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A Kodachrome type film formula!

Without using the three color couplers, and run the complete K-14 process, is it possible getting a good quality Black and White slides?
 
Micheal ,

I did not check their correctness , PE published the couplers and developers at other thread today.
Did you check them ? If you want to give link to another forum , use Photo Engineer posts.
Finding the correct chemical is easy if you have money.

Umut
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Michael;

You understand the re-exposure correctly!

bwfans;

If you run the Kodachrome process without couplers, you get clear blank film!

PE
 
Photo Engineer said:
Michael;

You understand the re-exposure correctly!
Click to expand...

OK, please bear with me a little. Let's move away from reexposure for a moment and look at the color development steps. I'll come back to the reexposure later.

Remember this thread from two years ago? (Do not think I've taken my eye off the ball on this. Resources, not dedication, are the issue. I have to earn a living to eat, and I'm a big guy so eating is important.)

========
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

There we spoke about using three pieces of panchromatic film with tri-color filters.
========

Now, back to my list of steps for home processing the thousands of Found Kodachrome rolls which will appear over the next years:

05) red/cyan develop (Mustafa has tracked down the coupler chemicals, but we don't know exact process yet.)

08) blue/yellow develop (Again, Mustafa has tracked down the coupler chemicals, but we don't know exact process yet.)

11) green/magenta develop (And again, Mustafa has tracked down the chemicals, but we don't know exact process yet.)


>>>>>Here's the questions!<<<<<
Is it reasonable to believe that we can "practice" on steps 05, 08, and 11 with the couplers to gain an understanding of how those steps will work using ordinary panchromatic sheets of a tri-color separation? Specifically, will learning to get the couplers to form the appropriate dyes in an inexpensive piece of Arista EDU also tell us how to work that step so that it correctly forms the dyes in K64? Or at least gives us a fair starting point even if it's not exactly correct?

Specifically, for each research trial, we'll make three exposures through separation filters, process the three in E6 first developer, then separate them so that we can learn the chemistry requirements for the three color development steps without cluttering up the experiments with the necessity of being extremely careful with the red and blue reexposure. Finally we'll put them back together for the rest of the E6 process.

I suspect that using this scheme we can simply fog each without regard to light cross contamination since the blue/yellow sheet and the green/magenta sheet will not be in the chemicals with the red/cyan sheet during the red/cyan develop cycle. Likewise for the other two, the absence of the other sheets during the specific color development step makes the reexposure of the sheet of interest merely a matter of fogging rather than controlling it tightly. Do I understand this?
 
Michael;

In practice at EK, we do work with what amounts to B&W single layer coatings. The problem is that a multilayer version acts differently due to diffusion. That bugaboo changes everything. The end result though is that whatever you do with whatever process and coating, your final result will be OK if you can produce a neutral step wedge from a 3 color exposure.

PE
 


Am I correct in the assumption that by isolating the three color development steps from one another I can simply totally fog the sheet for each step without concern for the reexposure, thereby removing that variable from those experiments?

MB
 
Michael;

If it is an integral tripack, then you cannot fog the sheet. If you use separation exposures on 3 sheets of B&W film, then you can fog the sheet.

PE
 
Toasting in potentially epic bread!

This is actually quite interesting, it's starting to look as though kodachrome may become a cottage industry.
 
happyjam64 said:
Toasting in potentially epic bread!

This is actually quite interesting, it's starting to look as though Kodachrome may become a cottage industry.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that one could say Kodachrome per se will become a cottage industry. But certainly hand processing Found Kodachrome is possible even if difficult.

I think the best option would be http://www.kodachromeproject.com/forum/showthread.php?t=674 over at the Kodachrome Project.

But that might be more than can actually get done. And anything we're doing here can only help his effort as well. Kittlegraphy has got to get the chemicals, and helping figure those out can only provide support to get his machine going.

(Kind of ironic, to process Found Kodachrome on a Found K-Lab.)

I wonder about his volume requirement, however. Finding 25 rolls to process at a time might be easy the first year - once word gets out that you can still do it. But after that I think it will dribble in one or two rolls at a time for several years. That might be tough to sustain. Remember, there's no more new being made.

As far as duplicating Kodachrome emulsion in a home darkroom goes, well sure, anything is possible. But it's going to be fraught with failures and cost a lot. PE estimated no better than a 20% yield, and I think he's being kind. I doubt you could get 5 out of 100 good coating passes until you had spent yourself and your children into debt for life. Maybe if you will the lottery you'd have enough money to get it right.

As many also know, Kodakchrome is a B&W film, not a color film, so technically a modern manufacturer like Ilford could coat a replacement. But the R&D would make it unprofitable. Remember, it's already fail with Kodak.

TerryM has stated that he's working with someone to coat a new version, and I wish him all the luck in the world. If it goes well, not only will Kittlegraphy have feed stock for his K-lab, but I expect many would do home development exactly as we're talking about here. While it's more involved that E6, it isn't that much more involved, or at least so it seems.
 
Photo Engineer said:
Michael;

If it is an integral tripack, then you cannot fog the sheet. If you use separation exposures on 3 sheets of B&W film, then you can fog the sheet.

PE
Click to expand...

OK, to make the three sheets for simulating the three color layers I need a #25, a #47B, and a #58 filter.

This is correct?

MB
 
If you use 3 sheets for exposure in-camera, you need something like that. For reexposure during processing use just white light.

I had recommended to me the use of a WR98, 99 and 70 filter set for in-camera use and for enlarging using separation. But any good tricolor filter set is OK.

PE
 

I talked to Sandy King, and his suggestion is to use the narrow band filters for separation of existing slides with an enlarger, but use the wider filters - #25, a #47, and a #58 - for in camera separations.

I may not be able to tell the difference, but that's his standard practice.

If nothing else it's a starting point. All I really need for now is three colors to practice with.
 
I am curious about the K-14 process after the initial developer. Watching a news cast that showed the machine at Dwayne's in operation, I saw what looked like film coming out of a yellow dye, and then looping into another tank. If so, does that mean that part of the Kodachrome process could be done in regular light, before the fixer? In other words: Is the initial developer before the color developers the only parts that required total darkness?
 
Darkness is required until the last (magenta) developer. There are 2 re-exposures, red then cyan development and blue then yellow development and then a fog or white light step with magenta development. The 3 color developers are unstable and quickly become highly colored. That is probably what you saw. And if the lights were on for the yellow development,the film was being ruined.

PE
 
It may have been the fogging just before the magenta developer, then. Thanks for clearing that up, PE.

MrCoffee
 
Well, actually, the fogging is done chemically in the magenta developer, but the process could have been light by then.

PE
 
Photo Engineer said:
Well, actually, the fogging is done chemically in the magenta developer, but the process could have been light by then.

PE
Click to expand...

PE - there is an example of alternate K14 processing posted via tumblr.
It is refering to your method mentioned on APUG - these sides here!
Have you noticed it jet?
with regards
 
Kodachrome is gone, let's let it rest in peace and enjoy our memories of it. Sic transit gloria mundi.
 
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