or similar comments."
Those are not critique, they are typical camera club style comments. They are criticism. There is a difference.
However if someone would like to know why I did what I did I can explain and if that isn't borne out in the image then I'm more than happy to learn from any constructive comments.

Quite seriously anyone who does not want to have me ask questions on their work let me know. I will respect that completely.

I am really not concerned if anyone is offended by my stating my position on how comments are to be given. It is how I feel about it. You can and possibly will feel different. I don't mind comments but comments or questions based on just "I think" are as useful as [insert your favourite expression].

As an example there is none of the work presented that isn't top quality work, that hopefully would be expected so I will need to understand why and how aphotographer approached his image before giving any comment. I do not consider I have much to offer beyond that.

 

[munz6869]

Well, I'll have a crack at each picture, in 'as opened' order:

'Dicey' - I've always enjoyed Hoffy's auto detail snaps, and, as a chronic user of RC papers, I'm glad to see a few others doing it, and printing them well (and with a strong border). Focus seems exactly where it ought to be, and the SQAi format a nice nod to the die.
'Once was a Velocette' - the beautiful lighting and tone of this remind me of my favourite 'op shop' 50's photo books... in fact, this is (in a delightful way) like an illustration from a Popular Mechanics article of that era gone horribly wrong (with a little nod to Wolfgang Sievers' 'Gears of Industry!)
'The Bay' - I get into trouble when I include so much foreground in landscapes (and I get into trouble often), so it's pleasing for me to see Kevin doing it! In this case the detailed foreground (what ARE those things?!) is like a completely different world to the castle-like architecture above. And little specular highlights here and there are like holes of light, desperately poking through that even English light. Thanks goodness for the cars, otherwise this picture would be 'undateable'!
'Girl on Train' - beautiful subtle light and soft composition matched by the satin paper choice. The snippet of visible knitted jumper texture just in the plane of focus makes everything work just so. Indoor/Outdoor exposure conundrum very cleverly sorted.
'Interface' - Shane is consistently my favourite photographer that I know 'in real life', and it helps he's photographed something a few metres from my own picture, only MUCH better (dammit). The pre-visualisation of the sea water movement vs the permananence of the rocks is soo clever, and the composition brill.
'Sculptures@Docklands, Melbourne' - if ever a picture said visually 'yay!... I've had many a crack at photographing in Docklands and I've struggled to find anything not banal or anything with a bit of life to it. To me it's a bit of a public architecture failure and it's probably that mindset that contributes to my own unseeing of dynamic snaps like this one. The backlighting on the sculptures is great - just how you would light dancers in theatre or film, wrapping light around limbs from behind to create a sense of movement and spatial separation!
'Muscle Car Dashboard' - as a former V8 owner (albeit a Rover - don't judge!), and a mildly reformed bogan, what's not to love here? Focus is where it ought to be (on the aftermarket rev counter!!), the dark tones exactly suit the vehicle era, and it's YOUR car (dammit!)
'Unwanted Sparkling Red' - who ARE these philistines?! Who leaves... never mind. What a masterful still life, in timeless toning and grain, with great little highlights and an eye-centering geometry.
'Two prints' - These are like the 'mystery house' from 'Escape to the Country' - that unexpected reveal at the end of the show. Printing old negatives is something I imagine doing in at some point in life - both my own and those I've saved from destruction over the years. It's 'so 1982' somehow - and printed really sympathetically to that time. I'm a big fan of HP5+ too and it's very cool to see that kind of test. I actually like the contrast of both of them, and it would end up depending on mood or a larger narrative of the picture which to choose.

Marc!

 

[chiller]

Thanks Marc.

 

[Michael W]

I'll just mention that on Wednesday night I showed all the prints to four people who are reasonably new to the darkroom but very keen. They were fascinated to look through the prints and see the various approaches. I suggested to them to search out this forum and thread and perhaps participate in future exchanges. I think they could all see the value in this.

 

[Oxleyroad]

Thanks Marc for your thoughts. I tried to make extra effort this round for a picture that I thought would grab the eye of the veiwer and make a print that was the best I can do. There was a lot of paper that was exposed, developed and did not make the cut as I scratched the wet print. Since removed the offending molding flash off the bottom of my develoing tray. I've done lith prints many times in the past but just not been able to find a good paper anymore to get the results I am used to. When I found this old pack of AGFA Brovia grade 3 I could not believe my luck. Had to throw out a good number of sheets as there was bad fogging on them, but the rest of the paper has been fine.

Michael. I participate in the APUG (sorry PHOTRIO) postcard exchange and I leave the postcard photos where visitors to my house easily see them. It is a great discussion starter.

As for comments, I am hapy for anyone to tell me what they like/don't like or what they'd have done differently as it'll make think for next time. If in your opinion I have done a poor job tell me, and what the areas are for what you'd have done differently. Nothing will be taken personally, all will be taken contructively.

 

[hoffy]

Thanks for the comments Marc. Interesting take on the square format, which I must admit, I never considered. I shoot a lot in square as it’s a format that I personally like (Maybe I am a closet hipster after all, as I sit here in my retro bowling shirt.... I don't have a man bun or a beard).

As for the critique. Please excuse me if I go off on a tangent here.... I actually do have a bit to say about it.

I'll start with a TL; DR - Give critique as you feel fit. Be thick skinned about it, but don't be condescending to others. Useful constructive criticism is hard and there is quite an art to getting it right.

Right, here goes. I was a member of a Photo club (I won't call it a camera club - the club I was a member of was reasonably good in that aspect) for 8 years, for which I was a member of the committee for 7 years. I joined, because I wanted to socially interact with those who enjoy photography. When I joined, myself and a friend of mine, both of us at the time in our late 30's, were pretty much the youngest members. We had a grand delusion that we would learn and enjoy showing and talking about photos.

Pretty quick I learned that competitions were the main reason these clubs existed. I thought, sure, why not. I can learn from these as well. It was an excuse to turn digital photos into prints (I wasn't shooting film at that point). The first few competitions came and went and everything was grand. Heck, I even got a few 10's.

But, one day I put up an image that I thought was one of my best for it to be given a score of 1 (if you look up my post history, I'm sure you will find it mentioned more than once......). At that point it became blindingly obvious to me that Photo competitions are about 1) immediate impact and 2) the judges preconceived set of rules. There is no interpretation. There is no big picture (no pun intended).

Ever since that point, photo contests meant nothing to me. Sure, I did them, but in general, the feedback meant very little to me at all. I decided that in general terms, I knew my own vision and I knew the images that pleased me.

So, what am I trying to say? At some point, as photographers, we must decide what we like, what our vision is and how it applies to the personal photography that we pursue. This is why, in a broad sense, I totally understand Chillers point of view and to a degree, I feel it applies to me. Sure, I am open to suggestions, but quite often, the feedback I have gotten over the years is at odds with what I saw and what I tried to photograph. Yes, feel free to make comments on my photos and make suggestions, but I am not going to agree with you every time.

As for giving critique, I have found over the years people respond to suggestions better then directions when it comes to creative endeavours.

As for why I hung around for another 7 or so years is another long story. A core group of us tried to expand the way photo clubs work (or ours specifically), but ultimately in the end, there is a culture so ingrained that it is near impossible to alter. In itself, there is nothing wrong with that - it just means that they are not for me.

Cheers and game on folks!

 

[Ozxplorer]

Well, I'll have a crack at each picture, in 'as opened' order:

Marc... thank you! Glad you recognised some of the photo possibilities a visit to Docklands can deliver! I confess asking Hoffy to destroy my initial submission of prints as, on having second thoughts about my printing, I recognised I had incorrectly interpreted the scene and thus I needed to redo the prints... Nevertheless, the image remains a pleasing record of my last trip to Melbourne. I’ll be back in April ‘18 - sigh, another PeterMac sojourn!

 

[hoffy]

Seasons Greetings Folks!

Just a quick check in to see if we have all got our prints (except for possibly Andy.)

And, if we are all happy, I am going to kick off signup for the next round in January.

 

[Nige]

yep, got 'em

 

[Oxleyroad]

Mine arrived boxing day. have looked at a couple of times now and will wait until the family has gone out before I lay them all out and take note of all of them before I comment in detail. All look great and I enjoyed reading the detail behind each.

 

[Oxleyroad]

Happy new year to you all. Here is my take in these pictures all very good and I appreciate the stories provided with each. I was surprised (though I don't know why) that 35mm film was in the minority as the source of the negative. Three prints from 4x5 cameras, 4 prints off 120 format and 3 off 35mm format. I need to pull out one of my unusual formats for the next round (assuming I am permitted to participate next round). All prints but one seemed to my eye to be printed on RC paper - or do I need to be corrected. Half printed on glossy and the other half on something else.

Dicey - hoffy. I like a square image and being involved in the auto industry I also happen to have a soft spot for cars. I really like this image in how it draws me into the subject of the dice. The depth of field was spot on about the dice. Was this a hand held picture?

Muscle Car Dashboard - Nige. The last time I met up with you Nige it was to look at your gear as I was considering the purchase of a kit just like yours. Back then you had mentioned to me that you did not have the ability to print from your negs. Well this situation has obviously changed. I see in your car the CD player has replaced the original vehicle radio... For the better of course. The title works well with the print in that the dash and tacho are clearly the point of focus in the image. Was there any dodging or burning in this print?

Girl on Train - House. I used a laundry room for about 5 years before I was able to move sufficient gear out of my garage and set it up as a darkroom without running water, not ideal as I did all the running and I could only work at night. I like the image as in my eyes it has a calming effect. I also appreciate the effort you have gone to hand write out the details of the print. Did you have any difficulties printing off the colour neg?

Once was a Velocette - chiller. This print would be amazing at 16x20 or bigger. I wish I had the gear to be able to focus on still life like this but I don't. I am impressed by the way your Agfa film has performed and that it was developed in home brew. When I read about your home brew I went about looking for it and had no luck. Would you share your process for making it?

Man and make-up, House on HP5+ - Michael W. The print of your friends neg works really well on this paper. Good choice. Who was this friend of yours? The house on HP5+ with 2 stop exposure difference. You've nailed the developers for each exposure rating of the film. Even though these are contact prints I can't see grain even when using a loupe.

The Bay - Kevin Caulfield. Kevin, as soon as I saw you print I knew it was Robin Hood's bay. I must have stood in about the same spot with the tide out in Jan 1987 when I was 17. Unfortunately my photos never worked as I failed to wind my film on correctly and the film in my camera never advanced then after 38 or 39 shots I figured something was amiss. Only then did I learn what the problem was, but in true form I looked at the bright side and loaded the film correctly and got 35 pictures of other places in North Yorkshire. I did not know there was a walk from one coast to the other up there in the north of England so thanks for this bit of info.

Interface - SMBooth. Great picture that had me looking at it many times over several days. I even brought it out and asked guests to my place what they thought. A resounding Wow! I got everything from why do I have a picture of an oil slick to why is the fog only on one side of the mountain range. I like the paper it is printed on with the 1/2" boarder, but I want to know have you printed or thought of printing on glossy RC paper as I am curious to know how the print would change?

Cape Conran, Cowrie Bay - Munz6869. Marc would I be correct in assuming you and Shane were at Cape Conran on an outing together? If you were not what are the chances of two prints from the same location coming from two different people o this small print exchange. What made you frame this image?

Sculptures @ Docklands, Melbourne - OZXPLORER. Fred I have to admit that I have been down to the docklands o many an occasion and I was there as recently as mid Novemeber this year and I have no recollection of these sculptures. Maybe they were a changing exhibit... You say you over developed the film in Microphen 1+3 for 32" (seconds) at 20degC. I could not control development for such a short time no matter how hard I try. Did you mean 32' minutes?

I have to thank everyone for another great exchange. One where I have the wonderful problem of working out how I display and store these prints for all my guests to look at and comment on. I could not find in any print signs of dust, scratches or hairs which is truly a sign everyone has worked their hardest to show their best prints. For my work, I think I am being very lazy if I produce a print that shows evidence of these marks and I have not tried to correct these marks either before printing or after. So I think these are all very good work.

Any thoughts when the next exchange might be?

 

[munz6869]

Yup, Shane and I were both down at Cape Conran at exactly the same time for a ‘Friends of Photography Group’ outing. Next time I might ring him before I start printing ;-)

Marc!!

 

[Oxleyroad]

Yup, Shane and I were both down at Cape Conran at exactly the same time for a ‘Friends of Photography Group’ outing. Next time I might ring him before I start printing ;-)

Marc!!