A Kodachrome type film formula!

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Ron ,

Are you one of the patent owners ? Amazing !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Umut

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Head of the above patent cut
Color developing agent of Formula II

No. Color Developing Agent __________________________________________________________________________

1. N-Ethyl-N-methoxyethyl-3-methyl-p-phenylenediamine

2. N-Ethyl-N-methoxybutyl-3-methyl-p-phenylenediamine

3. N-Ethyl-N-ethoxyethyl-3-methyl-p-phenylenediamine

4. N-Ethyl-N-methoxyethyl-3-n-propyl-p-phenylenediamine

5. N-Ethyl-N-methoxyethyl-3-methoxy-p-phenylenediamine --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6. N-Ethyl-N-butoxyethyl-3-methyl-p-phenylenediamine

These and still other developing agents of Formula I are advantageously used as the free base or as salts of organic or inorganic acids. For example, the hydrochloric acid salts, the sulfuric acid salts, the phosphoric acid salts, the oxalic acid salts, p-toluenesulfonic acid salts, the benzene disulfonic acid salts and the naphthalene disulfonic salts are used to advantage in our process.

The color developing agents of Formula I are used advantageously in aqueous alkaline color developer solutions over a wide range of concentrations, with an operable range of from about 0.5 g/l to about 15 g/l and a preferred range of from about 1.0 g/l to about 12.0 g/l. Other addenda used to advantage in these developer compositions include alkali metal chlorides, alkali metal bromides, alkali metal iodides, alkali metal sulfites, alkali metal sulfates, alkali metal carbonates, alkali metal hydroxides, alkali metal metaborates, alkali metal phosphates, ethylenediamine, citrazinic acid, antifogging agents, e.g., 5-nitrobenzimidazole, etc., an auxiliary developing agent, e.g., 1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidones, a stabilizer for developing agents (e.g., diethyl hydroxylamine, dihydroxyacetone, glycolaldehyde, glyceraldehyde, dihydroxymaleic acid, etc., sodium hexametaphosphate, etc.), etc. A typical color developing composition used in our process for a photographic element that contains incorporated couplers is as follows: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Color Developing Composition I

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, you have not given the IUPAC names for the 3 couplers which are in the patent. They are most important!

So, for example, the cyan is: 1-Hydroxy-N-(2-acetamidophenethyl)- 2-naphthamide

The others are given in the Eastman Chemicals Catalog which lists all Kodchrome couplers.

PE

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Ron ,

Now You may survive me from barn mess.

Please tell me , what to do with formula I and what to do with color developing composition I and couplers.

Do I need to use all of these formulas and your solvent formula to get a dry dye ?

May be some can be not used.

And what would be your approximitation of cost to prepare this recipe and how much dry dye does it make ?

How much would be this result amount of dye produce ink jet ink ?

Umut

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Is this catalog available online or do you write here ?

 

[Photo Engineer]

I need to look it up in my library, but the patent gives several coupler formulas.

PE

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

1-Hydroxy-N-(2-acetamidophenethyl)- 2-naphthamide

Is it possible to buy this chemical or others - you will find from library -from market or kodak ?

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I found it.

10 grams cost 130 dollars. Here is the link :http://www.coleparmer.com/1/1/38773-n-2-acetamidophenethyl-1-hydroxy-2-naphthamide-10g.html

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

PE , Please provide kodachrome color coupling agents.

COLE PARMER have an extensive online catalog.

http://www.coleparmer.com/

I am like an festival cowboy , animal wants to bang me to the ground , but every second , I get better control

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Here is the link for color coupling agents ids and their prices from COLE PARMER.

http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/productsearch.asp?search=color+coupling+agents

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

The process of claim 6 in which said yellow color developing composition contains a diffusible acylacetanilide yellow-dye-forming coupler and a color developing agent selected from the class consisting of N-ethyl-N-methoxyethyl-3-methyl-p-phenylenediamine, N-ethyl-N-methoxybutyl-3-methyl-p-phenylenediamine, N-ethyl-N-ethoxyethyl-3-methyl-p-phenylenediamine, N-ethyl-N-methoxyethyl-3-propyl-p-phenylenediamine, N-ethyl-N-methoxyethyl-3-methoxy-p-phenylenediamine and N-ethyl-N-butoxyethyl-3-methyl-p-phenylenediamine.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Ron , I think below list is ok , I could not find cyan chemicl name . Do you accept the list ?

cyan coupler is selected from the class consisting of a phenol and a naphthol; said magenta coupler is a 5-pyrazolone coupler and said yellow coupler is an acylacetacetamide.

yellow :1-Hydroxy-N-(2-acetamidophenethyl)- 2-naphthamide
link :http://www.coleparmer.com/1/1/38773-n-2-acetamidophenethyl-1-hydroxy-2-naphthamide-10g.html

magenta :1-(2,4,6-Trichlorophenyl)-3-(p-nitroanilino)-2-pyrazoline-5-one
link :http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8835888

cyan :acylamino phenols
link :http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=02423730&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D2,423,730.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F2,423,730%2526RS%3DPN%2F2,423,730&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

patent :2423730

google patents :http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=7vJUAAAAEBAJ&dq=2423730

 

[d235j]

It appears that the dye couplers used in Kodachrome K-14 color developers are listed in the Material Safety Data Sheets for the K-Lab chemicals. These can be viewed here:
http://www.siri.org/msds/gn.cgi?query=k-lab
Unfortunately I can't copy and paste right now, or I'd copy the exact dye coupler names. They are quite obvious though.
Edit: maybe I was too quick; looking deeper doesn't make it seem so obvious at all.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

d235j ,

Happy New Year and Welcome to APUG.

Thank you for the tip , They are not obvious for me so the others. So if you know or if you can do something please contribute.

I will read the notes , I hope I would be sure about my research.

Thank you and Very good start to Forum.

Umut

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

http://www.siri.org/msds/gn.cgi?query=K+14M&whole=partial&start=0

K 14M latest kodachrome developer msds

 

[Athiril]

Athiril ,

Try to find using movie films at the camera , threads. There is all formulas available to dissolve the ramjet

I have 4000 ft of movie film. I use it. I dont need a formula, any simple alkaline solution makes it dissolve. For stills in a hand tank, alkaline solution + agitation removes almost all of it, traces are left that can be wipe off after the developer stage. I've even run it through developer without removing remjet first, doesn't stick to the film like people say, it's suspended in developer. If you dont intend to keep/reuse the developer, I haven't found a problem with that.. as long as it's not activated carbon I guess.. which may cause potential issues.. though I doubt it over a short developing time.

Actually Michael, you are not totally wrong. This film will be expensive and labor intensive to make, but covering the development costs will add to the sale price. Then, tack on processing! No, you won't get this for a low low price. A B&W film made by these methods could run as high as $5 per 4x5 sheet.

That is one of the problems of sustaining any analog product. It takes a huge physical plant and a huge staff of trained people even if you are making small runs.

The future may be in hand made products, as I have said before.

PE

That's how much it cost me for Pro 160S in 4x5..

 

[Photo Engineer]

It is interesting to note that all of the MSDS sheets seem to omit the coupler and other major ingredients. It is also interesting that all of these sheets list CD4 as the Color Developer for the yellow layer, but they use CD6 for the yellow color developer. I'll have to look up the couplers I do have.

PE

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Thank you PE ,

I banged my head to the same wall.

Thank you for coupler information promise.


Umut

 

[michaelbsc]

OK, let me ask a few more questions? To recap first:

The red reexposure is done through the base from which the rem-jet was just removed.

The front side must be protected!

The red exposure nominally uses a WR70 red filter, and the intensity and time must be such that the other layers are not fogged.

The blue exposure is also a WR filter, and must be carefully controlled to prevent fogging the green layer.

PE

Refined steps below.

For step 04, do we know the light dose required? And do we know the intensity not to exceed? Is there a lower threshold as well? It seems illogical that one could expose for hours with a very feeble light and expect to get good results.

Or do these values have be determined experimentally?

For step 07, is WR47 the correct blue filter? That's the blue color separation filter.

Likewise, for step 07, do we know the light dose required? And do we know the intensity not to exceed? Is there a lower threshold as well?


Preliminary listing of mechanical steps.

01) Warm bath Akaline wash for rem-jet removal (Athiril understands how to do this. The process may need slight improvement to assure complete removal for the red reexposure to be complete. Speckles are not good.)

01a) Flush to clear clear

02) develop in E6 1st developer

03) wash

04) red reexpose through film base with WR70 filter for X lumen-seconds where lumen(dot) does not exceed Q. Do not allow exposure of emulsion side.

05) red/cyan develop (Mustafa has tracked down the coupler chemicals, but we don't know exact process yet.)

06) wash

07) blue reexpose emulsion side with WR?? filter for Y lumen-seconds where lumen(dot) does not exceed P.

08) blue/yellow develop (Again, Mustafa has tracked down the coupler chemicals, but we don't know exact process yet.)


09) wash

10) fog

11) green/magenta develop (And again, Mustafa has tracked down the chemicals, but we don't know exact process yet.)

12) wash

13-18)then finish with the rest of the E6 process (I'll straighten these steps out later).

 

[Photo Engineer]

Michael;

The blue filter must be narrow. I believe it is a WR98. The time and intensity are critical and differ for each of the 3 Kodachrome films, 25, 64 and 200. The Daylight differs from the Tungsten as well. They must be individually determined but once done it will remain constant. I do not have information on this. GWTW. Sorry.

PE

 

[michaelbsc]

The time and intensity are critical and differ for each of the 3 Kodachrome films, 25, 64 and 200.

As a starting point, is it reasonable to expect that the exposure value for the three speeds are related by their relative ASA speeds. Specifically, if the 200 requires 'X', then the 64 will likely require 1.3*X, and the 25 will require 8*X?

MB

 

[Photo Engineer]

No, you cannot just assume it will work. It might be close though. The first development will change the emulsions ever so slightly. For example, the blue sensitizing dye will probably wash away thereby reducing blue speed. OTOH, the red sensitizing dye is designed to stay in place for the red reexposure. So this will cause some sort of change.

PE

 

[michaelbsc]

No, you cannot just assume it will work. It might be close though. The first development will change the emulsions ever so slightly. For example, the blue sensitizing dye will probably wash away thereby reducing blue speed. OTOH, the red sensitizing dye is designed to stay in place for the red reexposure. So this will cause some sort of change.

PE

Then, likewise, the adjustment between Daylight and Tungsten balanced film reexposures will not be exactly predictable by the relative spectral components of Daylight vs Tungsten light although this may provide a reasonable starting framework for empirical discovery.

Do I understand this correctly?

And, in any case, once one has worked out the necessary exposures for each type they will not change?

 

[d235j]

How does the K-Lab machine precisely re-expose the film? Kittlegraphy over at the Kodachrome Project forums has such a machine; perhaps the necessary data could be obtained from testing with it?

 

[michaelbsc]

Ron , I think below list is ok , I could not find cyan chemicl name . Do you accept the list ?

cyan coupler is selected from the class consisting of a phenol and a naphthol; said magenta coupler is a 5-pyrazolone coupler and said yellow coupler is an acylacetacetamide.

yellow :1-Hydroxy-N-(2-acetamidophenethyl)- 2-naphthamide
link :http://www.coleparmer.com/1/1/38773-n-2-acetamidophenethyl-1-hydroxy-2-naphthamide-10g.html

magenta :1-(2,4,6-Trichlorophenyl)-3-(p-nitroanilino)-2-pyrazoline-5-one
link :http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8835888

cyan :acylamino phenols
link :http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=02423730&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D2,423,730.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F2,423,730%2526RS%3DPN%2F2,423,730&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

patent :2423730

google patents :http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=7vJUAAAAEBAJ&dq=2423730

Umut,

It may be helpful to the Kodachrome community to share these links with Kittleagraphy on http://www.kodachromeproject.com/forum/showthread.php?t=674&page=4

He seems to have the only remaining K-Lab in the world, and the chemistry is the missing component.