90mm and 210mm lenses value for money recommendation for my new Chamonix - any new lenses made?

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sperera

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Hi all, sorry for yet another tedious question like this.....I have a 150mm so would like to complete the set with a 90mm and a 150mm.....what would you recommend I go for thats value for money.
Thank you and sorry for this boring question. Perhaps there are some fantastic new Chinese lenses that are killing it that I dont know of....
Stephen
 

BrianShaw

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Hi all, sorry for yet another tedious question like this.....I have a 150mm so would like to complete the set with a 90mm and a 150mm (sic) .....what would you recommend I go for thats value for money.
Thank you and sorry for this boring question. Perhaps there are some fantastic new Chinese lenses that are killing it that I dont know of....
Stephen

I don’t think there are any fantastic new killer LF lenses, Chinese or otherwise, that we don’t know of. :wink:

Best value, balancing both cost and quality, probably would be the old classics, like Schneider Super Angulon 90 and Symmar-S 210. Or the equivalent in Rodenstock or Fuji or Caltar. Those will be in modern shutters whereas some of the older options might not be. Lenses with Schneideritis will often be less expensive than lenses without, yet still be fantastic image makers. But older lenses/shutters might give something different that you’d like…

No matter, don’t forget to include the potential need for having shutters serviced in your budget.
 
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sperera

sperera

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I don’t think there are any fantastic new killer LF lenses, Chinese or otherwise, that we don’t know of. :wink:

Best value, balancing both cost and quality, probably would be the old classics, like Schneider Super Angulon 90 and Symmar-S 210. Or the equivalent in Rodenstock or Fuji or Caltar. Those will be in modern shutters whereas some of the older options might not be. Lenses with Schneideritis will often be less expensive than lenses without, yet still be fantastic image makers. But older lenses/shutters might give something different that you’d like…

No matter, don’t forget to include the potential need for having shutters serviced in your budget.
Thanks for the message will look into them
 

xkaes

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If you want a 90mm, you'll need to be more specific about the details you prefer. For example, Fuji made EIGHT 90mm Fujinon lenses to choose from, depending on shutter, size, weight, filter thread, maximum aperture, lens coating, lens design, angle of coverage, cost, etc. Saying, "I want a 90mm" is like saying "I prefer redheads". There's still a million to choose from:

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byfl.htm
 

chuckroast

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Hi all, sorry for yet another tedious question like this.....I have a 150mm so would like to complete the set with a 90mm and a 150mm.....what would you recommend I go for thats value for money.
Thank you and sorry for this boring question. Perhaps there are some fantastic new Chinese lenses that are killing it that I dont know of....
Stephen
I think you're asking about 210s and 90s not 150s if I read the context properly.
Also, assuming you're talking about 4x5 here.

For a 90mm, the Super Angulon f/5.6 is pretty much the first among equals. I don't have that exact lens but I do have two different versions of the 65mm (one for 4x5 and one for 2x3) and a 72mm XL and all are top tier performers.

I am quite fond of the 207mm (oops) 203mm f/7.7 Kodak Ektar and the 210mm f/6.8 Caltar-IIE.

Both are tack sharp and superb lenses once stopped down a bit. I'd give a slight nod to the Caltar (which is a rebranded Rodenstock) only because the shutter is almost certain to be newer.

I own both, but had to have the old Supermatic shutter redone on my Ektar because it was really in need of a good CLA.
 
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choiliefan

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Surprised Nikon hasn't been mentioned yet. Maybe too clinical in rendition?
I have a 210mm Nikkor-W in black Copal shutter which is a creamy-crispy fine "modern" lens.
 

abruzzi

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most 210s will require a copal 1 lens board, but don't worry, lens boards are cheap. I think the Chamonix uses linhof technika boards which are generally the most readily available.

for some reason, I have more ~210s than anything else. I'll second @chuckroast (thought he made a slight typo in the focal length) and highly reccoment the Kodak Ektar 203mm ƒ7.7. Its small and light and very sharp. They come in supermatic shutter and in compur shutter. I'd get a compur modelso it can be transplanted to a newer shutter if need be.

I am not much of a wide shooter, but I do lean toward smaller lenses. Unfortunately you either get a big lens with good coverage (Schneider Super Angulon, Rodenstock Grandagon, Nikkor SW, or Fuji SW), or you get a small lens with barely enough coverage--Schneider Angulon (not super), Kodak Wide Field Ektar (the 100mm because the 80mm won't cover 4x5). There are a few others that generally not thought terrible well of.
 

BrianShaw

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argh I should have mentioned I only have a Copal 0 lens board......

Buy/build lens board to fit the shutter. Don’t buy a shutter to fit the lens board. Lens boards are quite affordable :smile:
 

BrianShaw

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Surprised Nikon hasn't been mentioned yet. Maybe too clinical in rendition?
I have a 210mm Nikkor-W in black Copal shutter which is a creamy-crispy fine "modern" lens.

I almost mentioned Nikkor but didn’t since they tend to be more expensive than their counterparts. Some folks like that clinical sharpness.
 
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sperera

sperera

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Buy/build lens board to fit the shutter. Don’t buy a shutter to fit the lens board. Lens boards are quite affordable :smile:

of course thanks makes sense needless to see...its just a plate with a hole in it haha
 
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A quick primer on the types of lenses available in the focal lengths you are considering (with lots left out, or course, just the really salient points).

The most common 210mm lenses are Plasmat designs with f/5.6 maximum apertures. They are great performers and all take 67mm filters or thereabouts. Designations are Schneider Symmar (and successors, all with "Symmar" in the name), Rodenstock Sironar (et al.) and Nikkor and Fujinon W series. Some of us (me included) like more compact designs for the ~200mm focal length and look at lenses like the old Ektar 203mm, the Nikkor M series 200mm (rare now), the Schneider G-Clarons or Tessar design lenses like the Fujinon L series (not that much smaller than Plasmats) or even the slightly-wider Fujinon A series 180mm. These, being smaller, have smaller maximum apertures (~f/8), which makes ground-glass viewing a bit dimmer; a fine trade-off if you need small and lightweight. If you don't have an issue with the size of a 210mm Plasmat, they are always a good bet.

90mm lenses come in a few "families." The first are older 90mm lenses that just barely cover 4x5 like the Schneider Angulon lenses. More common, and much more useful if you need any movements at all are the wide-angle designs like the Schneider Super Angulon, Rodenstock Grandagon or the Nikkor and Fujinon SW series lenses. This last general category breaks down into two sub-families: the larger, heavier and brighter group, usually with maximum apertures of f/5.6 - f/4.5 and a smaller, lighter and dimmer group with maximum apertures around f/8 - f/6.8.

For example, there are Schneider Super Angulon 90mm lenses in f/5.6 with a large 82mm filter size and a Schneider Super Angulon f/8 lens (smaller) with a 67mm filter size. There are similar pairs in the Rodenstock Grandagon lenses (f/4.5 and f/6.8 respectively) and the Nikkor and Fujinon lines. The smaller versions of these lenses gnerally have smaller image circles, with the exception of the Nikkor 90mm f/8, which has an image circle as large as its larger cousin. Again, you need to weigh the parameters of size, coverage, brightness of viewing at maximum aperture, filter size, compactness, etc. to make an informed choice. Keep in mind that 90mm lenses often need recessed lens boards to get optimum movement capability on smaller folding field cameras and that the larger versions of these are a pretty tight fit in a recessed board. The camera(s) you are planning to use the lens on will help dictate whether you need a recessed board or not and then you can decide which size would work best in that scenario.

My personal direction has always been lightweight and compact. I do not own a 210mm Plasmat, rather some smaller lenses in that general focal length: I love my 203mm f/7.7 Ektar, but I've spent time adapting it to take 52mm filters instead of the push-on series filter adapter that was standard with it. I also have a Fujinon A 180mm (sweet and small) and a Fujinon L Tessar-design f/5.6, which is almost as large as a Plasmat, but takes smaller filters.

My 90mm lenses are both of the smaller wide-angle design: a Schneider 90mm Super Angulon f/8 that is really great, and a Nikkor 90mm SW f/8 that I got simply because I needed the bit larger image circle for architectural and city work. I keep this latter in my "city kit" along with my Fujinon A 180mm and the Fujinon L 210mm (surprising, but I often need them both in close quarters), a WF Ektar 135mm (again, for the larger image circle) and a 240mm Fujinon A (again, really small). My "field kit" has a 90mm Super Angulon f/8, a Plasmat 135mm f/5.6 lens (Nikkor or Schneider, I have a couple), the Ektar 203mm f/7.7 and a Nikkor M 300mm (again, fairly small with 52mm filters).

That's all just personal preference. Hopefully, though, I've given you some useful information along the way.

Best,

Doremus
 

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Doremus nailed it with that comment.

I just wanted to add that there are limitations imposed on your choice of lenses based on the dimensions and mechanics of your particular choice of camera.

Chamonix tends to have smaller front standards with a circular opening through which the rear element of your lens must fit. This could mean that certain lenses would be much more difficult to use in your setup, particularly wide aperture 90mm lenses with large image circles like the fujinon swd 90mm f/5.6.

You might also find that the fixed bellows of your camera interferes with the movements on wide angle lenses meaning that it might not be possible to take advantage of large image circles when you have your front and rear standards very near each other as necessitated by focusing to normal distances with a wide angle lens (i.e. not macro distances)
 

John Wiegerink

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I have a Chaminox 45N-2 and my kit is mostly for easy carry/light weight. I'm more inline with Doremus for lenses. My easy carry Kit is a 100mm Kodak Wide-Field Ektar, 135mm Schneider Symmar-S and the 203mm Kodak Ektar. I have other lenses that I use if I'm not traveling far and those are a 90mm f8 Super Angulon, Older 90mm Angulon (very small and uncoated), 135mm Fuji, 150mm Fuji, 210mm L Fuji, 180mm f9 A Fuji and 210mm f5.6 Schneider Simmer-S. I bought the 45N-2 for it being more compact and light weight than my other 4X5 cameras hence the reason for the small, lighter weight carry lenses. I find the camera to fit my needs perfectly and the lightweight lens kit goes great with that camera. I love Fuji large format lenses for three reasons, number one is most are smaller than other brands, two they cost less that most other brands and three they are sharp. I will add the Fuji 240mm f9 A lens to my kit someday, but I'm in no hurry at the moment. I can't speak to the other lenses mentioned here since I have not used them.
 
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sperera

sperera

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I ordered the (haven't received it yet!) Chamonix 45N-1. The entry level model. What a beautiful camera eh!? Also waiting for a Berlebach 'Report' 302 tripod (posted in another thread) to use with it. Function has to come dressed in style for me I'm afraid haha

I have a Sinar F2 with a Schneider Apo-Symmar f5.6 MC (Copal 0) 150mm lens (which I sill use with it obv.) but the camera is so bulky etc that its stopped me from going for it in 4 x 5. I always just grab my Hasselblads. That being said, I'm determined to get into 4 x 5 more now as I process BW and C41 myself.

Lens recommendations based on the Chamonix 'ergonomics' is a great bit of advice from you all thank you.
 

Ian Grant

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Doremus mentions the 203mm f7.7 Ektar, these are coated dialyte lenses, and they are excellent from Infinity to 1:1. They were sold for medical/dental, police & forensic, scientific, as well as general purpose use with Kodak's Specialist 2 Half plate cameras

Here in the UK/Europe they were made by Kodak Ltd, one advantage is they are all in standard Compur/Copal #0 sized shutters, the earliest in the Kodak Epsilon, later Prontor SVS, neither have a shutter preview lever, the Prontor SVS only has B - so you need a locking cable release, the Epsilon at least has a T setting. Very late versions were in a Compur #0.

If size/weight is an issue the 90mm f6.8 Anguulon is an excellent lens. I have one in my light weight kit.

Ian
 

BrianShaw

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I ordered the (haven't received it yet!) Chamonix 45N-1. The entry level model. What a beautiful camera eh!? Also waiting for a Berlebach 'Report' 302 tripod (posted in another thread) to use with it. Function has to come dressed in style for me I'm afraid haha

I have a Sinar F2 with a Schneider Apo-Symmar f5.6 MC (Copal 0) 150mm lens (which I sill use with it obv.) but the camera is so bulky etc that its stopped me from going for it in 4 x 5. I always just grab my Hasselblads. That being said, I'm determined to get into 4 x 5 more now as I process BW and C41 myself.

Lens recommendations based on the Chamonix 'ergonomics' is a great bit of advice from you all thank you.

Why not transplant that lens to a lensboard that will work on your new Chamonix? Or are you like me... multiple same/similar lenses on different lensboards are a reasonable option?

And, yes, it is a very beautiful camera with nice features. I just about choked at the price of a lensboard and then really choked at the price of the camera, You are truly wise and lucky to be able to own and use that instrument.
 
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